Why I don’t have Martins back?

Tommy Coley · Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:15 pm

This will be my 2nd. Year with my colony. I had 20 pairs last year & fledgling 38 babies. I had 1 set back in 1 nest, had a black snake. He eat 2 babies, I caught him in time before he could get more & got rid of him. I fixed the problem & had no more problems. Now I’m wondering will I have to start over or will they come back. I know some landlords in my area have there’s back this year. I have not even seen a Martin so far. Thanks. First time landlord.

SSMartin · Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:41 pm

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deancamp · Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:57 pm

With 20 pair, that is a very low fledgling rate. Did you have other problems? The birds from older colonies will come back sooner than newer ones, that could be the case with yours. What date did they arrive at your place last year? I can't imagine if a snake got in one nest and you had 19 other successful pair that none would return.

Tommy Coley · Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:40 pm

I forgot to mention I did have 2 babies that got out of the nest and drowned in a rain storm. No other problem. I didn’t think to look at when I got them last year but it was 4-2-20. I may be getting ahead of my self but I’ve been watching the migration chart where some are getting birds up to 2 weeks early.Then I thought about the snake & maybe that’s why they are not here. I think I need to be more patient & it will be ok. Thanks for your input Dean.

brent · Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:07 pm

Tommy, did the snake by pass your baffle guard (pole guard) or did you have one?
Brent

Tommy Coley · Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:18 pm

I had a 6inch pvc pipe around my square pole. There was a crack between the pvc pipe & my post. It was about 1|2 in. hole & he slipped through. I changed that pipe to a 5 gal. bucket upside down. Hope none gets buy it . Will be checking closely this time if they come back.

brent · Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:33 pm

Tommy, I haven't had a problem with snakes but just ordered some bird netting for a snake guard. I found a post on snake guards after searching. Looks easy to make so I'm going to do it.
Brent

dsonyay · Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:15 am

You had too many pairs for all of them to not come back due to a snake. Id expect a few to reappear soon

Whippy · Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:25 am

Tommy Coley wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:40 pm
I may be getting ahead of my self but I’ve been watching the migration chart where some are getting birds up to 2 weeks early.Then I thought about the snake & maybe that’s why they are not here. I think I need to be more patient & it will be ok. Thanks for your input Dean.

Hey, Tommy.

For the previous years I also did this. I'd see Martins on the arrival map all around me and even North of me yet, I did not have Martins. So I worry myself to death and look to make any "un-needed" adjustments and so on. Then, out of nowhere, I'm covered up in Martins. I have 2 pair now who are 2 weeks early. I had 15 pairs last year - a jump from 4 pairs the year before - so I'm expecting big numbers within the next few weeks. I am worried about the cold snap we had and if it did or did not consume any of my returning Martins. I obviously was elated to have these 2 pair arrive so I keep looking up for the others.

But I feel ya. It's hard to see others returning all around you especially when you know you had predation the year before. I'd be going crazy but I believe if you are patient you will be just fine.

Good luck to you.

Coolwhips

Tommy Coley · Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:43 am

Hey Whippy, Thanks for your input on my post. This will be my 2nd. Year with Martins. Still trying to understand how they work. One more question, do you think a 5 gal. bucket upside down on my post will work for a snake guard? Or do you think they can get past it.

Whippy · Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:43 am

Tommy Coley wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:43 am
Hey Whippy, Thanks for your input on my post. This will be my 2nd. Year with Martins. Still trying to understand how they work. One more question, do you think a 5 gal. bucket upside down on my post will work for a snake guard? Or do you think they can get past it.

I personally don't have an issue with snakes in my area. However, based on what I've read here over the last 6 years, having a predator guard such as the bucket you are asking about in addition to the snake netting is certainly recommended. The netting apparently works very well and having the back up of the bucket I think would allow you to relax a little and not worry so much. Just added protection from both snakes and other predators such as raccoons, opossums etc.

On thing about most climbing snakes is they don't need a whole lot of foothold to advance. You wonder how they can climb a shiny metal pole. But they do very easily. A 5 gallon bucket with raised edges might give them something to hang on to. A 5 gallon bucket with smooth edges would give them less to hang on to. These edges I'm speaking about are the lips used to snap and hold a lid on the bucket. I think the large diameter of the bucket will limit the snakes ability to reach out away from the pole and get around it but it also depends on how long the snake is and what its reach limitations are.

