clean out old nesting material?

[Guest]

Should I shove all the old twigs and stuff out of the nest boxes?

Pro: "This stuff is old and dirty. It should go to the dry cleaner or be thrown out."

Con: "Hey! We worked hard collecting all those twigs last year! "

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Martins like the old nesting material. This year, I let it dry good, then dumped out all the small stuff and left the large long sticks in the nest. Those long sticks come from pecan leaves. They filled the nests with it last year, so I let it stay. We had a dry summer so the nests were not messy.

I have cleaned them out with a pressure washer, but it certainly is not necessary to clean them. Some years I scrape out the nesting material and then wash them out wtih a hose.

If the nests are soggy and stink, then I clean them out good

[Guest]

I too leave mine if the nest is dry at the end of the season.I have a couple of females who are tidying things up already by tossing out what they don't want .

dick

[Linda Reynolds]

morgan, you might want to read some of the information on this post before deciding to leave old nesting material in your housing.

http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... ht=#144086

There are two theories on this issue, leave it or remove it........It is pretty simply, but you should seriously consider what insects, mites or bugs might be over-wintering in that used material. You also might want to consider treating the nest with Sevin if you decide to leave the old nesting material in place.

Sorry to disagree with your *Con*, as martins are not lazy birds and like to add fresh material each season, but if the base is infested, they might suffer. If a landlord provides a new pre-nest base, the martins will still top off the nest with material of their choice, but you can be sure mites, fleas and other bugs will not have over-wintered and pose a problem in the spring.

[Joe Creason KY]

Morgan, I totally agree with what Linda Reynolds said. Parasites, bugs and mites can winter even in the harshest temps and still come back to be a thorn the the martins side. As Linda stated, tearing out the old nesting material and stating fresh is the way to go.

Each year I tear out all of the old nesting in the Fall before I store the gourds for the winter. In the spring I put a quarter teaspoon of Sevin dust in each gourd and take a latex glove that I wear and smear the Sevin dust around in the bottom of the gourd. The glove keeps you from coming in direct contact with the dust. I try and keep the dust in the lower fourth of the gourd. Then I add a heaping handful of pine needles and try to place them into a bowl shape. This procedure has worked well for me in the past few years.

I also like to have a complete nest change through out the year when all of the birds have hatched, of course you cannot change them all at the same time due to the hatching dates. Usually I do place Sevin dust in the gourds when I make the nest change again. This really helps to keep the insect and parasites in check.

So you can choose your own way. I am not saying one is better than the other, I just know what has worked for me.

Happy Martin year, Joe

[Linda Reynolds]

Joe, and others, first let me say, we clean out our gourds at the end of each season, wash out the gourds and clean them of the debris and cuticles from the feathers. (That stuff is yucky!) We then store the gourds for the winter and provide clean pre-nest material in the form of pine needles at the beginning of each season.

In addition, at the beginning of the season, when our martins first arrive (because they bring mites with them), at the time of our first nest inspection, we place a 1/4 tsp of 5% Sevin powder into each cavity. We place it near the entry and then tap in down into the nesting material. After egg laying begins, we then again treat with another 1/4 tsp of 5% Sevin powder and tap it down again. After than we treat only when needed, and thank goodness it has never been needed for our martins.

A few years ago, we were not so lucky with one of our bluebird houses, as one day during a nest cleanout, we found it infested with mites. Thank goodness the second brood in that nest had successfully fledged, and were not infested. We never thought the bluebirds would be infected with mites, as we provide clean nesting inserts and provide clean pre-nest after each brood fledges. We normally experience three brood per pair in each house each season.

Two years ago, we experienced an awful mite infestation in one of our barn swallow nests that are built on platforms in our front entry alcove. Those poor babies........they were covered with mites as were the nests, shelves, and walls. Unfortunately I had to remove the young before treating the nest, and it was quite a challenge. I will never again, wait to treat those nests. I now clean out the interior of each nest before the barnies arrive, and will now treat with 5% Sevin dust prior to their arrival. Barn swallows use the old mud nest that they built in previous seasons and they repair the nest structure as needed.........This is just another reason to be cautious of OLD nesting material harboring over-winter threats. Thank goodness for 5% Sevin dust.........I have never used the liquid form, but know that other landlords have. I use, and trust the dust.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I failed to mention that I do add some sevin dust to the gourds before I hang them, and then monitor them during the later part of the season for mites. I usually don't have any mites, but some do show up occasionally, then its time to add a bit more sevin. That is so effective, you don't need much Sevin dust, a 1/4 teaspoon full is usually enough, I put it under the nesting material.

