Stupid gourd question #6 7/8

[Robert McCallum]

Last year I grew gourds and made houses, at which my PMs turned up their noses this year. (Probably too small - about 8-9 inches). When making the gourd houses I removed the webs and seeds as instructed. Some had a layer of white stuff that wanted to come out and some that wanted to stay attached so I had some of each. I reasoned that it might be good insulation. (It looks as if it might be). Should it all be removed to provide more internal room? Growing some more this year and hope for larger gourds and better acceptance. My gourds had porches but not with non-skid surfaces which I will apply next year.

[Guest]

Robert,
Although many say that larger is better, an 8 inch gourd is still much larger than a trio compartment and in Tulsa you can get martins with a trio. I have had a trio castle for a number of years that established my colony. Three years ago I added 4 troyers on a new pole about ten feet from the trio and they were ignored except for a starling who made a one way trip inside and couldn't get out. Last year I added a dozen 10-11 inch naturals, all modified via the "Terry Washburn" tunnels. I also modified the troyers. Last year the scouts (3 pair) moved from the trio and took the troyers and later a few naturals were used.

This year all the gourds filled up (first the troyers and one SK then the naturals) and the second year birds had to go to the trio (which was highly modified last year to large compartments (I moved walls).

From my experience, I think tunnels with porches and traction is very good. As I said, the scouts are hogging up the modified troyers and ignoring the expanded trio compartments. The trio was my dads so I'm keeping it. Otherwise I'd throw it out or keep it just for sparrows!

For your question, I would pull out the white lining inside the natural gourds so that the soaking will be more effective. Also the white lining stuff will likely come loose later anyway and you might not want that happening while occupied.

I wouldn't be concerned that the gourds were not taken the first year.
I'd suggest you consider adding tunnels to your (smaller) naturals. It is work, but I enjoyed doing it. Actually, I have some extra tunnels and porches I can give you if you would like to try it. I'll be back in town this weekend so If you want you are welcome to drop by and pick them up, see my modified natural gourds and troyers. Now that I think about it, you might bring four of your existing naturals and we can just modify them by adding tunnels on them so that they are abailable this fall for house inspectors. Also if you'r not familiar with Terry Washburn's modification suggestions, I can burn you a CD copy of his instructions (from his old web site). Terry does not mind as I asked him. Really, You are welcome to drop by this weekend (Sat through Monday). You can private message me or look me up in the phone book. I live on south 31 west ave but leave a message prior to Sat morning indicating when you would like to drop over and I'll make myself available.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Robert, I agree with everything that Mike said, but I especially want to say that an 8 or 9 in gourd with a tunnel is quickly accepted at my place. The tunnel may have the same effect as a larger gourd, it gets the martins further away from the entrance.

I actually put up a 14-1/2in gourd with a tunnel, and about 99% of the gourds were full, but the 14-1/2in gourd was EMPTY, yet the martins took an 8in gourd with a tunnel right beside it.

My favorite size is about 9-1/2 to 12 in, as I like those sizes best.

[ron20m]

I'm thinking about adding a third house and making it a gourd house. Any reason you guys are using the natural? Objections to plastic?

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

The natural gourds have been around much longer than the plastics, and most people think the martins like them a bit better. They are cheaper if you grow your own, but the downside is that they require a lot of maintenance.

The plastic gourds are well accepted at my place, especially if I add a tunnel, so I have added tunnels to everything. There is very little maintenance to the plastic gourds so many people like that.

The question about which is best has been discussed many times. If you have an established colony, I really don't think it makes much difference what you put up, the martins will use it. The thing that I would rather stress than housing types is to talk about predators. We must try to stop the snakes, racoons, owls, starlings & sparrows, and if that is done, usually you will be very successful with any type of housing..The sparrows & starlings like houses much better than gourds. I quit using houses because of that.

[Guest]

jarwop,

If it's not too much trouble, I would like to have a copy of Terry Washburn's gourd modification suggestions. You can e-mail me at [email protected]

Or if it requires a CD, private mail me and I will give you my address and be happy to pay for CD and postage.

Has anyone here added a tunnel to an S&K Big Bo gourd? Anyone tried adding one of Sandy Bunn's tunnels to an S&K Big Bo gourd?

HogWild
Darryl Young

[Guest]

ron20m,

I think many would say one of three reasons:

1- The natural gourd is naturally better accepted by PM so if your trying to attract PM, add natural gourds.

2- Cost, The plastic gourd cost a bunch, especially when you put up 24-36 or 100 of them. Natural gourds can cost as much if you have to buy everything at retail (gourd, shipping, plastic jug for access hole, PVC for new entrances, paint....) But some folks can grow their own and are creative to obtain the other materials to keep the cost down.

3- SATISFACTION - If you grew it or built it and it is used you get a special warm feeling when you peek in on the little ones. Why build a baby crib for the first grandchild when you can buy one as cheeply? I remember the VET who did natural gourds last year. I would assume that money wasn't preventing buying plastic but I think there was alot of enjoyment in the end even though there was a lot of time and effort put into the project.

