Who is doing better advertising?
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flyin-lowe
- Posts: 3789
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
- Location: Indiana/Henry Co.
This is my first year trying to attract a colony and I have been doing a lot of reading. I have a job where a drive around a lot and heres what I have noticed. For every good quality looking landlord site that I see there are at least 20 that consist of a "cheap" house that is on a solid pole stuck next to a large tree covered with starlings. Maybe where you guys are from things are different but I had never paid attention to these house before this spring. The two counties that I frequently visit I have only seen three nice looking sights and at least 20-30 what I would call trash sites. Should the companys who produce the commercial houses spend more time on advertising the effort put into a colony, or just keep on advertising the thousands of mosquitos that their martin will eat dailey
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Frank Hargis-IL
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:22 pm
- Location: Illinois/Flora
I think a couple of things are involved here with the bad sites. First you hit it on the head with one work "cheap". Second is most of these landlords are uninformed. See a lot of the same thing around here.
Luck,
Frank
Luck,
Frank
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Guest
flyin-lowe,
It's sad, but I think that scenerio is everywhere you go. I see alot of that here in North Carolina. If I can ever get a good, established colony with lots of martins, I'm hoping I can convince the local newspaper to come over and do an article. But I have to be able to provide the proof first.
Sheila
It's sad, but I think that scenerio is everywhere you go. I see alot of that here in North Carolina. If I can ever get a good, established colony with lots of martins, I'm hoping I can convince the local newspaper to come over and do an article. But I have to be able to provide the proof first.
Sheila
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CUL Lou~Mich
Flyin-lowe. You sure hit this one on the head. I know of several PM houses. Out of all of them I know, there are two that MIGHT be able to attract them. One of those I'm doubtful, the other has PMs, but won't control the EHS, or EUST. I've talked to the folks at both sites, and one says his PMs and other birds get along just fine. Didn't have the heart, nor nerve to tell him the PMs were actually European Starlings. The other, I gave the folks my home phone, my cell phone, my email address, the address of both the PMCA and PMS NA forums. They've never called, emailed, nor logged on to the forums that I can tell. (I'm on both at least once, and sometimes several times daily.) Another that has a scout report on here now from my town, I've watched both last year several times, and this year twice so far, and all I'm seeing is EUST, and Tree Swallows. I don't think folks care, as long as they can report they have PMs, whether they do or not. CUL Lou
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Guest
I've seen a lot of this, too, and it's a little depressing. Just my opinion, but I put the situation down to lack of information and human nature ("you're not going to tell me how to do things!")
I mentioned it once before, but I think the manufacturers of PM houses really should provide more information with their product. A good example of providing more information is the Coates houses. When I was building ours, I saw that they'd inserted informational booklets about PMs with the assembly instructions. It may not be a copy of Stokes PM Guide, but it helps.
The other way I can see getting people to pay attention to their site, and what birds are nesting there, is by making it profitable to have a well-tended PM site. Money. Specifically a tax break. Someone signs up for this program that encourages people to set up nesting sites for native birds. Their site is entered into a database, and is checked by local officials (fish & wildlife or something) on a routine basis. The more native birds they fledge the bigger the tax break.
Call me a cynic, but money can make people do lots of interesting things.
I mentioned it once before, but I think the manufacturers of PM houses really should provide more information with their product. A good example of providing more information is the Coates houses. When I was building ours, I saw that they'd inserted informational booklets about PMs with the assembly instructions. It may not be a copy of Stokes PM Guide, but it helps.
The other way I can see getting people to pay attention to their site, and what birds are nesting there, is by making it profitable to have a well-tended PM site. Money. Specifically a tax break. Someone signs up for this program that encourages people to set up nesting sites for native birds. Their site is entered into a database, and is checked by local officials (fish & wildlife or something) on a routine basis. The more native birds they fledge the bigger the tax break.
Call me a cynic, but money can make people do lots of interesting things.
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Guss P O'Brien
In my neighborhood with more than 150 homes with dozens of martin houses, I think that I am the only one who manages his site. I can tell from the looks I and my housing get that people think I am some sort of freak. My 80+ yr old neighbor is the only one who will talk to me about it. He thinks that it is very strange that I look in the nests so much and take notes and then correspond with a club in PA about it, but he is by far the most opened minded about it.
Some people will slow down in their cars and take a look, but speed off when they notice that I have noticed them looking. It gives me the idea, that they don't want to talk about it- let alone be mentored.
I've thought about putting up some info sheets in one of those things people use when they are selling their house to see if anyone is interested. Maybe offer free tours.