[Spiderman]

We clean out our nestboxes every year and add 5% Sevin dust prior ot the Martins arrival in the spring.

It's a messy job but so far we have never had any problems with mites, so to me it is worth the trouble..

[billb]

Easy decision for me. Waited a couple months with house lowered and mushrooms started growing! Don't think they were edible!

Of course, I have never added nesting material to my aluminium house. All Martin gathered mulch, sticks, & mud. Added 3 gourds and filled to tunnel height w/pine needles this season. Will see how this turns out. Now I just need some Martins.

[Guest]

I usually wait two to three weeks after I see none hanging around to lower my house. What I do is spray the entire house with a mixture of chlorox and water in a sprayer. I let it try all open two to three days. I keep it lowered all winter til the first week of February. I repeat the spraying, let it set open a couple of days killing any bugs, mites, or any other mildew that would grow. I rinse it off with freshwater, raise it up and enjoy. I have never had any problem with this process.

[CHenry]

Good read, i have some seven dust, i just need to use it tonight before they show up! I already put fresh pine needls in my new gourds so I'm ready except for the Seven.

[jasmemphis]

And I do mean hay, not straw. I don't have any pine straw right now and I live in Memphis, TN and think it will be soon when the martins show up. Thanks in advance for your answers. - Jolene

[Joe Zorn]

I never have a problem stripping out all the old nesting materials after a season is over. Everything gets evicted. The cavity scraped clean, and washed up as well as possible. Some disinfectant and/or Seven Dust put back into the empty gourd, cavity, or house room, than I insert the plugs in the entrances. Everything but natural gourds stay up year round.

In January, I reverse the process. First blow out or clean out everything, then clean and disinfect if necessary. Then put Seven Dust and leaves and/or pine needles back into all of the cavities before the martins show up.

After that, it's up to the birds what they bring in. The only thing taken out after that is whatever sparrows jam into a cavity. I have really seen some strang things in martin nest, and sparrow nests for that matter.

[Caroline94535-ND]

I took the suggestion of "cleaning gourds at the end of the season" to heart. I clean them, LOL!

I leave the gourds and rack up until after the Canadian martins have fledged. I wait two more weeks. I want every migrating Purple Martin to have the opportunity to see my site. LOL By now it's past the middle of September and I have to work fast because it might snow! Seriously.

I haul a trash bag out to the pole and empty each gourd into it. I wear gloves (old clothes and a face mask) and scrape out all the stuff. I have an old serving spoon I use to scrape off as much dried matter as I can. I cut off the hanging wires.

I pile the gourds in the wheelbarrow and bring them closer to the house. I have a huge yellow bucket that will hold a large, tunneled gourd completely submerged. I fill that with water, bleach, and Mr. Clean. I plop a gourd in and let it soak for at least an hour, sometimes longer.

I pull the liners from the access ports and soak both pieces in the bucket, too.

After soaking, I use the hose and a nylon scrubby to remove any dirt. It then goes down to the basement where it's inspected and rinsed again in the utility sink. It's dunked in another bleach solution for at least 15 minutes, and then hung from the basement rafters to wait for spring.

I will use 8-16 gourds this year. It really doesn't take too long to get them clean and stored in the basement. I do what I can every day. If I get four done in a day, I'm happy.

My PMs used only four gourds last season so the "clean up" was a breeze. Even the unused gourds get a quick soak in clean, soapy water and a bleach rinse "just in case".

I don't let the natural gourds soak nearly as long, and I dip them in a weaker bleach solution.

[Julio]

I always perform a full nest cleanup, tear-out,i do however leave the walls of the compartments as is. In other words i don't remove dirt markings, martins prefer a worn out look.

