Has anyone ever come across or heard of 90 degree tunnels? By that, I mean they enter and then immediately make a 90 degree turn down the tunnel and into the nest chamber. I would think that someone would have made them because it seems much safer for the martins as a hawk or owl couldn't reach into the nest chamber and grab them, which would also eliminate the need for owl guards as far as I can tell.
I've noticed that all the birds I have right now seem to show a strong preference the the cheap S&K barn I have. I have two gourd racks with
Bo 11's...all with tunnels, the S&K barn house, and a Goliad house I installed about two months ago. I'm also getting ready to put up a gourd rack I made myself in the next couple days. The S&K house has been modified from 12 compartments to 6. Anyone who has modified one of these houses will know that when the martins enter, they have to make a 90 degree turn once they enter to get to the nesting chamber in 4 of the 6 compartments. This is the only reason I can think of as to why they seem so determined to nest in this house, and I'd really prefer them not to nest in this one.
I still need to purchase the gourds for the new rack I built, and I've been looking everywhere for some tunnels to add that have a 90 degree entrance. I'm just hoping someone can point me in the right direction if they are available.
Calling for much colder temps here in Missouri over the next week....highs in the 40's and possible snow showers. I need to get this new gourd rack up by Monday as I built it with built-in food pans on the top. I just hope they take to it ok and figure it out.
Thanks, and good luck to all.
90 degree tunnels
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TravisF
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm
- Location: Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2018 1 SY pair, were not successful in nesting
2019 4 pairs. Learned the hard way the importance of predator/pest control. Lost a few eggs to sparrows and lost an entire nest of babies to a black snake. Stepped up sparrow control and installed electric snake guards. Fledged 12
2020 35 cavities offered. 31 pairs with 27 pairs nesting. Fledged 113
2021 69 cavities offered. Another big jump with 61 pairs nesting. Totaled 291 eggs and fledged 274. Almost all the losses were from capped eggs with two chicks dying in the nest from unknown causes. Plan to have 113 cavities available in 2022.
2022 Offered 98 cavities. Jumped up to 83 nesting pairs. Had 3 nests with 7 eggs, and one nest with 8 eggs. 437 total eggs laid and fledged 411. Thought my last chicks had fledged August 14th, but noticed a martin entering a gourd a few times late August. Lowered housing and had 3 young martins probably 2 weeks old. Last fledging on Sept. 7.
Uh...yeah...hanging as we speak, but devised, built and first offered about 17 years ago:
See Natureline at bottom of picture. Has a 90-degree mitered elbow, entrance is a crescent with exterior traction porch. Has an exit aid also, a small 3/8" dia pvc pipe glued inside next to the crescent as a toehold aid for an exiting martin. Works fine in an established colony, by that I mean martins take to it with no problems. May have never been offered in new-start situation. I never had a crow, hawk or an owl pull a martin from my tunneled stuff in the three or four years of offering them. I quit doing martins after that, so folks who copied my entries and had them in the air in the interim, then to now, might respond. I had some on natural gourds with these as well. Martins accepted them fine as well.
Back in the game as of now though, so it is now existing in a colony-start situation.
- pipegdhunga.jpg (8.99 KiB) Viewed 7734 times
Back in the game as of now though, so it is now existing in a colony-start situation.
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TravisF
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm
- Location: Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2018 1 SY pair, were not successful in nesting
2019 4 pairs. Learned the hard way the importance of predator/pest control. Lost a few eggs to sparrows and lost an entire nest of babies to a black snake. Stepped up sparrow control and installed electric snake guards. Fledged 12
2020 35 cavities offered. 31 pairs with 27 pairs nesting. Fledged 113
2021 69 cavities offered. Another big jump with 61 pairs nesting. Totaled 291 eggs and fledged 274. Almost all the losses were from capped eggs with two chicks dying in the nest from unknown causes. Plan to have 113 cavities available in 2022.