There is a decent chimney of swifts a couple streets over. There is no way I'm going to approach them about it because I doubt they even know, and I wouldn't want to have them get rid of them after I let them know what they had.
People who do what we do are a very fringe minority- freaks and geeks to most, but I don't let that bother me. If I cared what people thought about me, I would have left this forum and not come back.
Some people will slow down in their cars and take a look, but speed off when they notice that I have noticed them looking. It gives me the idea, that they don't want to talk about it- let alone be mentored.
I've thought about putting up some info sheets in one of those things people use when they are selling their house to see if anyone is interested. Maybe offer free tours.
There is a decent chimney of swifts a couple streets over. There is no way I'm going to approach them about it because I doubt they even know, and I wouldn't want to have them get rid of them after I let them know what they had.
People who do what we do are a very fringe minority- freaks and geeks to most, but I don't let that bother me. If I cared what people thought about me, I would have left this forum and not come back.
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Dave
I think you missed the ?nail? by a Mile. The price of a good martin house has nothing to do with stupid people who don?t read instructions or hobby information. It just happens; I make the least expensive house in the marketplace $20. at Wal-Mart. We supply P.M.C.A. lit. in the box which alerts the buyer of the ?do?s and don?ts?. Bottom line ?You can?t fix Stupid?. Bumper stickers are for sale .99
Good luck on the tax break idea. Now that?s something to work on. Maybe the PMCA could take that one on.
Good luck on the tax break idea. Now that?s something to work on. Maybe the PMCA could take that one on.
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Sigundo
I'll have to agree there... I'd say its more location (and management) then anything else. And luck, a LOT of it is just luck, pure and simple. I see a few really fancy martin setups here, and they are full of starlings.
Then you got my house, it's looking a bit rough with my bad shooting skills, leans a bit (cause the fence post I attached it too leans a bit) but not TOO much, and has a permanent dent in the roof (I had a "controlled descent" once when I pulled too fast and the pole came all the way out). But I can look out the window now and have 8 martins sitting on it, singing pretty (well 2 actually live in my gourd setup 18 feet away, but come over to sit and sing during the day a lot).
I'd almost bet (if it wouldn't be bad for the birds) that If I cut a cardboard box with sreh and plenty of water-resisting packing tape on the outside, stuck it up nearby I'd maybe get some martins... I'd try it but if I got some, they might lose the box in a heavy downpour, and its not worth that price to test...
Kinda reminds me of my bluebird troubles, where I made a "perfect" bluebird house, put it up and made a really horrible "sparrow trap" house, with warped wood, rusty nails and huge gaps on all sides.. and the bluebird just wouldn't stop going in it and getting trapped. I even switched the good house and trap house locations, and they kept going to the trap house... so I removed the trap from the house figguring if they wanted it that badly, I let them nest in it, and they never returned. My wife finally ripped it apart (with one hand) when this years TS started going in it instead of the gourd we had for them.. but now that the worlds crappiest wooden bluebird house is gone, every bird in our yard has finally reluctantly accepted the better made homes/gourds.. *sigh* go figure birds sometimes... maybe my crappy house with its non-perfect design more mimiced nature.... who knows
Oh, and Dave, I gotta disagree with you on one point, you CAN fix stupid. My wife did it. You just have to use cast iron cookware she says because it doesn't dent when applied to stupids' skull so you can still fix breakfast. I don't know what she means by that, but I gotta go, I smell something cooking....
Then you got my house, it's looking a bit rough with my bad shooting skills, leans a bit (cause the fence post I attached it too leans a bit) but not TOO much, and has a permanent dent in the roof (I had a "controlled descent" once when I pulled too fast and the pole came all the way out). But I can look out the window now and have 8 martins sitting on it, singing pretty (well 2 actually live in my gourd setup 18 feet away, but come over to sit and sing during the day a lot).
I'd almost bet (if it wouldn't be bad for the birds) that If I cut a cardboard box with sreh and plenty of water-resisting packing tape on the outside, stuck it up nearby I'd maybe get some martins... I'd try it but if I got some, they might lose the box in a heavy downpour, and its not worth that price to test...