[april57]

Up in the north here we get terrible infestations of blowflys. We clean out the nests and then my husband torched the inside of each cavity to get rid of the mites also...It was crawling. I did nest changes and the babies had blowflys attached to them lots of blood on the side walls..I was soooo sick. Then we burned those nests and put in fresh. This year I am trying to get ahead of the game...so very important here to remove the old nests each year...

[Scully]

Certainly there is no reason for a martin landlord NOT to clean out nesting cavities at the end of the season especially of they put in substitute nesting material the following spring.

In the past we have just cleaned ours and left them empty. The effect on the martins of having to build a nest from scratch might be considerable. Certainly a martin nest can contain at least a few hundred separate items, each collected and brought to the nest individually.

Also, martins, just like great-crested flycatchers, appear to fill the cavity with nesting material to within a couple of inches of the entrance, such that a Supergourd for example, will contain much more material that one of those little rectangular Bo gourds. If each separate nest item takes just one minute to gather, the time and energy cost to the martin pair could still be considerable.

The thoughts about old nests harboring last year's parasites are well founded. One thing I have noticed however is that if we do leave an old nest in place, by the following year before the martins return that nest contains a diverse array of mites and springtails (tiny insects), even though the nests are suspended 15 feet or more above the soil. It seems probable that some of these other little critters might be mite predators.

This year, for the first time ever we left some old nests in place. I am curious to see if this makes any difference. After all, some nests each year get onerous mite infestations, others in the same colony and even on the same gourd pole do not.

Mike Scully

[Joe Zorn]

Hey Mike,
Very good point about the PM's having to refill the larger gourds and nest cavities with a LOT more material than they do the smaller cavities. I have never given that any thoughts.

After this thread was started back in January, and reading over some of the posts here and elsewhere, I decided to change my tactic on nest materials.

Above, back in January, I said that I always clean out the nests, and scrub it all well. Then put in pre-nesting materials.

This spring I did nothing. Not a leaf or pine needle. In any cavity. I have 89 different cavities on 4 poles.

What a mess the martins make of their nests. I never dreamed they were such poor nest builders. Sticks, mud, grass, pine needles, leaves.... more. Thankfully they haven't learned from the sparrows and put in cigarette butts, gum wrappers, strings and ribbons of endless varieties.

This year, I am going to try not to do any nest changes. I'll use Seven dust if mites get bad. Last year, with less than a week left in my last nest that had babies, I got a nest of mites. Jumpers resulted. I dusted the gourd on the OUTSIDE with sevin, as well as the porch landing. Next day, the mites were gone. It was so hot, but the babies stayed until normal fledge day after that.

I'm not much into big cavities. My gourds are no more than about 10". Most are a bit smaller. I do have one Bo11 for beta testing at my site....for my own satisfaction. We'll see what happens there.

But many old established landlords of 20+ years experience are telling me that they don't remove nests each year. Just going to have to wait and see what the nest looks like in late June. Usually the pine needles and oak leaves I put in are packed tight by season's end.

Before I started bringing my equipment up and down with winches, they stayed up year round. I NEVER cleaned out nests. Each year, the martins filled them up. I guess they tore out what they didn't want or put in some more. I just don't know.

It's a new tactic I am going to try. I am not convinced that I am doing the birds a favor by ripping out their nests each year.

Joe

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Joe, that is why I left most of the large sticks that the martins brought into the gourds, they seemed clean to me, so why make the martins redo that part of the nest. I am anxious to see how they will look at the end of the season. The gourds probably will be heavier.

[John Miller]

Mike wrote

"following year before the martins return that nest contains a diverse array of mites and springtails (tiny insects), even though the nests are suspended 15 feet or more above the soil. It seems probable that some of these other little critters might be mite predators."

Mike -- Not sure I look forward to you validating what old timers do. But if you do, I'll swallow my pride and leave some old nests.

To further stir the pot, a martin friend recently cleaned out a set of plastic gourds that had been taken down over winter, but hung up a few weeks prior with old sparrow nests and martin nests intact. The sparrows were nesting again already, and had not touched the gourds with old martin nests. It's probably that they rebuilt in their old nests -- but then again.. Of course it's all clean now.

Also..these old nests may clog drainage holes in plastic gourds and cause wood housing to rot, and hardware to rust in aluminum housing. But back to "springtails"...if attracting them helps, I'll leave a few old nests.

John M