I live in Minnesota my hatch rate seems low 2011 I had 242 eggs 160 hatched 146 fledged. 2010 175 eggs 110 hatched and 103 fledged. the nests are not being abandoned there just not hatching. I have nests that will have 6 or 5 eggs and maybe only 1 or 2 will hatch and they will fledge these young. Some nests do great with 5 or 6 hatching. I was wondering if it has anything to do with cold weather when the female may take longer to find food before coming back to nest to incubate the eggs. I know other people in minnesota don't seem to have this problem. Kelly applegate mentioned it could be from a younger colony numbers may improve over time. This is my 5th year having martins. Just wondering if any one has any helpful thoughts on this.
Chadd
my hatch rate seems low ?
2007 2 pair, 9 eggs,6hatched, 5 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6208
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Cold weather and interrupt incubation, and cause hatch failure - perhaps that's why your hatch rate is a bit low. Your overall fledge rate of about 60% is not awful, certainly.
Hatch rates can be 80-90% during good weather, hopefully your site will have better results next year. You've got a nice size colony.
Hatch rates can be 80-90% during good weather, hopefully your site will have better results next year. You've got a nice size colony.
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ken buker
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 pm
- Location: Washington/Silver Lake
- Martin Colony History: Started backyard colony at Silver lake in June 2004 with single pair of SY martins. Built a nest, no eggs, they left by late July. Returned 2005 and colony grew to three pair successfully raising and fledging 15 healthy young. In 2018 this colony was 110 pair strong and thriving. Managed a small colony along the lower Columbia river west of Longview, WA for a few years prior to starting my colony at Silver Lake.
Hi Chad,
I’m guessing that in Minnesota, you have similar spring early summer weather to us here in Washington State.
I too have wondered if cool wet weather might result in lower hatch rate than normal, but as I’ve compared data for consecutive seasons from 2008 through 2011, I’ve concluded that our springs, in spite of what I might perceive them to be, have been pretty consistent and my hatch rate has remained very consistent at 92 – 94% for the last four years.
Late springs typically lead to hopefully having a nice summer in order to have a successful season. Since the season is condensed into a tighter window for incubation and rearing of nestlings it makes the season vulnerable to harsh weather casualties.
Your fledge rate to hatch rate is good with the exception of 2009. I suspect that was a not so good weather year when your martins were feeding new or young hatchlings.
I doubt it has much if anything to do with the age of your colony since it is well established and has grown nicely with each consecutive season. Surprisingly, I think micro climates in specific geographic locations can have quite different and dramatic influence. Here in the Northwest, I personally know that my inland colony in Silver Lake, fares much better than one I managed along the Columbia River some 30 miles away, and also much better than colonies in the Puget Sound area and BC Canada. No doubt directly related to available food supplies at the time.
I would be curious to know if you’ve ever checked the un-hatched eggs to see if they actually had developing embryos or perhaps were not fertile. I would think if it were related to inconsistent incubation, the eggs would at least be at some stage of development. It’s a tough issue to diagnose especially since it appears to be a pretty consistent (63%-67%) hatch rate for the years you’ve kept the data.
I believe that late springs with unfavorable weather also result in smaller egg clutches which is what I experienced in 2011. Surely the number of SY pair also effects size of the egg clutch. Interestingly, I had 54 pair compared to your 46, but total egg production for my colony was 255 compared to your 242 or 5.3/nest at your site compared to 4.7/nest at my site.
My fledge rate to hatch rate has been about the same as yours with a low of 81% in 2009, but generally in the 90% + range.
No real suggestions here, but I would sure be curious to hear what you might come up with or hear from others.
Ken Buker
I’m guessing that in Minnesota, you have similar spring early summer weather to us here in Washington State.
I too have wondered if cool wet weather might result in lower hatch rate than normal, but as I’ve compared data for consecutive seasons from 2008 through 2011, I’ve concluded that our springs, in spite of what I might perceive them to be, have been pretty consistent and my hatch rate has remained very consistent at 92 – 94% for the last four years.
Late springs typically lead to hopefully having a nice summer in order to have a successful season. Since the season is condensed into a tighter window for incubation and rearing of nestlings it makes the season vulnerable to harsh weather casualties.
Your fledge rate to hatch rate is good with the exception of 2009. I suspect that was a not so good weather year when your martins were feeding new or young hatchlings.
I doubt it has much if anything to do with the age of your colony since it is well established and has grown nicely with each consecutive season. Surprisingly, I think micro climates in specific geographic locations can have quite different and dramatic influence. Here in the Northwest, I personally know that my inland colony in Silver Lake, fares much better than one I managed along the Columbia River some 30 miles away, and also much better than colonies in the Puget Sound area and BC Canada. No doubt directly related to available food supplies at the time.
I would be curious to know if you’ve ever checked the un-hatched eggs to see if they actually had developing embryos or perhaps were not fertile. I would think if it were related to inconsistent incubation, the eggs would at least be at some stage of development. It’s a tough issue to diagnose especially since it appears to be a pretty consistent (63%-67%) hatch rate for the years you’ve kept the data.
I believe that late springs with unfavorable weather also result in smaller egg clutches which is what I experienced in 2011. Surely the number of SY pair also effects size of the egg clutch. Interestingly, I had 54 pair compared to your 46, but total egg production for my colony was 255 compared to your 242 or 5.3/nest at your site compared to 4.7/nest at my site.
My fledge rate to hatch rate has been about the same as yours with a low of 81% in 2009, but generally in the 90% + range.
No real suggestions here, but I would sure be curious to hear what you might come up with or hear from others.