Kinda reminds me of my bluebird troubles, where I made a "perfect" bluebird house, put it up and made a really horrible "sparrow trap" house, with warped wood, rusty nails and huge gaps on all sides.. and the bluebird just wouldn't stop going in it and getting trapped. I even switched the good house and trap house locations, and they kept going to the trap house... so I removed the trap from the house figguring if they wanted it that badly, I let them nest in it, and they never returned. My wife finally ripped it apart (with one hand) when this years TS started going in it instead of the gourd we had for them.. but now that the worlds crappiest wooden bluebird house is gone, every bird in our yard has finally reluctantly accepted the better made homes/gourds.. *sigh* go figure birds sometimes... maybe my crappy house with its non-perfect design more mimiced nature.... who knows
Oh, and Dave, I gotta disagree with you on one point, you CAN fix stupid. My wife did it. You just have to use cast iron cookware she says because it doesn't dent when applied to stupids' skull so you can still fix breakfast. I don't know what she means by that, but I gotta go, I smell something cooking....
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Guest
Every begger and hand outter, in the country, would be nailing empty beer cans up and calling them experimental martin houses. Whew now I think I have heard everything.
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Dave
"Beggers and hand outter" don't need tax breaks. As a newbe2006, you have not heard everything yet. Only seasoned landlords have heard everything. Wink!docgipe wrote:Every begger and hand outter, in the country, would be nailing empty beer cans up and calling them experimental martin houses. Whew now I think I have heard everything.
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Guest
Sometimes, too, it could be a case of inherited housing (folks are SOOOO on the move these days) where the new home owner knows nothing about what the PM house was really intended for. I think this web site has an info page that can be copied and put in the mailboxes of those people who don't manage their sites, doesn't it?
I'll bet there are more folks who love birds than we really are aware. Birding is increasing in popularity all the time....the folks I see trucking out birdseed and feeders from Lowes and Walmart...whew! Why, this forum alone has 3008 members. Not that that's a HUGE number, but for a forum, I think that's pretty good.
I am here because of the package insert on Purple Martins and the PMCA that came with my S&K house. I wanted PMs because our local news station erroneously stated that "PMs eat mosquitoes clear out of an area." Of course the same news story mentioned nothing about S&S vs. Native Birds. I had no idea I was getting into such an involved hobby!
Instead of waiting for a newspaper to write a story, why not write one of your own? Take pictures, video and submit it to them. Also--many towns have their own version of "Hometown News", a free paper that will gladly take submissions on local interests. And I know most schools need local field trip material for Science.
It's not hopeless. Really.
I'll bet there are more folks who love birds than we really are aware. Birding is increasing in popularity all the time....the folks I see trucking out birdseed and feeders from Lowes and Walmart...whew! Why, this forum alone has 3008 members. Not that that's a HUGE number, but for a forum, I think that's pretty good.
I am here because of the package insert on Purple Martins and the PMCA that came with my S&K house. I wanted PMs because our local news station erroneously stated that "PMs eat mosquitoes clear out of an area." Of course the same news story mentioned nothing about S&S vs. Native Birds. I had no idea I was getting into such an involved hobby!
Instead of waiting for a newspaper to write a story, why not write one of your own? Take pictures, video and submit it to them. Also--many towns have their own version of "Hometown News", a free paper that will gladly take submissions on local interests. And I know most schools need local field trip material for Science.
It's not hopeless. Really.
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Guest
Well, here goes.................
Of the 6 house's I know of around me....
2 are heaths, unmanaged
1 is old T14, unmanaged, leans way to the North
2 are S&Ks, managed
1 Coats WE w/ SGs, replaced an S&K
Missing this year, are 2 S&K and a NH MSS8. The homeowners moved and I suppose they took them.
I've got 2 NH MSS8s, converted and 6 SGs
I think most ppl buy them, intending on wipping out every "skeeter" in their hood. Other than myself, one landlord near me takes PMs seriously.
I think S&K did good by putting the PMCA info in their housing, but I think other manufactures need to make GREAT strides in educating the purchasers of their housing. Not everyone makes a great PM Landlord!!!
Chuck
Of the 6 house's I know of around me....
2 are heaths, unmanaged
1 is old T14, unmanaged, leans way to the North
2 are S&Ks, managed
1 Coats WE w/ SGs, replaced an S&K
Missing this year, are 2 S&K and a NH MSS8. The homeowners moved and I suppose they took them.
I've got 2 NH MSS8s, converted and 6 SGs
I think most ppl buy them, intending on wipping out every "skeeter" in their hood. Other than myself, one landlord near me takes PMs seriously.
I think S&K did good by putting the PMCA info in their housing, but I think other manufactures need to make GREAT strides in educating the purchasers of their housing. Not everyone makes a great PM Landlord!!!
Chuck
One thing I'd like to add, although it's a little off topic.
