From the reading I've been doing, wobbly is better than stationery for smaller size pipes and shorter lengths. Leaving the cap off the top of the guard, if that's what you're asking, would not be a good idea - it would allow snakes to go straight up.
Louise
I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear ... I have the bottom of the pvc shoved into the dirt about 1 1/2", so if I put a cap on the top of the pvc (which the pole runs through) then the pvc wouldn't be "wobbly", right? So you're saying it's better to have the cap on than have the pvc be wobbly?
I understand what you're saying about the netting....thanks!
"Sometimes", said Pooh, "the smallest things take up the most room in your heart."
2023 - 82 pair
2022 - 80 pair
2021 - 75 pair
2020 - 78 pair
2019 - 80 pair http://kathyfreeze.blogspot.com
Okay, now I understand. Wobbly guards usually are supported at the top, so the bottom of the guard wobbles if a raccoon or snake tries to climb it. If the guard is buried in the ground the top has to be covered so birds can't get trapped inside the tube. It can happen when they are fighting.
I don't think a guard that is 30" tall will stop large raccoons, since the recommended height for guards is no less than 4 ft above the ground. Another idea for you (nooooo! says Kathy) would be a removable guard that's mounted well above the winch, as high as you are able to reach and remove it for nest checks. That's another design challenge since the tube portion needs to be seamed or split so you can take it off.
Otherwise, depending on how abundant raccoons are in your area, you could investigate an electric guard, or going with what you have, 6 inch PVC, but with the top capped and net guard above that.
We don't hear a lot on this Forum about raccoon predation but it sure happens, and is pretty destructive. Raccoons will sit on top of the house eating bird after bird. Signs of raccoon predation include finding severed martin wings on the ground and blood and fur on the house. They are strong enough to pull doors off and will return for more meals. So while we hear more about snakes, raccoons are a real threat too. A PVC guard stopped them on a bluebird house I had in PA - it was mounted up high and attached to a PVC cap mounted right below the house. Claw marks in the camo paint on the guard showed they had tried to get to the birds. I was glad the guard stopped them.
From the reading I've been doing, wobbly is better than stationery for smaller size pipes and shorter lengths. Leaving the cap off the top of the guard, if that's what you're asking, would not be a good idea - it would allow snakes to go straight up.
Louise
I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear ... I have the bottom of the pvc shoved into the dirt about 1 1/2", so if I put a cap on the top of the pvc (which the pole runs through) then the pvc wouldn't be "wobbly", right? So you're saying it's better to have the cap on than have the pvc be wobbly?
I understand what you're saying about the netting....thanks!
Kathy to make the PVC pipe wobbly you will need a large hose clamp or better yet a 1.5 to 2" pipe grounding clamp found at your local home depot or Lowes. Cut 6" PVC pipe to about 24+" and place a cap on the top portion of the PVC pipe. Cut a hole very close in size to the martin pole outer diameter. Attach 3 small screws to PVC cap so it wont fall off, now insert grounding clamp at about 4+ feet from the ground on martin pole and slide the PVC pipe and cap assembly through the martin pole so the PVC pipe cap assembly is held up by the ground clamp. Pipe should wobble when touched, the idea is that most climbing predators would be unable to climb the wobbly 24" pipe.
"We can judge the heart of man by his treatment of animals." - Immanual Kant.
Thanks for the response, Louise! Ok, I can see that I need to rethink my strategy with this new system. Hubby is going to start charging me for all the help.
Thanks, Julio - I didn't "get" the wobbly thing, but your desc. helps!
"Sometimes", said Pooh, "the smallest things take up the most room in your heart."
2023 - 82 pair
2022 - 80 pair
2021 - 75 pair
2020 - 78 pair
2019 - 80 pair http://kathyfreeze.blogspot.com
There are some other threads on pole guards that are active just now, but I thought a little reinforcement wouldn't hurt, so here is another reminder... don't gamble with your martins or other birdhouse tenants.