Ken Buker
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Donnie Hurdt MN
- Posts: 1723
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:14 pm
- Location: North Prairie, MN
I had much better luck this year at my neighbors coloney in their wooden hausing and my plastic gourds, in spite of the cool spring, things got under way just as the weather was warming up. We enjoyed a very good year last summer and hope this comming season will be the same. 
PMCA member and Martin fanatic....
2011 A pair of subbies fledged three young but none returned in 2012
2015 One Pair of subbies came and stayed a few nits but got chased away by Bluebirds and Tree swallows.
2017 0ne pair of subbies nested and fledged 4 young
2018 Tree Swallows AGAIN chased away any martins that wanted to nest
2019 Same old story................
2011 A pair of subbies fledged three young but none returned in 2012
2015 One Pair of subbies came and stayed a few nits but got chased away by Bluebirds and Tree swallows.
2017 0ne pair of subbies nested and fledged 4 young
2018 Tree Swallows AGAIN chased away any martins that wanted to nest
2019 Same old story................
ken 2009 was a terrible year for fledging young we had a long cold snap when there was a lot of young in nests I pulled a lot of dead young out that year.
Thats a good idea to check eggs after they miss hatch date I usually wait a while before I throw them out. The eggs that have broke open when throwing them away actual I have never seen anything but liquid in them.
Donnie glad to hear you had a good year I eventually would like to have my colony in almost all t-14's and less gourds right now I have 44 gourds and two t-14's. As my colony gets bigger those trays sure make for a lot easier work doing nest changes those gourds take a lot more time. I think the wood house would be warmer in colder weather too. Problem is those martins seem to prefer the gourds?
Louise thanks for the reply I wish there was a good way to heat a t-14 in cold weather besides the hand warmers some kind of electric element that you control with a t stat that you could have fail proof so you don't cook my martins either may be a low wattage element that can not get to hot. I have not seen anything on the market that would work yet. Its either to high of wattage or its ice melt cable I don't know the temp off that stuff
Thats a good idea to check eggs after they miss hatch date I usually wait a while before I throw them out. The eggs that have broke open when throwing them away actual I have never seen anything but liquid in them.
Donnie glad to hear you had a good year I eventually would like to have my colony in almost all t-14's and less gourds right now I have 44 gourds and two t-14's. As my colony gets bigger those trays sure make for a lot easier work doing nest changes those gourds take a lot more time. I think the wood house would be warmer in colder weather too. Problem is those martins seem to prefer the gourds?
Louise thanks for the reply I wish there was a good way to heat a t-14 in cold weather besides the hand warmers some kind of electric element that you control with a t stat that you could have fail proof so you don't cook my martins either may be a low wattage element that can not get to hot. I have not seen anything on the market that would work yet. Its either to high of wattage or its ice melt cable I don't know the temp off that stuff
2007 2 pair, 9 eggs,6hatched, 5 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6208
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
I know of one landlord who uses bird bath heaters - the kind that resemble foil pie pans - but I don't have any info as to how much heat they generate, and require cords and extensions. I would be hesitant to suggest heating with that method when eggs are in nest unless some info about temps is known.
Charlie McEwen, the landlord from New Brunswick & FL who developed the original crescent SREH, used greenhouse heat tape in one pm house in NB - he had a thermostat hooked up to it, placed where he could easily monitor it (reset the thermostat to control the temp put out by the heat tape).
He ran into a problem one year - perhaps due to nearby lightning, the thermostat and system got stuck on a high setting when he was away for a few days. There were eggs in the nests and the heat was too high - they got 'hard-boiled' and none hatched.
I was kind of surprised our first martin of 2011 survived - we had day after day with temps in high 20s/low 30s. We put two handwarmers in the gourds he chose and closed the others. Put some crickets in them too, and on porches & in tunnels (more good advice from John Miller) and know he ate some. But five days of awfully cold temps - and still he survived somehow. It's always worth trying to help them.
At least T-14s and other wooden houses have a lot of insulation value to begin with. The greenhouse tape or those flexible bird bath warmers might be worth checking into.
Charlie McEwen, the landlord from New Brunswick & FL who developed the original crescent SREH, used greenhouse heat tape in one pm house in NB - he had a thermostat hooked up to it, placed where he could easily monitor it (reset the thermostat to control the temp put out by the heat tape).
He ran into a problem one year - perhaps due to nearby lightning, the thermostat and system got stuck on a high setting when he was away for a few days. There were eggs in the nests and the heat was too high - they got 'hard-boiled' and none hatched.
I was kind of surprised our first martin of 2011 survived - we had day after day with temps in high 20s/low 30s. We put two handwarmers in the gourds he chose and closed the others. Put some crickets in them too, and on porches & in tunnels (more good advice from John Miller) and know he ate some. But five days of awfully cold temps - and still he survived somehow. It's always worth trying to help them.
At least T-14s and other wooden houses have a lot of insulation value to begin with. The greenhouse tape or those flexible bird bath warmers might be worth checking into.
I thought I should give an update on my hatch rate. this year I had a 85% hatch rate best ever by far 81% fledge rate. Fledged out 4.25 per nest. 60pair 311 eggs, 265 hatched, 255 fledged. Feels kind of good knowing with a 4.25 fledge rate per nest that my colony may actually had a year to increase local population. years past my colony had been growing but fledge per nest was not great probably break even to a small increase.
Chadd- MN PMWG member
Chadd- MN PMWG member
2007 2 pair, 9 eggs,6hatched, 5 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged
2008 11 pair
2009 26 pair 127 eggs, 80 hatched, 38 fledged
2010 36 pair 175 eggs, 110 hatched, 103 fledged
2011 46 pairs 242 eggs,160 hatched,146 fledged
2012 60 pairs 311 eggs,265 hatched, 255 fledged