I suggest learning the characteristics, capabilities and limitations of your particular species and then formulate a deterrent plan accordingly.

Good luck to you.

Coolwhips

deancamp · Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:49 pm

It is recommended for a predator guard to be at a height of 4' off the ground and the guard itself 2' long and at least 6" in diameter. I made some diy ones from furnace duct work. Look at the ones for sale on this site and model them after that.

flyin-lowe · Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:53 pm

Couple things, having 20 pair your first year is pretty rare. Did you keep any notes or do any nest checks? With 20 pair and only 38 fledged that is less then 2 per nest. You should be doubling that if things go as normal. I'm assuming you were doing nest checks since you know how many fledged. How many eggs per nest did you have? If you had all SY's last year than you could expect them to arrive quite a bit earlier this year as ASY's. If you had some ASY's last year than they will likely arrive close to the same time as last year maybe a week or so earlier.
I would be curious to hear about how many eggs you had etc. and why you didn't fledge that many. Could be something other than the snake causing problems.

Tommy Coley · Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:37 pm

Hey Flyin-low, I didn’t have anything else going on in my nestings. I had several SY’s nesting that only layed 1pr2 eggs & never hatched. I did nest checks 2 times a week. Some started nest & never layed any eggs don’t know why. I tried to keep close check on everything. 2020 was my first year having Martins. One reason I may have done this well is my neighbor about a mile down the road didn’t put up as many gourds as he had been. Some of his may have come to mine. I am putting up different snake guards now & bird netting. I really want to make it work for me & my Martins. Thanks Tommy.

Whippy · Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:20 pm

Tommy,

One thing that hasn't been discussed to this point is the possibility of parasites. Probably not discussed because you had an upper hand on them and they weren't a problem. But, if not treated, parasites can also cause a lot of baby mortality. Just wanted to point that out at the risk of stepping on your toes.

Coolwhips

Tommy Coley · Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:00 pm

Whippy, I put Seven Dust in all my gourds & Houses. The best I could tell I kept the bird mites under control. I did have a ASY male stop by a week and a half ago. He stayed around for about 15 minutes and left. Have not seen any more here. My neighbor has a few of his back but he has a older colony. I still like about 2 weeks of it being when they came last year. When it’s closer to then & there not here I’ll start to worry for sure. Tommy

Tommy Coley · Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:23 pm

Whippy. I was trying to get back with you on your last post. Don’t know what happened it didn’t post. I put seven Dust in all my gourds & nest boxes. I think I kept the bird mites under control. I had 1 ASY Male stop a week and a half ago he stayed a few minutes & away he went. He has not been back & no others.My friend a mile away has some of his but he has an older colony. I still have about 2 weeks before they came last year so I’ll just wait. If not then I’ll start to worry. Thanks for your input Tommy.

Whippy · Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:38 pm

Actually it did post.

Like I said I was probably mentioning something you had already taken care of but you ever know. I've read of colonies not being dusted and they have lost many, many young as a result so I just thought of it as a possibility.

So at his point I'm at a loss. Can you post a photo of your site?

Coolwhips

jasalva · Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:11 am

A couple years ago I had a black snake problem. We had a baffle from Troyers and snake netting above it. After the snake invaded our gourds, we placed the netting abundantly on top of the baffle AND abundantly under the baffle. Last year there was no problem. We had Martins for some time at two locations, both by water. We never had the snake problem before. I have new respect for Rat snakes, beware they are clever and tenacious!

Tommy Coley · Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:51 pm

jasalva wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:11 am
A couple years ago I had a black snake problem. We had a baffle from Troyers and snake netting above it. After the snake invaded our gourds, we placed the netting abundantly on top of the baffle AND abundantly under the baffle. Last year there was no problem. We had Martins for some time at two locations, both by water. We never had the snake problem before. I have new respect for Rat snakes, beware they are clever and tenacious!

After your snake problem did your Martins return the next year?