Due to the large numbers of newbie landlords seen purchasing the S&K housing due to its cost and availability, and it turn seeing many new colonies cropping up using this housing, I think S&K is doing a huge service in getting new generations of martins in many areas imprinted on starling resistant entrance holes. Something that is definitely needed!
Due to the large numbers of newbie landlords seen purchasing the S&K housing due to its cost and availability, and it turn seeing many new colonies cropping up using this housing, I think S&K is doing a huge service in getting new generations of martins in many areas imprinted on starling resistant entrance holes. Something that is definitely needed!
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flyin-lowe
- Posts: 3789
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am
- Location: Indiana/Henry Co.
I too opted for the S&K because of the price. But what I did was spend the extra money for the perches and the blanks to close some doors to make my rooms 12X instead of 6X. I am hoping to use this to see if I can attract some PM's and then invest in some better housing for next season. I figured that would be the best way to go and not put a large amount in the begining and have no luck.
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Guest
S & K has the right philosophy. From the Little League play come the kids that do better in their school baseball and fewer still that play professional ball. It is a fact that the local fire hall's Saturday night polker for the masses finds the occasional good local, regional and finally highly skilled national image players.
It's also about start up hobby money. Thousands can spend or will spend, for opening or start up investment, to test the hobby. The few that move up, to managed set ups come, from those who know success, or learn success principles along the way.
This forum and other web sites specialized in "anything" permit entry with or support entry players as they move up in the hobby. Those who want to do things better can do so because, of the easily available knowledge, in the web. One can actually start at, or near the top if the ability and willingness is, in the factor package.
This hobby as well as others must never forget their "newbees". Understanding and patience is needed, for the new wanna bees all the time. Gentle nudging and encouragement will bring on more good landlords than any other principle. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.
It's also about start up hobby money. Thousands can spend or will spend, for opening or start up investment, to test the hobby. The few that move up, to managed set ups come, from those who know success, or learn success principles along the way.
This forum and other web sites specialized in "anything" permit entry with or support entry players as they move up in the hobby. Those who want to do things better can do so because, of the easily available knowledge, in the web. One can actually start at, or near the top if the ability and willingness is, in the factor package.
This hobby as well as others must never forget their "newbees". Understanding and patience is needed, for the new wanna bees all the time. Gentle nudging and encouragement will bring on more good landlords than any other principle. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.
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Guest
I'll be honest here. I had been wanting martin housing for awhile but had been reluctant at about $100 for an aluminum house. When I found an S&K house for less than 1/3 of that, I bought it immediately (March last year). I always read instructions (so I know how things were intended to done.......then I do them the way I think they should be! Ha!) and included in the box was good info on the option of expanding housing to 6"x12" and other good advise about martin housing. There was enough there to drive me to the internet to find out more. I found this site in a day or two and found out all kinds of good info.
I attracted 2 pair last year so I was successful with my setup. This year I will have 3 poles and have spent over $100 for additional poles (not counting the house, or winch, or cable, etc.) so $100 sounds cheap. It's great that there are low cost options that function very well and are safe for martins.
The option of low cost, good housing to attract new landlords probably does more to grow this hobby and does more for martins than about anything I can think of.
I attracted 2 pair last year so I was successful with my setup. This year I will have 3 poles and have spent over $100 for additional poles (not counting the house, or winch, or cable, etc.) so $100 sounds cheap. It's great that there are low cost options that function very well and are safe for martins.
The option of low cost, good housing to attract new landlords probably does more to grow this hobby and does more for martins than about anything I can think of.
Price does have alot to do with it. Also the false advertising that companies do. I first bought a S&K 20 room house (Ranch I believe) Because on the box it talked about mosquito control. (which it did cut down on the bugs) After I put up the house I started my internet search and found a home. HERE!!!! I read every day I can. Since then I have added two gourds, I know only two :( and a T-14 that I built.
To the point. Wouldnt it be nice if PMCA would contact the companies that built the houses, at least the major ones for a start and have them place a pamplet in there about this site and real information about the PM. Now I think that would be a great starting place for the New people to get correct information and not let the houses become S&S breading grounds. Yes that would be very costly, but in the long run they could make a huge profit.
Just my 2 cents
Copper
To the point. Wouldnt it be nice if PMCA would contact the companies that built the houses, at least the major ones for a start and have them place a pamplet in there about this site and real information about the PM. Now I think that would be a great starting place for the New people to get correct information and not let the houses become S&S breading grounds. Yes that would be very costly, but in the long run they could make a huge profit.
Just my 2 cents
Copper