Does anyone use the 90 degree 3" tunnel entrance ?

[Guest]

If so how does it compare to the straight entrance as far as popularity by the PM's?I can see where it has merit but do th PM's like it/use it ?


Which do the PM's like best?

dick

[Guest]

Sure would like to hear some input/thoughts on this one.

dick

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Dick, I tried 2, the martins were reluctant to go into them to begin, later they used them...its a very good idea that really never caught on probably because of the difficulty in making them, their large size, and cost

I sent you an email!

[Mary Dawnsong]

I've been wondering...

Why 90 degrees? Eliminate the last section and you'd have about 45 degrees. Wouldn't that be stronger, shorter, lighter weight, and just as effective as a baffle to prevent owls from looking inside the gourd?

[Steve Kroenke]

Mary,

I use about a 45 degree angled PVC tunnel on my natural gourds and the martins thrive in them. These are the couplers that you use to connect two pieces of 2 inch diameter PVC pipe. I use both straight and angled couplers and all are readily accepted by martins. I have posted many pictures of these gourds on the Forum showing martins using the them.

Owls primarily predate adult martins in gourds at the entrance hole. Male martins may sit in the entrances early in the morning during the dawn singing cycle and owls learn to swoop in a grab the martins. Any tunnel that restricts access to the nesting chamber and outside visibility helps to minimize owl predation. However, if martins are visible at the entrance hole, either round or sreh, then an owl can still swoop in and try to snatch the martin. Martins that remain deep inside their gourds which have some kind of tunnel attached are safe, particular a tunnel that creates an angle. The owl can't see or reach in to pull out the martins. A three inch angled tunnel would create a good barrier to an owl relative to inside visibilty and access.

Steve

[Guest]

Depending on the length of the sections of a 45 degree assembly and speaking of a 3" you could still have a line of site available to an owlmaybe a little longer and you could eliminate that. That was one of my questions yesterday ,how long of a tunnel woulda PM navigate.

I'll make a to scale sketchandsee what the minimum distance may be/

dick

[Mary Dawnsong]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I've seen your gourd photos. Very appealing.

I suppose my question should really be directed to Sandy - why sell 90 instead of 45? Does 90 work better in the field? Are custom 45s available?

Hi Dick,

The martins in my colony usually locate their nest in the part of the gourd least visible from the entry. So, I suspect they could and would avoid being in the line of sight.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Here is a way that I use to prevent owls from seeing the martins, I slightly rotate the entrance, and put a block in the back of the tunnel so the owls cannot see the nesting martins. This shows a 10-1/4in gourd with the tunnel turned slightly sideways. The white part on the back of the tunnel is the block.

The line near the center is the line of sight from the outside of the entrance hole. The bottom left side is the area where the martins cannot be seen.

This is simple with my cedar floor tunnels that I make, it is quick and easy for me to do this

[Bob Flam]

Hi folks,

Two of my very 1st gourds had a 90 degree and 45 degree entrance(3in. pvc tunnel). They have both been used every year.

Of the 16 gourds I'm offering here this year, I brought the 45 Degree along. Of the 4 pairs I have, one pair chose it. In fact it was my 1st pair here. And the other 90 back at the other site is being used again also.

The only thing I ever wondered about is when theres 3,4,5 babies in the tunnle looking out, if they could possibly get caught in it, or jammed up, or pushed out, when they try n turn around or get back away from the entrance. But they haven't seemed to have any problems

bob

[Mary Dawnsong]

Thanks, Emil. I've been thinking about doing something like that to my tunnels. The martins don't need that 3" diameter opening from tunnel to gourd.. so why not block part of it?

The tunnels I purchased have a very low rain dam at the bottom. I've considered making the rain dam much taller. I mount my tunnels as high as possible on the gourd, so a taller rain dam at the back of the tunnel might achieve adequate vertical depth in the gourd to block the view of the nest. Not sure; I'm spatially challenged. All thoughts appreciated!

I like the WDC tunnels, but I've been worried that they expose more view of the nesting area than my inside/outside porched crescents do.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Mary, your idea may work, but I prefer to have the tunnel close to the floor so the martins can walk out of the gourd. I personally do not like to have the holes up high, but your idea may work well.

