Is this a subbie

[Guest]

Hi, I have 2 birds like this hanging around since last week, Thought I would get an expert opinion , So, what do you think?? Sorry I couldn't get a better pic, but i think they are camera shy, they keep flying away when I take their pics


Colleen

[Louise Chambers]

Hi Colleen - the top photo looks like an adult female (very gray underneath) unless it has black feathers somewhere that don't show in photo. Does it sing the male song, with clicky sound at end? If it does it would be an SY male.

the second photo, since it doesn't show under the tail, is harder to guess at, but I don't see any dark feathers to suggest an SY male, and would call it an adult female too - but I could be wrong

Maybe you'll have a chance to get shot of area under tail on that second bird. Are these your only birds at present? We are looking for subbie birds here but haven't spotted any yet - but it's hard to get a look. At nighttime they come in fast, since Cooper's Hawk is still around. In AM they are around some but very busy chasing each other around and not sitting a lot.

Louise

I'm adding a link to an article from Update called Tattletails, that offers good photos and tips of what to look for to help sex & age martins.

http://www.purplemartin.org/update/Tattletails11(4).pdf

and also this excerpt from that article to emphasize that females can be difficult to age (you bet we can! but why the females are referred to as 'difficult' at all is beyond me....Note: this post edited several times, since I kept changing my mind.)
"ASY-F (after second year female = adult female, 2 years old
or older): The crissum of adult females is also quite variable.
Most adult female martins have a crissum like this individual,
with lots of rich brown coloring on the feather vanes
themselves. A few adult females have a crissum with only faint
brown feather vanes. When aging ?difficult? females, it?s best
to use the bird?s entire plumage (including the bird?s back color)."

[Dave S (Texas)]

These appear to be females. Hard to tell whether they are ASYs or SYs. ASY females can be idenifed by their under-tail feathers. Those feathers will have gray centers, while the SY females will have all white feathers under the tail.

[Guest]

Thanks for your replies, I am glad I am not the only one having trouble identifying (s) them.
The birds do have white underneath them, But it is hard to tell if they have white with darker feathers in their tail. I will try and get some better pictures tonight when they "come home"


Colleen

[Louise Chambers]

Colleen,

The new photo you sent has been added - this shows undertail area much better and the amount of gray indicates this is also an ASY female. SYs will not have any gray except possibly for feather shaft.

Louise

[Guest]

Thanks for you help Louise

Colleen