FYI for old sevin dust users

[Martintown33]

This is for old formula sevin dust users , such as myself.. I discovered a mite bloom in one of my gourds during a nest check yesterday. I first treated the gourds and house compartments, as I always do with about 1/8 tsp before pre nesting. Then retreated when eggs were laid. Then did final treatment when chicks are about 5 days old.. and I still had this mite bloom. I retreated yesterday after discovering the mites.l I checked today… still lots of mites.. I quickly did research and found out that sevin dust loses its potency after 3 to 4 years in the bottle.. when kept in dark dry place, as my bottle was. My bottle is 4 years old.. and obviously no longer affective.. I purchased gardstar poultry dust.. chicken farmers use it to keep mites from the pens and chickens and is as “safe” as sevin.. maybe safer.. just wanted to let y’all know if you’re using sevin dust older than 3 to 4 years , it may be losing its potency as mine obviously has..
Good luck
Rob

[Thomas Maddox]

Thank you for sharing. Pretty sure mine is at least that old.

[Conrad Baker]

Mine too. I only have three houses, so a pound of Sevin lasts a long time. Also, dampness can reduce the effectiveness, so if the birds were active in the rain and returned to the houses, that might cause problems. It makes you wonder what the birds do against mites in the wild when they don't have us to care for them? Do they just abandon the nests? The mites have to be a problem there also??

[Martintown33]

Hi Thomas and Conrad. I checked the nests for wetness, they are bone dry as I modified my gourds and houses to be water tight. So I don’t think moisture was the cause. But Conrad, it is possible that the soaking wet parents going in and out in the rains we had a couple of weeks ago, could have got the sevin damp.. no other gourds or house compartments has mites.. I retreated the infected gourd with the new stuff and checked today. The infected gourd is just about mite free now. Just a few stragglers but I’m sure they will die also. As far as how birds in the wild deal with mites. I’ve often wondered that myself. I do not know the answer to that. Possibly because most birds are not communal and nest in a single nest. Where martins have connected housing.. but, wild birds obviously don’t all abandon because they’re wouldn’t be any birds left!! I think for Martin landlords , it’s a preventative measure to keep fledglings from jumping early due to mite infestation. I think the mite infestation has to be really bad for parents to abandon.. but very good question! As far as the old sevin, I agree … my 1lb bottle still had a lot left, even after 4 years… but everything I read, says it has a shelf life of 3 to 4 years, if it was never opened, and 1 to 3 years , if opened, but recapped and kept in a cool dry place.. I’m going to it play it safe and just start buying a new bottle every 1 to 2 years. It doesn’t cost much, and mite blooms suck! Especially cleaning them up! So it’s worth it to me to just spend the $9 for a new bottle every season..
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

Rob,
What are you going to use instead of sevin? Iv one full can and a bit left...well never find it again.

Found on AG Gardens (think its gardens): Garden Insect Dust Permethrin Insecticide. Bought 3 pounds. Same amount of the active ingredient as in sevin.

[Martintown33]

Hi tom. I’m going to use the gardstar poultry dust. Its active ingredient is permethrin , which is said to be safer than carbaryl. Chicken farmers dust their chickens with it… actually put it directly on them, to control mites.. also dust their pens with it.. I believe It will need to be reapplied more often than the carbaryl 5% (Sevin) but not much choice without the old Sevin. I found some carbaryl 5% from southern agricultural online.. but it seems expensive.
.. but the bottom line is.. whatever you use, according to everything I’ve read, is that all powdered pesticides lose their potency , once they have been opened, after 1 to 3 years. Is this a ploy to get people to buy more?!! I don’t know. But what’s $9 every season to buy a new bottle. Not worth the risk to me. Treating mite infestation sucks! lol!
I did find this online … it’s 5% carbaryl dust … same as (Sevin) but on back order til January 2025. It’s at seed ranch.. their phone number is in the screen shot photo.
Check photo:
Rob

IMG_2791.png

(868.83 KiB) Not downloaded yet

[brent]