2022 Offered 98 cavities. Jumped up to 83 nesting pairs. Had 3 nests with 7 eggs, and one nest with 8 eggs. 437 total eggs laid and fledged 411. Thought my last chicks had fledged August 14th, but noticed a martin entering a gourd a few times late August. Lowered housing and had 3 young martins probably 2 weeks old. Last fledging on Sept. 7.
Thanks, Terry. Is that a Natureline entrence, or was it adapted to fit the Natureline gourd? From what I can find, Natureline has went out of business. I'm currently using the S&K bo 11 gourds, and was planning on ordering 9 more for the new gourd rack. I've heard mixed reviews on these gourds, with most of the complaints being about leaking problems since they are a two piece construction. I honestly bought them because they're a bit cheaper than some of the other gourds, but I'm not opposed to buying something different if they're a much higher quality for the martins. When I put mine together, I ran a small bead of lexal around the entire edge, and that completely sealed it once the two pieces were assembled. I haven't had a bit of problems with them leaking.
I had an idea while I was at Lowes today of making my own gourds using 6" pvc pipe. I was going to use a 6" drain wye with a 4" elbow on the wye, an end cap, and a clean out cap to do nest checks. Then I'd make my own entrance plate and porch out of some other material, attaching that to the 4" elbow on the wye. Problem was that once I got all my parts together, each "gourd" was going to cost a bit over $40! That's why I'm on here looking for other options for an entrance that doesn't have a straight shot to the nest chamber.
I had an idea while I was at Lowes today of making my own gourds using 6" pvc pipe. I was going to use a 6" drain wye with a 4" elbow on the wye, an end cap, and a clean out cap to do nest checks. Then I'd make my own entrance plate and porch out of some other material, attaching that to the 4" elbow on the wye. Problem was that once I got all my parts together, each "gourd" was going to cost a bit over $40! That's why I'm on here looking for other options for an entrance that doesn't have a straight shot to the nest chamber.
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Brad Biddle
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:22 pm
- Location: Marshall County AL
When Terry originally posted those entrances, many years ago, I made some to try. I did mine differently. I used a 6" length of 3" PVC. I mounted the face plate directly on one end of the pipe. I covered the other end of the pipe with Sintra. Completely blocked it off. I then cut a 2"x3" oval hole in the side of the pipe on the end that was blocked off. When I installed the tunnels, I stuck about 4" of the tunnel inside the gourd. From the outside they look exactly the same as any other Natureline gourd that I have hanging. I can't remember exactly how many of them I made that way. Twelve I think. I never noticed any difference in occupancy order or any sort of preference by the Martins for them.
Martin landlord since 2003. Currently offering 162 plastic gourds with tunnels, all with Conley II entrances with the Lewis modification. I have 24 Supergourds and the rest are Troyer Horizontals.
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TravisF
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm
- Location: Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2018 1 SY pair, were not successful in nesting
2019 4 pairs. Learned the hard way the importance of predator/pest control. Lost a few eggs to sparrows and lost an entire nest of babies to a black snake. Stepped up sparrow control and installed electric snake guards. Fledged 12
2020 35 cavities offered. 31 pairs with 27 pairs nesting. Fledged 113
2021 69 cavities offered. Another big jump with 61 pairs nesting. Totaled 291 eggs and fledged 274. Almost all the losses were from capped eggs with two chicks dying in the nest from unknown causes. Plan to have 113 cavities available in 2022.
2022 Offered 98 cavities. Jumped up to 83 nesting pairs. Had 3 nests with 7 eggs, and one nest with 8 eggs. 437 total eggs laid and fledged 411. Thought my last chicks had fledged August 14th, but noticed a martin entering a gourd a few times late August. Lowered housing and had 3 young martins probably 2 weeks old. Last fledging on Sept. 7.
Thanks, Brad. So from your experience, they don't seem to prefer nesting in a house or gourd with an offset nest chamber? I guess there's some other reason why they prefer that S&K house.
I think the preference is more of the Martins at your site choosing the house style. I expanded the nest boxes on a Trio Castle , where when the bird went in they would make a left turn going into the expanded nest box. They wanted nothing to do with it and almost exclusively chose the gourds with tunnels.