[Guest]

I see both points here in the height variation,,,I would tend to go with Emil's thoughts on lower, if line of sight were blocked with his angled entrance and with Mary's higher, with a sraight entry. Now all I have to do is incorporate both and make a million $'s LOL

I got nearly a year to do somethiong different if I can find or feel I have a better mousetrap.

dick

[Bob Flam]

Blocking line of sight probably helps. My thinking...probably just rambling... Martins like them, at least mine, maybe because they also feel line of sight is important.

But to an owl? Wouldn't an owl....if he knows or even just thinks theres martins in them...by the sounds they make at night inside...just grab on to it and flap his wings on it until they come out anyway? And then grab them. I've heard they do this...I've never seen or even had owl attacks, so I don't know.

To me the best defense would be the extended, down turned rods in front of the entrances. So the owl can't land on it, or hang on it to see, in the 1st place?

Just ramblin....

bob

[Mary Dawnsong]

Hi Bob,

I do have owl trouble and I have the type of owl guards you describe. In my colony, gourd owl guards have been very effective (knock on wood).

Last season I did have to replace my homemade 1/4" copper tubing guards with commercial solid aluminum guards. Owls are stronger than 1/4" copper and were pulling the tubing straight up into the air and/or pushing it to the side.

A GHO or Barred owl desperate to feed its young is highly motivated and probably capable of learning how to defeat the guards. So, I believe it wise to remove as much temptation as possible.

[Bob Flam]

Thats kind of what my thinking was. A desperate owl will do what it takes. I've seen pictures where they completely ripped the openings apart! Every precaution should be utilized in such a case

bob

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Bob, most owls probably would not grab the gourd and shake it. The experienced owls probably would, and they get the experience if they had success at your colony, and then they do become agressive. In my opinion, keeping them from catching the first martin is the key, as then they may become more agressive. If the owls cannot see the martins, they may just sit there a while and fly away..Who knows, this area is so unproven, I don't think there is a cure for owls on gourds as of now.

[Sandy - NC]

Mary, I make the 90 degrees because Terry Washburn has had a lot of success with them. I will 45 degrees, or basically, custom make anything people want, if it is feasible and I don't think it will harm the martins.

[Robert McCallum]

I had some too-small gourds (just about 8 inches) and made one with a 2-inch PVC 45-degree entrance tipped slightly downward with a wire "porch" as in some of Steve K's many pictures. In spite of the small size they chose it first and seem to be doing OK. I'm sure the inside view is excluded from owls.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Robert, all of my gourds that I work on from now on will address that feature about owls not seeing the martins. I had 2 small thick dense 7in gourds that I put together, making the combined gourds about 12in long. I put the entrance into the side of one, the access cap on the side of the other one. Nothing could see inside the 2nd gourd from the outside. That combination was quickly selected last year. This year I put that small double gourd beside a 14-1/2in gourd. The martins selected the small double gourd quickly, and then about a month later, the large gourd was chosen. I think its the security feeling that the martins get when they cannot be seen from the entrance hole. Some people are starting to address this issue with baffles in houses, and that is a good idea.

[Steve Kroenke]

Hey Robert,

I am glad you had success with the PVC extender added to a natural gourd! The size of the actual nesting chamber is not that important and most of my natural gourds with the PVC extenders added are between 7 and 8 inches in diameter. Martins are flourishing in them at my colony. It is the distance from the entrance hole that counts and that distance can be expressed either as vertical or horizontal depth. Martins nested (and still do out west) in vertically deep woodpecker holes which have relatively small nesting chambers. Such vertically/horizontally deep nesting cavities are much safer from owls and other predators. My horizontal gourds with entrances cut in the neck to create a 90 degree angle of turn for the martins create a safe nesting environment, too.

I will use more natural gourds with nesting chambers that are between 7 and 10 inches in diameter and greater vertical/horizontal depth from the entrance hole. These are in my opinion more attractive and safer that just plain huge round gourds with the entrance cut in the front and with direct line visibility to the nesting chamber.

I hope you will try more of the natural gourds that maximize vertical/horizontal depth.

Steve