I have used 4in pvc pipe on my bluebird houses for about 15 years, had as many as 5 houses going, and I never had a snake get into them. I know that 4in pvc stops all the snakes at our house.
Location: Pennsylvania/Espyville/Pymatuning Reservoir Area
Martin Colony History: Taking care of 11 active public colonies and trying to start two more in northwestern PA. Also attempting to restart another one in southwestern PA, in Collier Township's Hilltop Park. In 2017, not sure what happened but the ASY male returned and then a couple of weeks later he was gone. It could have been weather related. No other birds showed up. I had a starling nesting at the Public site that I had trouble getting rid of. In 2018, we fledged 629 martins at all of the sites.
A lot of people get these popcorn cans for Christmas. It seems that something like that could also be used upside down. It's fairly thin metal, so it would be wobbly if anything tried to get around it.
Also, you have 6" and 8" round ductwork that can be used for predator guards with a cap or hardware cloth on the top of it.
This is a good topic.
I have also used a 4" pvc pipe on our bluebird and tree swallow boxes without a problem.
It's time to wake this thread up again - the best time to thing about pole guards, safety bolts, replacing worn ropes or cables, etc., is BEFORE the martins are nesting.
Netting will capture snakes, but won't stop raccoons. Baffles will stop raccoons if mounted at right height, and of right design. Baffles will stop some snakes, but larger ones, and we have plenty of those in TX, can bypass them at times. So many landlords mount a regular baffle with netting above it, to stop snakes that manage to get past the baffle.
Why do you say no raccoons, they are pretty common throughout the US? If you seen any dead in the roads in your area, you probably need to protect against both snakes and raccoons.
The sticky post, Basics for the start of the season, has links to articles and there's one on all types of baffles, including netting. You'll find more info in the archives section, and can also search for pole guard info here in the forum.
Louise,
Oh yes, I gambled lots of years gone by, but I quit some ten years ago. My profile states my experience and once I found this forum and got lots of help on predation I protect all I possibly can to preserve my colony. Thanks,
Keith
Sometimes I am glad I am OCD because there is no "gambling" here. Predator guards and snake netting are a must for me. I hear the raccoon thumping on the deck in the middle of the night and have caught several snakes in the netting.
I compare it with human friends we invite to our home....we want them to be happy and comfortable and of course, safe. Inviting martins in our backyard is the same for me.....I want them here so I need to make sure they are taking care off. They also have their own freezer in the garage.....filled with crickets and worms...lol.
I can only think of one good reason for not installing a predator/snake guard. That is if you are constipated. Looking into or reaching into a nest box and finding a big snake will instantly cure your constipation problem. Might lead to a nasty fall too.
Louise, sorry for the vulgarity I just couldn't resist the temptation.
Bill
THE MORE ONE LEARNS THE MORE ONE SEES! While the ignorant person sees only a blackbird the enlightened person sees a Purple Martin.
2010- 2 pr. 6 fledged, + many visitors
2011- 20 pr. 75 fledged,
2012- 35 pr. 143 fledged
2013- 37 pr. 153 fledged
2014- 40 pr. 198 fledged
2015- 40 pr. 183 fledged
2016- 42 pr. 189 Fledged
I have a 6 foot wood fence and I set my pole about 1 foot back from my fence when I initially put up the house 5 years ago in order to place the martin house as far as possible away from my house -- I have a pretty small lot. I didn't think about snakes at that time.
Until last year, the only problems I've had have been HOSPs and Starlings, which I've managed to control pretty effectively. Late last season, though, I discovered a rat snake about 5 feet long crawling along the top stringer of my fence, trying to get to the pole. There were no martins left in the house at the time, just a couple HOSPs trying to build a nest, but I harassed the snake until it dropped off the fence and slithered off. (Texas rat snakes are really disagreeable buggers!) It came back for two days before it decided to stay away. Meanwhile, I closed up the house.