Jeff
Travis, I loved how the Naturelines looked with the 90-degree mitered elbow. You just need a cut off saw that can make a cut through 3" pipe in one sweep so the saw cut is square so it will mate together nicely to the adjoining piece of 3' pipe.
Listen to Brad, he knows what he is doing!
Honestly though, I have to say I don't really know if the 90-degree entrance was any more than eye candy for me, ie, more effective in predator resistance, don't know, but my straight tunnels "stuck" with folks, and I do think the straight tunnel increases the safety of the martin family. Going to the trouble of putting them on is worth it, especially on the PMCA SG or their Excluder Gourd.
If you want a less costly alternative to the price you pay for gourds, look at my Pipe Gourd a little ways down on the thread list of this forum. They are labor intensive, but if you don't count your labor, make them and you will help your personal cash flow a good deal! Like Man, I'd put it right up there against the Troyer Horizontal!
Listen to Brad, he knows what he is doing!
Honestly though, I have to say I don't really know if the 90-degree entrance was any more than eye candy for me, ie, more effective in predator resistance, don't know, but my straight tunnels "stuck" with folks, and I do think the straight tunnel increases the safety of the martin family. Going to the trouble of putting them on is worth it, especially on the PMCA SG or their Excluder Gourd.
If you want a less costly alternative to the price you pay for gourds, look at my Pipe Gourd a little ways down on the thread list of this forum. They are labor intensive, but if you don't count your labor, make them and you will help your personal cash flow a good deal! Like Man, I'd put it right up there against the Troyer Horizontal!
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Brad Biddle
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:22 pm
- Location: Marshall County AL
I dug a natural gourd out of storage last year that I'd never cut a hole in. I cut an SREH directly into the gourd. No porch, no tunnel I just put a piece of aluminum flashing below the entrance pointing straight down for them to use as a tail prop. No bird nested in it last year. This year..... No takers either. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a Martin even cling to the front of the gourd, much less enter it. I have 2 gourds with tunnels down at the barn that the porch broke off of. Old NL gourds with homemade Sintra porches and faceplates. The porches broke off last year and the birds still used them. I was going to replace them this year, but after adding the new rack behind my house I decided to leave them the way they were in hopes there would be 2 more pair in my new rack. That didn't work out. Both those gourds are having green leaves carried into them as of yesterday. The birds grab the entrance with their feet and their tail curls way under the tunnel. There's nothing smooth or fluid about their entry into the gourds. It's the most akward looking thing I could imagine, yet they freely use them. I think that really shows how much preference they show for tunnelled gourds.deancamp wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:06 amI think the preference is more of the Martins at your site choosing the house style. I expanded the nest boxes on a Trio Castle , where when the bird went in they would make a left turn going into the expanded nest box. They wanted nothing to do with it and almost exclusively chose the gourds with tunnels.
In case you didn't know, as far as I know, the first person to ever put a tunnel on a gourd, is posting on this thread. His name is Terry Washburn.
Martin landlord since 2003. Currently offering 162 plastic gourds with tunnels, all with Conley II entrances with the Lewis modification. I have 24 Supergourds and the rest are Troyer Horizontals.
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TravisF
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm
- Location: Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2018 1 SY pair, were not successful in nesting
2019 4 pairs. Learned the hard way the importance of predator/pest control. Lost a few eggs to sparrows and lost an entire nest of babies to a black snake. Stepped up sparrow control and installed electric snake guards. Fledged 12
2020 35 cavities offered. 31 pairs with 27 pairs nesting. Fledged 113
2021 69 cavities offered. Another big jump with 61 pairs nesting. Totaled 291 eggs and fledged 274. Almost all the losses were from capped eggs with two chicks dying in the nest from unknown causes. Plan to have 113 cavities available in 2022.
