After 7 years of trying I finally had a pair nest, lay eggs and 4 out of the of 5 eggs hatched. On June 18th upon nest check, the female was still sitting on eggs, nest check on June 24th we had 4 babies. Everything has been going great with the babies they had been sticking their heads out the hole griping on the the edge of the gourd the last 2 days.
This morning the adults had been busy feeding. Did a nest check later in the afternoon and the nest was empty. My concern is that it seems far to early for them to be leaving the nest being only aprox. 16 to 21 days since they hatched. Checked the surrounding ground and found nothing.
Any input would be appreciated.
Noodle
Fledgling Concerned....
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John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
How discouraging for you. It seems odd you would have babies in the morning and not in the afternoon. I'm wondering if they have been "jumping" because of mites, and suggest checking the cavity closely.
There are many potential predator problems, and here's an article on clues
http://www.purplemartin.org/update/BecomSleuth.html ...but just disappearing the afternoon is unusual, and yes, they were too young to be ready to fledge.
John Miller,
St. Louis, Mo
There are many potential predator problems, and here's an article on clues
http://www.purplemartin.org/update/BecomSleuth.html ...but just disappearing the afternoon is unusual, and yes, they were too young to be ready to fledge.
John Miller,
St. Louis, Mo
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Guest
John,
Thanks for the reply, but respectfully don't want to believe the analysis (tho in the real world, you are probably correct).
The gourd rack is in the middle of a large yard with nothing within 35- 60 feet all around. The grass is flat and mowed short. I have very closely inspected the entire area twice and found absolutely nothing...I mean nothing. Not a feather, not a piece of anything...just lawn. The inside of the nest is perfectly intact and undisturbed....but....when we inspected the interior, we did find mites this time. Based on our nest checks, the mites weren't evident 2 days before they all disappeared. We are fairly certain that it is a very new problem.
For the record, we believe that the disappearing act occurred on the 20th or 21st day after hatching. The mother and father have been unbelieveably attentive, working like clockwork to feed these kids. I mean they would work dawn to dusk, one in, one out, bringing food back in 3 - 5 minute shifts. The weather has been 85 - 95 degrees, with no inclement weather, but we live 600 feet from a swampy area so the bugs are plentiful. My point: if an ideal situation for accelerated maturity existed, their diet would qualify.
The morning that we last saw them (and the day prior), they were very agressive at the hole, putting their talons over the edge and hanging halfway out as if they were ready to go, but waiting for the right time. IS IT POSSIBLE that they really were mature enough and the mites chased them out? If not, why is there zero evidence of a stuggle on the surrounding ground? I suppose the bottom line is: would it be a miracle to fledge at 21 days?
Thx,
Noodle
Thanks for the reply, but respectfully don't want to believe the analysis (tho in the real world, you are probably correct).
The gourd rack is in the middle of a large yard with nothing within 35- 60 feet all around. The grass is flat and mowed short. I have very closely inspected the entire area twice and found absolutely nothing...I mean nothing. Not a feather, not a piece of anything...just lawn. The inside of the nest is perfectly intact and undisturbed....but....when we inspected the interior, we did find mites this time. Based on our nest checks, the mites weren't evident 2 days before they all disappeared. We are fairly certain that it is a very new problem.
For the record, we believe that the disappearing act occurred on the 20th or 21st day after hatching. The mother and father have been unbelieveably attentive, working like clockwork to feed these kids. I mean they would work dawn to dusk, one in, one out, bringing food back in 3 - 5 minute shifts. The weather has been 85 - 95 degrees, with no inclement weather, but we live 600 feet from a swampy area so the bugs are plentiful. My point: if an ideal situation for accelerated maturity existed, their diet would qualify.
The morning that we last saw them (and the day prior), they were very agressive at the hole, putting their talons over the edge and hanging halfway out as if they were ready to go, but waiting for the right time. IS IT POSSIBLE that they really were mature enough and the mites chased them out? If not, why is there zero evidence of a stuggle on the surrounding ground? I suppose the bottom line is: would it be a miracle to fledge at 21 days?
Thx,
Noodle
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John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
Noodle
I'm somewhat just bouncing this back up -- doubtful fledglings could make it at 21 days -- maybe an expert will chime in. My thought is that if they jumped, they may have flown just enough to get out of the yard -- but would need to get to treetops for parents to feed them.
Some mites are common and I can't determine whether they were numerous enough to cause early fledging -- but well might have in a few days.
Are there any crows around that might have pulled them out? Sometimes crows are abundant in surburban areas and take a lot of songbird babies from open nests, but usually can't get to martin nestlings.
We may never know. I'm hoping the adult pair will feel that their nest progressed to the point that they were successful, and they'll return to the site next season -- and may lead "visitors" in for a look in coming weeks.
John Miller,
St. Louis, Mo
I'm somewhat just bouncing this back up -- doubtful fledglings could make it at 21 days -- maybe an expert will chime in. My thought is that if they jumped, they may have flown just enough to get out of the yard -- but would need to get to treetops for parents to feed them.
Some mites are common and I can't determine whether they were numerous enough to cause early fledging -- but well might have in a few days.
