Species of Pine Needles/Pine Straw

[Carlton]

I have my gourds & house all set up using dry Loblolly Pine needles as the nest. I just read on The Forum where only white pine needles should be used as they are soft. The loblolly are somewhat sharp on the tips but not horribly. Am I okay leaving the gourds as is or do I have to go off looking for someone who has a white pine tree and get softer needles? I am hoping for some SY tenants any day now. They checked out my gourds last year, in July, but did not nest. I do not think that Down South they even have White Pines! I think that everything down that way is loblolly or long needled pine. Right? [/b]

[Donna - TX]

Yes, I use the same pine needles in my gourds and they like it just fine. They put a layer of small twigs and leaves on top. Some of the birds don't like it in the houses but they leave the pine needles in the gourds. I have 16 Super Gourds and they are all filled with martins.

[TreeGreenwood]

Leave it to a danged yankee to correct things.

Loblolly pine (Pinus taeda L), with the long, droopy, oily, burn-in-a-flash. water-shedding needles are what you need. Other common names include 'Southern YELLOW pine' and 'Timber pine.' It's the most common southern pine. Loblolly pines tolerate a wide variety of growing conditions from swampy areas in the Virginia Piedmont to dry plains of eastern Texas. It's native to the southeast US but has been planted as a timber tree worldwide because it's fast growing and tolerant of such a wide variety of growing conditions.

Southern White pine has shorter, sharper needles even the 'longleaf' variety (Pinus palustris, P.) and grows mostly in the Appalachian Mountains... or what pass for mountains east of the Missippi... and foothills. Most White pines will die without great drainage. I've killed enough of 'em to know. White pines are common landscape pines because they grow fuller and more evenly. White pines are what you'll usually find at a nurseru. Lowes or Home Depot.

All the birds that I know prefer Loblolly pine. The more common 'short leaf' Southern White pine (Pinus echinata) and Virginia pine (Pinus virginiana) needles are rarely found in nests that I've monitored.

Any true experts, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tree

[Al Denton]

Can't disagree with that Tree. What are there..about 35 species of pine trees? I'll bet any of them would do in a pinch. Al

[TreeGreenwood]

I'll bet any of them would do in a pinch.

Actually, Al, I never see birds using the short needled varieties with stiff, sharp needles in nests. The short needles dry out and brown quickly and stick to everything, like the cut Christmas tree pine needles from 1998 that you can't get out of your carpet. The droopy long-needles stay green longer and stay flexible and water-shedding even after they brown. They're what show up in bird nests, whether Martins, Bluebirds, Robins or Tree Swallows.

I planted Loblolly pines at my place but they're tiny. It'll be years before there are enough needles for my Martins. Last summer, I provided 'pine straw.' My Martins ignored it, choosing to build their nests from corn fodder and thin strips of wood mulch from my garden pathways. All birds in my area avoid using short White pine needles. In a pinch, they'll choose something but not necessarily pine needles.

[Dan Drew]

I do not think that Down South they even have White Pines!

Carlton,

I made a BIG MISTAKE by reciting what I learned about pine straw in "old timers' lanugage." I did NOT intend to stir up a hair splitting discussion regarding which species of pine needles was suitable for nesting material.

I just did some Googling on the internet and I now realize how complicated this could get. I did NOT intend that! In fact, "white pine" might be a misnomer. Eastern white pine appears very suitable from the research; but my research shows it is very rare in Indiana. My "teacher" might have been INACCURATE in identifying the trees he showed me for gathering pine straw as "white pine."

Furthermore, your loblolly pine also appears from the research to have the right characteristics... but does not grow in any northern or mid-western states.

Even more disconcerting, the area of Indianapolis best noted for producing pine straw is called "Royal Pines" ...which might also be a mis-nomer! In summary, there are probably several species of pine with needles suitable for nesting material.

The important thing (and what you should teach) is that the needles are LONG, PLIANT, and SOFT, and are not "prickly" when you squeeze a handful of them or rub them over your skin.[/quote]

[Carlton]

I appreciate all the responses and got a kick out of reading them as well. I remember when I was a kid my parents bought a last minute Christmas tree from Sears. It was really too dry to being home to put in the house. Dangerous. Anyway, it was a Scotch Pine and dropped needles from day one. When we took it down a week later it was dropping like a February snowstorm with SHARP, SHORT needles in the carpet. My father made the mistake of trying to use the vacuum cleaner and the hose got totally clogged with those sharp little things. What a mess! That was not a goo day around our house. :-)))

I will just leave the loblolly pine needles in the gourds. They are long and fairly soft. I have the dawnsong cd going now. I HOPE to see some action this season but doubt I will see anything for another month when I imagine the SY will arrive back in coastal DE.