2022 Offered 98 cavities. Jumped up to 83 nesting pairs. Had 3 nests with 7 eggs, and one nest with 8 eggs. 437 total eggs laid and fledged 411. Thought my last chicks had fledged August 14th, but noticed a martin entering a gourd a few times late August. Lowered housing and had 3 young martins probably 2 weeks old. Last fledging on Sept. 7.
Well, I sat and watched the martins come in to roost tonight and I have good news. First, I have 4 ASY pairs and three single ASY males currently roosting at my setup. Second, not a single bird roosted in the S&K house. Three of the pairs roosted in the gourds, one pair in the Goliad house, and the single males were scattered between the goliad and the gourds. I'm thinking they may just have an inclination to perching on the S&K house, not actually nesting in it. I had 4 pair on my first try last year, and three of the pairs nested in the S&K house, so I was worried they might do the same this year.
Brad, after today I think I'd agree that they do seem to have a preference to tunneled gourds. I was able to spend a lot of time watching my setup today, and there was a LOT of activity on the gourds. Not only were my resident birds checking them out, but I had many visitors as well trying to take a peek inside. I initially bought my gourds last year with just the clinger entrance. A short time later, I found the tunnels online and bought one just to try. Well, I very quickly bought tunnels for all my gourds after seeing the first one complete. So much safer for the martins in my opinion. I personally wouldn't put up a gourd without one!
Terry, so the tunneled gourd was your idea? That's fantastic! I looked back and saw your pipe gourd you made and it looks great! I actually pieced one together last week that basically looked the same, but I scrapped it when I decided to try the wye for the offset nest chamber. Well, after seeing yours complete and hung up, I'm going to revisit that idea. It looks awesome, and from what you pro's are telling me, the offset chamber doesn't seem necessary. I'm getting VERY ocd about this martin stuff....too much so. My sister-in-law has a picture of me last year standing out in the rain with a shotgun in hand, tornado sirens going off in the background, because I was determined to kill this damn sparrow that I just knew would make a break for the S&K house he kept trying to nest in. This stuff can get quite maddening when you're trying to make things just perfect for your martins!
Brad, after today I think I'd agree that they do seem to have a preference to tunneled gourds. I was able to spend a lot of time watching my setup today, and there was a LOT of activity on the gourds. Not only were my resident birds checking them out, but I had many visitors as well trying to take a peek inside. I initially bought my gourds last year with just the clinger entrance. A short time later, I found the tunnels online and bought one just to try. Well, I very quickly bought tunnels for all my gourds after seeing the first one complete. So much safer for the martins in my opinion. I personally wouldn't put up a gourd without one!
Terry, so the tunneled gourd was your idea? That's fantastic! I looked back and saw your pipe gourd you made and it looks great! I actually pieced one together last week that basically looked the same, but I scrapped it when I decided to try the wye for the offset nest chamber. Well, after seeing yours complete and hung up, I'm going to revisit that idea. It looks awesome, and from what you pro's are telling me, the offset chamber doesn't seem necessary. I'm getting VERY ocd about this martin stuff....too much so. My sister-in-law has a picture of me last year standing out in the rain with a shotgun in hand, tornado sirens going off in the background, because I was determined to kill this damn sparrow that I just knew would make a break for the S&K house he kept trying to nest in. This stuff can get quite maddening when you're trying to make things just perfect for your martins!
My s&k house is always filled first only reason I haven’t taken it down.
Then my regular bo round gourds no tunnels
Then they spill into my troyer tunnels and some prefer the troyer horizontal with clinger and cling plates. You really can’t go wrong with any of the options. I think the birds who seem to prefer the old cheap houses may have been raised in them and same goes for the gourds. Who knows?
Then my regular bo round gourds no tunnels
Then they spill into my troyer tunnels and some prefer the troyer horizontal with clinger and cling plates. You really can’t go wrong with any of the options. I think the birds who seem to prefer the old cheap houses may have been raised in them and same goes for the gourds. Who knows?