Are there any crows around that might have pulled them out? Sometimes crows are abundant in surburban areas and take a lot of songbird babies from open nests, but usually can't get to martin nestlings.
We may never know. I'm hoping the adult pair will feel that their nest progressed to the point that they were successful, and they'll return to the site next season -- and may lead "visitors" in for a look in coming weeks.
John Miller,
St. Louis, Mo
Last edited by John Miller on Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Laverne
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:58 pm
- Location: TX/Alvin
- Martin Colony History: Erected 1st house in 1997. Birds were checking it out before Mike got down from the ladder. Six cavities had a little colony 1st year. Grown to 88 cavities all gourds with near 100% occupancy. Most important factor for success is rain = bugs.
Hello Noodle and John.
I ain't no pro - but, I'll give you my opinion. First a question... are the parents bringing the young back to the nest each night? This is normal behavior for Purple Martins. If you are not seeing any activity at your site - then something happened... and I am certain it wasn't fledging...
No, a 21 day old Purple Martin could not fledge and be so advanced that it never even returned to the natal nest cavity at night. The PMCA states that fledging can occur anywhere from 26 - 32 days. I have never had a nest fledge at 26 days. Most often it is 28 -30 days for my colony.
All they would be capable of at 21 days is little flutters at ground level. Their feathers are not long enough to carry their weight. They would not get far if they were on the ground.
The fact that you find no evidence (feathers, blood, etc...) leads me to a snake. Unless you have humans around your place that might take the young from their nest.
I am sorry for the loss of your Purple Martins. I hate to see anything happen to even one PM. But, rather than hoping for a miraculous fledging event - I would be trying to determine what happened to them. The truth is you may never know...
I ain't no pro - but, I'll give you my opinion. First a question... are the parents bringing the young back to the nest each night? This is normal behavior for Purple Martins. If you are not seeing any activity at your site - then something happened... and I am certain it wasn't fledging...
No, a 21 day old Purple Martin could not fledge and be so advanced that it never even returned to the natal nest cavity at night. The PMCA states that fledging can occur anywhere from 26 - 32 days. I have never had a nest fledge at 26 days. Most often it is 28 -30 days for my colony.
All they would be capable of at 21 days is little flutters at ground level. Their feathers are not long enough to carry their weight. They would not get far if they were on the ground.
The fact that you find no evidence (feathers, blood, etc...) leads me to a snake. Unless you have humans around your place that might take the young from their nest.
I am sorry for the loss of your Purple Martins. I hate to see anything happen to even one PM. But, rather than hoping for a miraculous fledging event - I would be trying to determine what happened to them. The truth is you may never know...
Sincerely,
Laverne
Laverne
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Guest
crows....
I did see crows sit on top of a purple martin octagonal house, reach over, and pull out baby martins. this site had been active for years. the site was abandoned by martins. they never returned to stay.
probably not what happened to you, but just passing on the observation.
sharon
I did see crows sit on top of a purple martin octagonal house, reach over, and pull out baby martins. this site had been active for years. the site was abandoned by martins. they never returned to stay.
probably not what happened to you, but just passing on the observation.
sharon
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Guest
Thanks all for the input.
We have very few crows these days and I have never seen one near the yard and gourd area. We do have starlings, sparrows, and some grackles. It was a very strange day that this all occurred. We saw normal feeding activity all morning, then we left the area for about 1 - 2 hours. After that time, we came back to note that there was zero activity; nothing in or out. After 3 or 4 more hours, we dropped the gourd and found total abandonment. We have seen zero activity since. We use the white plastic gourds with the oval holes. There has been extremely few attempts to even inspect the housing by the starlings and/or sparrows. In the 8 years we have lived there, the only 3 or 4 snakes we have seen are 18" - 24" long garter snakes. We use a substantial baffle on the pole. We do have some farm cats in the area, but I still scratch my head that all 4 would disappear without a trace within such a short period. For the record, there was also fairly regular activity by at least 2 other subbies that would flit and roost for a couple of hours in the morning.....this has also ceased.
We have very few crows these days and I have never seen one near the yard and gourd area. We do have starlings, sparrows, and some grackles. It was a very strange day that this all occurred. We saw normal feeding activity all morning, then we left the area for about 1 - 2 hours. After that time, we came back to note that there was zero activity; nothing in or out. After 3 or 4 more hours, we dropped the gourd and found total abandonment. We have seen zero activity since. We use the white plastic gourds with the oval holes. There has been extremely few attempts to even inspect the housing by the starlings and/or sparrows. In the 8 years we have lived there, the only 3 or 4 snakes we have seen are 18" - 24" long garter snakes. We use a substantial baffle on the pole. We do have some farm cats in the area, but I still scratch my head that all 4 would disappear without a trace within such a short period. For the record, there was also fairly regular activity by at least 2 other subbies that would flit and roost for a couple of hours in the morning.....this has also ceased.
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Guest
I don't know what to think...unless they jumped because of parasites???? the cats wouldn't climb a steel pole. Louise Chambers told me in easter Wisconsin I didn't have to worry about snakes...she said we don't get rat snakes.....but that they could be a problem in south western Wisconsin.
Don't know which side of the state you live on.
So sorry you lost your birds.
Don't know which side of the state you live on.
So sorry you lost your birds.