I’m using the Sevin and it’s about 3 years old. Haven’t seen mites. Let me know how poultry dust works for you. Where do you get it? I’ll need a new supply for next season for sure. I did a nest check today and everything looked fine. When you discovered the mite infestation what did you do to get it under control? Nest change then poultry dust? Brent

[John Miller]

The product marketed as "Sevin" by Garden Tech no longer contains carbaryl 5%. I'm referring to the dust (not liquid form) in a canister. Carbaryl is highly effect against mites (with active mites, apply about 1/8 teaspoon "indirectly" under or at sides of nests and mites are gone in 24 hours) . Carbaryl degrades quickly when exposed to humidity. That's a good thing, because it probably makes it less likely than some pesticides to cause harm to birds. Regardless, one should be careful... Personally I only treat if I see mites, usually when babies are 10-`15 days.

The current canisters of "Sevin" contain Permethrin. It may be equally effective against mites. It may be the main pesticide in "poultry dust," but we'd need to confirm. I am concerned it may not break down quickly and could pose more risk -- suggest being very careful. As with Carbaryl, maybe use tiny amount "indirectly" if mites are seen, but not as a pre-season tactic. If one put it under nests preseason and the momma bird was swirling the nest to form it, she might well inhale the stuff. Surely not good.

Ultimately the PMCA does not recommend any pesticide, rather nest changes.

[Martintown33]

Hey Brent. I got the poultry dust on Amazon. But tractor supply sells it.. other places too. To treat the mite infestation I decided to try this route first: since the babies are 21 days old, I didn’t want stress them out too much.. so I didn’t want to remove them and do a complete nest change so I tried this first. If plan A didn’t work then I was going to do a complete nest change.
I covered the babies up with a hand towel and lightly sprayed the inside walls and ceilings of the gourd and outside of gourd with avian insect liquidator, diluted to the correct amount as stated on the bottle. This solution is used by pet bird owners to spray the insides of their cages and directly onto their pet birds for mite control. Even with that being said, I didn’t want it to get directly on the young birds so I covered them up so none would get on them. Once it dried in a couple minutes, I took the towel off the birds and retreated “under” the nest with the dust… I repeated spraying the inside walls on the second day, covering the chicks up with a hand towel, again, til it dried. There were just a few straggler mites left on the the third day when I checked. I’m hoping they will all be gone by today. There is a place in Florida that I found online, that sells carbaryl 5% dust (Sevin) but it’s made by a different company, southern Ag.. I’m going to call them today and will post back what I find out.
Rob

[Martintown33]

Hi to all on this topic... I called the manufacturer that produces 5% carbaryl dust.. Southern Agriculture..they told me that it is very hard to manufacture this anymore as the epa wants to phase carbaryl out completely. They gave me several retail outlets to call, but they are all sold out, and say it’s going to be very difficult to get anymore in, as the manufacturer isn’t able to produce it.. I was hoping to be able to use my 4 year old bottle of sevin for a few more years, but as I’ve been researching , it loses its potency after 3 to 4 years.. so it looks like we’re going to have to start using something else. I’m going to use the gardstar poultry dust ( permethrin) , along with the avian insect liquidator solution, going forward.. I guess we will all find out together how effective the new stuff will be..
Is anybody using permethrin? If so are you getting good results?
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

https://seedbarn.com/products/garden-in ... 4767779940

Hey Rob,
Phil and I found this. Iv ordered 2 bottles.

[Martintown33]

Hi Tom.. Thanks. Yes, I’ve seen that product. It’s permethrin. The poultry dust I bought is permethrin. It looks like that is what we’re going to have to use. Carbaryl is out of existence for all intents and purposes.
Rob

[brent]

Why wouldn’t you use the Sevin that contains permethrin? Brent

[Martintown33]

Hi Brent.
I believe the above post about new Sevin containing permethrin is incorrect. I have a bottle of the new Sevin … the ingredients does not list permethrin, but bifenthren.
… the product that tom posted contains permethrin and can be ordered online from seed farm..
Rob

[Conrad Baker]

https://seedbarn.com/products/garden-in ... 4767779940

Hey Rob,
Phil and I found this. Iv ordered 2 bottles.