Any ideas on keeping snakes away without moving the house back, or should I bite the bullet and just move it back? If so, how far should it be from the fence? If I put netting on the pole as recommended by many, it will interfere with nest checking because it will have to be placed a couple feet above the top of the fence (8 feet above the ground) to be effective. I'm expecting returning martins any time now here in my corner of the Metroplex.
Time to wake up this thread again - we don't want any new landlords to go through the heartbreak of losing their martins (or bluebirds, etc.) to snakes or raccoons.
Mr. Rockford, very sorry your question did not get a reply. We have same issue here, our poles are close enough to our fence that a snake could easily reach from fence to pole. We have removable guards mounted up as high as we can reach, and live in city in pretty snake-free habitat, ditto raccoons - but we use guards anyway. Squirrels love to travel along the fence and the martins strafe them - a squirrel can climb a metal pole, and would eat eggs/nestlings - so those baffles still have a job to do.
Folks, please don't rely on metal poles, grease, or thinking 'happy thoughts' to keep your birds safe. Search for and read newer threads about electric guards, too.
I use to never have guards on my poles. Nothing happen. But I have them now. However last year my 4 year old climbed up on his power wheel while I went inside for a second and broke tree swallow eggs. They built a nest in another box without a guard. And a coon got those eggs. So I don't gamble with them anymore or any bird I attract to my property. Because it will happen. Best not to learn the hard way. While we are waiting for them all to return let's be ready!
It's that time of year, time to bring this reminder back up.
We just heard from a landlord who usually has birds back by now, but so far this year, nothing. They wondered if the weather was holding the martins back, but then shared a photo of fat rat snake they found inside one of their houses last year. They did not have guards in place, but going to add them now. Hopefully the houses that produced young will have some adult martins again.
Build them or buy them, but make sure you have guards on all your birdhouse poles. In areas with large rat snakes (southern US especially but also NJ, PA - okay pretty much everywhere), rural sites especially might want to use a baffle for raccoons (stovepipe style) and netting above that, for snakes that bypass the baffle.
Last edited by Louise Chambers on Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Louise - Thanks for putting this up again. Whenever I talk to people about the Martins I always bring this up. The snakes have been my biggest issue - every year - they are here. I always tell people you may not see them and don't think you have them, but they are there. The bird netting has worked best for me.
Martin Colony History: Started in 1992 From neighbors old 1950-60's colonies. Have 8 Trio 6 Room Houses, 4 MPP Poles, 1 Heath Deluxe Gourd with Troyer Porch, 8 NatureLine Gourds with Troyer Porches, 5 Troyer Horizontals ,& 2 S&K 11" WITH Troyer Porches ready for 2019 Season !
I use those white or yellow paint/ industrial kitchen product plastic buckets, that are 11"+ wide ( Mayo smells less ! ) upside down with the wire handles removed, 2 per pole. On my three sect. Poles, I make the holes wide enough for the bottom pole with a auto clamp to hold up. I have now gone thru the trouble of cutting them in half Vertical wise & bolted 2 hinges on one side & 1 or 2 latches on the other. I've modified some for the square poles I use to replace the round ones. Some, I have taped together on top of each other. Some plastic Cat litter buckets will work also ! With 4 poles in a row, My yard looks like a Ghostly Boat is going to be moored there in a foggy night!
PMCA Member, 8 Trio 6 Room Houses, 1 Heath Deluxe Gourd with Troyer Porch, 8 NatureLine Gourds with Troyer Porches, 5 Troyer Horizontals + Tunnels, & 2 S&K Bo 11"s WITH Troyer Porches ! 4 MPPs, For 2019 Season !! Started in 1992 from Older '50-'60s Colonies.
because there is no "gambling" here. Predator guards and snake netting are a must for me. I hear the raccoon thumping on the deck in the middle of the night and have caught several snakes in the netting.
Might lead to a nasty fall too.
Started in 1992 from Older '50-'60s Colonies.