In a recent post by Steve Kronke, he talked about not allowing birds, particularly SY birds, to roost on porch's or perches due to owl predation. I have a couple of questions relating to this subject.
As a new landlord, I currently have four pairs of martins and four additional birds not yet paired up and therefore am hopeful of having fledgings. My first question; when the young do fledge, will the parents let them back in the housing compartment where they were hatched? I recall reading somewhere that fledgings, or the adults, will roost on the porch after the young have fledged. This is why I am concerned about owl predation. I have a Coates eight compartment house with each compartment consisting of two 6"x 6" rooms.
My second question concerns room size. I assume before the young fledge, they will be discovering/exercising their wings. Is it better to have one 6"x 12" compartment for this activity, especially for a large brood, or do the two 6"x 6" sections comprising one compartment allow the same amount of freedom.
Tim
Question regarding fledgings
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Tim Mangan-Kansas
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:25 am
- Location: Kansas, Pittsburg
- Martin Colony History: 2016 - 22 Pair
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Guest
Tim,
I am not a long experienced landlord but will tell you what I know from having martins last year.
The parents do try to bring the fledglings back to the nest at night. I had 1 nest that fledged and they always made it back in safely as long as the parents brought them back. (toward the end somtimes they skipped a night bringing them to the nest) Since I had only one nest of fledglings, they typically made it back easily. In large colonies with many, many nests of fledglings returning and the fledglings having little experience finding the right nest in the house or correct gourd on the rack, fledglings can easily get in the wrong nest or loose their parent for a little while. I'm guessing that it would be easy for a fledgling to be left outside to roost on their own in these circumstances.....I'm sure Steve or other large colony landlord will fill us in on this point. Should these fledglings roosting on porches, gourd arms, etc. be ran off?........I'll defer that opinion to someone with more experience but I'm doubting this till the experienced speak up saying differently.
I think either a nest of (2) 6" x 6" rooms or 1 room 6" x 12" gives the nestlings sufficient room. Sometimes martins like the suclusion of a divided off room in the nest either at the rear or to the side (90 deg).
I am not a long experienced landlord but will tell you what I know from having martins last year.
The parents do try to bring the fledglings back to the nest at night. I had 1 nest that fledged and they always made it back in safely as long as the parents brought them back. (toward the end somtimes they skipped a night bringing them to the nest) Since I had only one nest of fledglings, they typically made it back easily. In large colonies with many, many nests of fledglings returning and the fledglings having little experience finding the right nest in the house or correct gourd on the rack, fledglings can easily get in the wrong nest or loose their parent for a little while. I'm guessing that it would be easy for a fledgling to be left outside to roost on their own in these circumstances.....I'm sure Steve or other large colony landlord will fill us in on this point. Should these fledglings roosting on porches, gourd arms, etc. be ran off?........I'll defer that opinion to someone with more experience but I'm doubting this till the experienced speak up saying differently.
I think either a nest of (2) 6" x 6" rooms or 1 room 6" x 12" gives the nestlings sufficient room. Sometimes martins like the suclusion of a divided off room in the nest either at the rear or to the side (90 deg).
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Hey Tim,
Yes, most parent martins bring their young back to roost at least for a few nights. Then you may have other fledglings show up and roost. For small colonies, the parents often succeed in getting their young into a nest and this may not necessarily be the natal cavity. But that is OK. So for smaller colonies, the chances of the large numbers of fledglings roosting on exposed gourd crossbars/house porches are probably minimized.
However, for large colonies, you will often see many youngsters roosting in the open. Last year at our colonies, great horned owls killed numerous fledglings that roosted on the gourd crossbars/house perches. I estimate we lost over 30 youngsters during a two week period. I would find as many as 3 kills each morning and piles of plucked feathers littered our yards. I posted a picture on the Forum of a pile of plucked martin feathers with a great horned owl feather mixed in. The great horned owls would take the fledglings to the ground and eat them under the housing or close by on our closely mowed lawns. I did start dispersing the fledglings and this stopped the owls from raiding our colonies. These were strong flying youngsters and could easily roost in tree canopies. If I had not done this, the owls would have continued to kill the youngsters until all finally were dispersed by the predation. I probably saved many from a grisly death.
For this season, I will not allow fledglings to roost at my colony in the open. I would be sentencing some to death as there are just too many owls in our area and they hoot EVERY night and early morning around here. Plus, the owls will ?chase? the fledglings away eventually but kill many in the process. Barred owls are located west and north of us and great horned owls are located east. I hear both species hoot. We mainly suffer from great horned owl predation as these owls are dominant over the smaller barred and nest closer to us.