Do you think this would be safe for the Martins? It has several warnings on the label, and I couldn't read the entire label but it said nothing about applying directly to a bird or animal. It does say it is harmful to inhale, and you should wash any clothing that comes in contact with the dust. It seems like it is designed for garden use, and should be applied "to both sides of the leaf". The livestock/poultry dust does say it is safe to apply directly to the chickens/animals, so I would feel safer using it in the compartments.. Lately I have been using "Hy-Yield Garden and Pet Dust". It comes in a yellow and red container, and has a picture of a dog on the front. I got it from my local garden center. Cost was about $11.00. It says it is effective on fleas, mites, etc. Contains Permethrin.

[Martintown33]

Hi Conrad. The warnings on the permethrin dust are the same as on the old 5%Sevin dust we’ve been using. So I don’t think that is a factor. But I do agree , the poultry dust, you mentioned, has warnings that say the poultry dust is safer, even though it has the same ingredient, permethrin… The insect dust tom posted has .25% Permethrin … the same amount as the poultry dust you’re using, so I don’t know why there’s a difference in warnings.. it could be because the poultry dust isn’t sold for use on food (vegetable gardens) , while the insect dust is .. it’s possible the epa requires more strict warnings on products sold for use on food, but I don’t know that for certain.
Rob

[Conrad Baker]

Yea, I don't know why either. If you don't want to lose your colony to mites, you have to do something a little more aggressive than nest change as the PMCA recommends. It seems to me if you remove the nest and replace it with a clean nest, the compartment and birds are still infested with mites. There is nothing to kill them or reduce their numbers. I believe caution and a light hand with the Sevin (or similar) will control them.

[Martintown33]

Agree 100% Conrad. In my opinion, Nests changes alone won’t control mites . Light use of a relatively safe pesticide, placed “under” the nest, so direct contact isn’t made, is the only way, that I can see. It’s been working well for all of us. My only caveat, is to make the first pre nest application very light, and only on the side of compartment, so the female doesn’t make contact with it when she’s swirling and moving the pre nest material, when she begins nest building. Then use a 1/8 tsp after nest is completed or when eggs are laid. Then a final 1/8 tsp under the nest when chicks are about 5 days old. That’s my routine , anyway.
Rob

[Martintown33]

Man, I miss the old sevin dust already! The gourd I treated with new sevin dust 4 days ago (while waiting for the permethrin poultry dust to come in), still has some mites in it.. it has improved a lot, but still seeing a few.. but the adjacent gourds that I treated with the new sevin, now have mites also. Obviously the new sevin doesn’t have the knockdown power as the old carbaryl sevin..
P.S. I think I know where the mites are coming from.. my neighbor , about 1/3 mile from me has an unattended s and k house. Never been cleaned out or anything. When I drive by , I see 2 Martin pairs nesting there. I see them fly over and land on my perch rods and scratch and preen… probably dropping mites onto the gourds right below the perch rods.. I guess I’m going to have to ask him if I can start tending to his house, because I know for sure he won’t.. gotta fight hawks, HOSPS, starlings, mites, and now negligent humans!!!
Rob

[Martintown33]

Glad to say, it looks like the mites in the 3 infected gourds are finally clearing up. Just fyi.. I was able to do it without a nest change out.. (the mature young were 22 days and older and I didn’t want to completely remove them at this age) .. by re-dusting on the first site of infestation, (luckily I caught it early).. and then wiping the walls and ceilings of the gourds, with bird safe avian insect liquidator, soaked on a rag, for 5 consecutive days, as the mites were crawling all over the walls and ceilings. It’s always amazing to me, how calm the martins inside, remain. They trust completely. No other wild birds trust their caretakers, like these birds do. It’s a very special relationship that only Martin landlords can understand. And what makes these birds so special. Hopefully I don’t get another bloom!!
Rob