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Conrad Baker
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:43 pm
- Location: Paulina, Louisiana
S&K houses are the only ones I use. They get filled every year, with more birds always flying around. Seems like I should put up a few more, but I have neighbor problems, so I can't let my colony get any larger. They are cheap, but effective, and easy to maintain. I really like the tri-tel poles, they hold up very well even in high winds.SSMartin wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:35 pmMy s&k house is always filled first only reason I haven’t taken it down.
Then my regular bo round gourds no tunnels
Then they spill into my troyer tunnels and some prefer the troyer horizontal with clinger and cling plates. You really can’t go wrong with any of the options. I think the birds who seem to prefer the old cheap houses may have been raised in them and same goes for the gourds. Who knows?
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TravisF
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 4:37 pm
- Location: Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2018 1 SY pair, were not successful in nesting
2019 4 pairs. Learned the hard way the importance of predator/pest control. Lost a few eggs to sparrows and lost an entire nest of babies to a black snake. Stepped up sparrow control and installed electric snake guards. Fledged 12
2020 35 cavities offered. 31 pairs with 27 pairs nesting. Fledged 113
2021 69 cavities offered. Another big jump with 61 pairs nesting. Totaled 291 eggs and fledged 274. Almost all the losses were from capped eggs with two chicks dying in the nest from unknown causes. Plan to have 113 cavities available in 2022.
2022 Offered 98 cavities. Jumped up to 83 nesting pairs. Had 3 nests with 7 eggs, and one nest with 8 eggs. 437 total eggs laid and fledged 411. Thought my last chicks had fledged August 14th, but noticed a martin entering a gourd a few times late August. Lowered housing and had 3 young martins probably 2 weeks old. Last fledging on Sept. 7.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
SS, that makes sense that martins hatched in a house unit may favor a traditional style house over a gourd.
Conrad, when you say high winds, just how high are you talking? I currently have two tri tel poles with six gourds on each, and the S&K house is on a tri tel pole. A few years ago I had a neighbor who had one of these poles bend pretty badly during high winds.....the pole had actually cracked where it bent and was unusable after that. However, we supposedly had gusts over 100 mph, so it was some pretty intense winds. I've been lowering my tri tel poles a few feet during intense storms just in case. Maybe no need to??
SS, that makes sense that martins hatched in a house unit may favor a traditional style house over a gourd.
Conrad, when you say high winds, just how high are you talking? I currently have two tri tel poles with six gourds on each, and the S&K house is on a tri tel pole. A few years ago I had a neighbor who had one of these poles bend pretty badly during high winds.....the pole had actually cracked where it bent and was unusable after that. However, we supposedly had gusts over 100 mph, so it was some pretty intense winds. I've been lowering my tri tel poles a few feet during intense storms just in case. Maybe no need to??
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Conrad Baker
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:43 pm
- Location: Paulina, Louisiana
From what I understand, they are rated to 90 mph winds if you have an S&K house on them. If you have additional weight (gourds, feeding trays, etc) it would probably be less. I saw a photo on the box of one of my houses of an S&K house that was mounted on a tri-tel pole, and it was the only thing still standing after a Hurricane that hit Beaumont, Texas a while back. I'm sure if you contact S&K, they could email you the picture and /or provide the wind rating of their poles.
Yesterday for example, we had 40 mph winds, gusting to 60 and the poles and houses swayed a little bit, but they made it through with no problem. I have lowered them in the past, but the birds didn't take too kindly to it, so now I just leave them up (extended), unless some really high winds are forecast.
Yesterday for example, we had 40 mph winds, gusting to 60 and the poles and houses swayed a little bit, but they made it through with no problem. I have lowered them in the past, but the birds didn't take too kindly to it, so now I just leave them up (extended), unless some really high winds are forecast.
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Brad Biddle
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:22 pm
- Location: Marshall County AL
Gotta love it when somebody uses red wire nuts as anti poking protectors on an owl guard! I love it.
Martin landlord since 2003. Currently offering 162 plastic gourds with tunnels, all with Conley II entrances with the Lewis modification. I have 24 Supergourds and the rest are Troyer Horizontals.