However, I am not saying you should disperse your fledglings that may roost in the open because I am not aware if your colony is in the hunting territory of a barred or great horned owl. Every situation is different. You may or may not have owls in your immediate area. If you live near water, then barred owls are a good possibility in the Deep South. They are PLENTIFUL down here! Great horned owls are located in every region where martins are known to nest.
Regarding the nest compartment size, both combinations work well and I have used the open 6" x 12" and the divided nest chamber approach with the nest site having 6" x 6" dimensions. I prefer the divided system because it isolates the nest cavity from the main entrance hole and provides considerable seclusion and protection for the martins. Martins do just fine in 6" x 6" compartments with the divided chamber system. I have raised MANY youngsters in them!
Hopefully, you will not have any owl problems. Good luck.
Steve
Yes, most parent martins bring their young back to roost at least for a few nights. Then you may have other fledglings show up and roost. For small colonies, the parents often succeed in getting their young into a nest and this may not necessarily be the natal cavity. But that is OK. So for smaller colonies, the chances of the large numbers of fledglings roosting on exposed gourd crossbars/house porches are probably minimized.
However, for large colonies, you will often see many youngsters roosting in the open. Last year at our colonies, great horned owls killed numerous fledglings that roosted on the gourd crossbars/house perches. I estimate we lost over 30 youngsters during a two week period. I would find as many as 3 kills each morning and piles of plucked feathers littered our yards. I posted a picture on the Forum of a pile of plucked martin feathers with a great horned owl feather mixed in. The great horned owls would take the fledglings to the ground and eat them under the housing or close by on our closely mowed lawns. I did start dispersing the fledglings and this stopped the owls from raiding our colonies. These were strong flying youngsters and could easily roost in tree canopies. If I had not done this, the owls would have continued to kill the youngsters until all finally were dispersed by the predation. I probably saved many from a grisly death.
For this season, I will not allow fledglings to roost at my colony in the open. I would be sentencing some to death as there are just too many owls in our area and they hoot EVERY night and early morning around here. Plus, the owls will ?chase? the fledglings away eventually but kill many in the process. Barred owls are located west and north of us and great horned owls are located east. I hear both species hoot. We mainly suffer from great horned owl predation as these owls are dominant over the smaller barred and nest closer to us.
However, I am not saying you should disperse your fledglings that may roost in the open because I am not aware if your colony is in the hunting territory of a barred or great horned owl. Every situation is different. You may or may not have owls in your immediate area. If you live near water, then barred owls are a good possibility in the Deep South. They are PLENTIFUL down here! Great horned owls are located in every region where martins are known to nest.
Regarding the nest compartment size, both combinations work well and I have used the open 6" x 12" and the divided nest chamber approach with the nest site having 6" x 6" dimensions. I prefer the divided system because it isolates the nest cavity from the main entrance hole and provides considerable seclusion and protection for the martins. Martins do just fine in 6" x 6" compartments with the divided chamber system. I have raised MANY youngsters in them!
Hopefully, you will not have any owl problems. Good luck.
Steve
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
I seriously doubt that running them off does much good because there may be more owls where they decide to spend the night. I don't know of a good solution. Running them off at night simply could transfer the problem to some other location, and you don't see the pile of feathers.
I did notice that when an owl comes and catches one at night, the next night there are none sitting outside at my place, so it does seem to help educate them. Thats terrible training though, so I have no idea what is best.
I did notice that when an owl comes and catches one at night, the next night there are none sitting outside at my place, so it does seem to help educate them. Thats terrible training though, so I have no idea what is best.
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Tim Mangan-Kansas
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:25 am
- Location: Kansas, Pittsburg
- Martin Colony History: 2016 - 22 Pair
HogWild, Steve and Emil, thanks for the input. Each morning, I hear an owl hooting across the cove from my martin house so I know they are here and that is what prompted my question. Helping me get educated from landlords like yourselves, ahead of time, really helps. I know I have four pair building nest and when I came home today, I counted 12 birds on my house. Being a newcomer, I had no idea I would be able to attract this many martins my first year. I am hoping that I will have some empty compartments when it comes time for the fledgings to return to the house in case they don't get back to their right compartment.
I am sure other new landlords are soaking up this information to also help them with their fledgings.
Tim
I am sure other new landlords are soaking up this information to also help them with their fledgings.
Tim