At this time, I'm moving to plastic. I have been traveling alot the last few years and my daughter has to manage my housing when I'm out of pocket. She has stated that the modified trio castle gets too many bugs and is hard to clean when she changes nests. The natural gourds with the added tunnels and access lids have too many crevices for the bugs too. She thinks the plastic Troyer gourds are eaiser to do nest changes and have fewer bug problems. She demands a quick release mounting so the gourd can be removed, cleaned, and renested. This is my next project.

[John Atteberry]

What do you mean by adding tunnels to plastic gourds and how? John!

[Guest]

HogWild,

I PMed you.

>>added a tunnel to an S&K Big Bo gourd ???

I have not done it but plan to this winter. Dave at S&K gave away some BIG Bo gourds for the "Great Stuff" test so I have one. No PM takers the first year but it was an early pick this year producing six. I removed the Great Stuff from all my plastic gourds this year.

My thoughts are mechanical mounting of the tunnel is very important. I don't trust any glue on plastic gourds. I use pop rivets on natural and plastic with good success. No sharp points inside and easy to drill out. I plan to use 4 inch thin wall plastic (PVC) pipe glued to PVC foam board that will be mounted inside the gourd with pop rivets. Excluder entrance with porches inside and out. Then a quick release mounting to get rid of the wire hangers.

[Guest]

HogWild,

I PMed you.

>>added a tunnel to an S&K Big Bo gourd ???

I have not done it but plan to this winter. Dave at S&K gave away some BIG Bo gourds for the "Great Stuff" test so I have one. No PM takers the first year but it was an early pick this year producing six. I removed the Great Stuff from all my plastic gourds this year.

My thoughts are mechanical mounting of the tunnel is very important. I don't trust any glue on plastic gourds. I use pop rivets on natural and plastic with good success. No sharp points inside and easy to drill out. I plan to use 4 inch thin wall plastic (PVC) pipe glued to PVC foam board that will be mounted inside the gourd with pop rivets. Excluder entrance with porches inside and out. Then a quick release mounting to get rid of the wire hangers.

[TreeGreenwood]

Has anyone here added a tunnel to an S&K Big Bo gourd? Anyone tried adding one of Sandy Bunn's tunnels to an S&K Big Bo gourd?

Darryl, use a 4" PVC coupler. The S&K entrance is 4" diameter so 4" PVC pipe is too small but the coupler is exactly right. I cut each side off and tossed the middle that has a ridge in it. That gave me two tunnels a bit longer than 3". PPCA holds them on. Here's one of my naturals.



The PVC coupler should work as a tunnel for the BigBo although I haven't tried it yet. My access hole in the natural is the top of a DeliCat cat food jug. It was a pain to put on so I'll be switching to the S&K access for this year's gourds. I suggested to Dave that S&K market a 'kit' for natural gourds that includes a tunnel, entrance and access port.

Take care,

Tree

[CUL Lou~Mich]

I've got a couple of S&K Big Bo gourds, and a couple of Sandy Bunns tunnels. I'm just waiting for a little free time, and I"m going to put them in. I've read where some folks have real good luck putting the tunnel in the side, so the PM has to enter, then make either a right or left turn. They seem to be more secure that way, since Owls, and hawks can't see into the nest area. I really like the idea of Pop Rivets. I've been leary of glues, and caulks, but hadn't thought of Pop Rivets. That sounds to be right up my alley. Thanks. CUL Lou

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I have used the ppca glue on the plastics, and it holds very good. In my opinion, it is so good, that nothing (Owls, racoons, etc) can pull it off. I pulled like 40 pounds of pressure on it, and it will not turn loose. I checked it after 1 years of use, and there is no sign of deterioation on it, and it still holds extremely well. I could not pull it off.

I used to use caulk, and I will never again use it, it does not hold well enough. Especially on naturals, caulk tends to release when the gourds get damp from rain or humidity.

If you like pop rivets, then that is fine, because we all have our own ideas, but for me, the ppca is so much faster & easier. I always look for the best easiest way to do things.

The 4in sewer pipe can be forced into the S&K gourds if you want to add a tunnel, but I sanded the gourd a bit to allow it to go into the opening. We did several for Adam, and I did several of my own. I even smeared a bit of ppca on it but it is such a tight fit that it may not have been necessary to use anything.

Also, I will start converting all of my gourds so that I can slide the gourds onto the racks, and I don't need to use wire to hang them. I use some 3/4 inch pvc pipe, and it works fine on 1/2in emt or 1/2in rebar. I like this method much better than tying the gourds, and the ppca holds the pvc pipe in place very well. This again is easier than tying all of them on. They will always hang just right if you put the pvc in at the right place. The gourds can be hung from the neck (As TreeGreenwood photo shows above) or you can go thru the top of the main body of the gourd. It shortens up the swing if you go thru the main body.