feral cats

[Guest]

Hi all,
It's been a long cold winter here in nw.pa.We still have another month
before we see any martins up here.I have a few feral cats staying out in my shed,will they keep the martins away.This will be my 35th year trying to get martins.They are here off and on all summer but they just won't nest.There a colony 1 1/2 miles down the from me,they lost 9 last year
from the cold. They only had 14 to start with,so I don't know if they will get any back year.
Good Luck To All
Don

[flyin-lowe]

I don't know that the cats will keep them away but I would not want them around while the birds might be fighting over cavities as they often can go to the ground. Also as the birds are beginning to fly it could be dangerous also.

[Veronica G]

Don: We've got LOTS if feral cats in the neighborhood. I've never seen them bother the martins, but I still keep my eye on them. We've begun trapping them because they make it really hard for us to trap sparrows in our repeating bait trap. Once they find a bird in there they will not leave the trap alone, and the sparrows stay as far away as possible after that. So, to answer your question, I don't think they'd keep the martins away, but they might be dangerous when the birds start to come to the ground to pick up nesting material, or if nestlings start jumping, etc.

Veronica

[djmains]

Martins come here to nest and raise young anything that would make them unsussefful in nesting or predators in close proxsemitry would deter them from staying and having young when I was trying to get a martin colony established I ask a amish man why I couldn't get martins to stay and the first thing he ask me is do you have any cats around.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

We don't have a ferral cat problem. There are a few house cats that the neighbors have. I don't let them stay in our yard at daytime, our dog also makes sure of that, but birds and outside cats do not mix well. We had a cat that succeeded in catching some of our hummingbirds. We probably will not get another cat for that reason. The ferral cats just destroy so many birds in some cases. If you don't want those ferral cats, if you don't feed them, then I would get rid of them in a hurry.

Cat lovers should be responsible, they should keep their cats in the house, or at least make sure that the cats don't bother the neighbors. We have a dog, we don't let it run from yard to yard and bother other people, he stays in the house most of the time, or in our own yard. Cats are more difficult, they can climb fences and go whereever they wish.

Our martins are very afraid of cats, they always have been..When we had a cat, they were always diving at the cat, trying to get it to move. That can even give a hawk a chance to catch the martins while their attention is on the cat. Hawks like to attack at such times.

[starling shooter]

Feral cats probably won't keep the PMs away.....

However, they will keep all the shrub and ground nesting birds away. Say goodbye to Cardinals, Mockingbirds, Chipping Sparrows, baby blue birds, little robins and the like.

Very few things as destructive to native birds than feral cats. I've got a neighbor who has a large honeysuckle bush that his cat hides under. It has perfected catching hummingbirds. He doesn't seem to care in the slightest.

[Daniel Airola]

My situation is somewhat different from most of you, as I "manage" colonies of western PM nesting in bridges in Sacramento, CA. Someone establish a feeding site for a feral cat colony near the place where martins collected nesting material. Before I found the feeding station, I saw one female martin taken on the ground, and at other times saw cats stalking martins. This colony declined by two-thirds from 32 to 11 pairs over 2 years, a decline that was much greater than I observed at any of 11 other colonies over a 5-year period. I concluded that feral cat predation was the primary cause of the decline.

I finally found where the feeding was occurring and got rid of it before last season, but it was not easy to do. From my limited experience, cat colony people are as dedicated as martin enthusiasts, but less genial. Unfortunately, after cat removal the colony declined again last year, as part of a larger scale decline. It was down to 6 pairs last year. I am hoping for a rebound, but low reproduction last year, presumably due to drought, does not bode well for the Sacramento population.

So my advice is get rid of the cats, for the martins and other birds.

[Guest]

Some of you honestly believe that cats can decimate a martin colony or keep them from nesting ? Are your martins a lot dumber or slower than mine. Do they walk around your yard like chickens or what? And are your cats some sort of trapeze artists or part of a high wire act that they can even get at your colony? If your housing is located out in the open as it should be and you have your predator guards (not that a cat can even climb a steel or aluminum pole anyway) what do you have to worry about any more than any other ground dwelling predator? I would worry a lot more about raccoons, snakes and ants. And in fact I would worry a hell of a lot more about owls, hawks and the neighbor kid with a pellet gun and the weather than a damn cat. I live in the country surrounded by farm after farm and there are bundles of cats. They have not affected my colony at all. There is a lot of other things to worry about without waisting your time worrying about cats. Cats? You gotta be kidding.

[John Miller]

I worry about cats.

In a very open area -- fields around a farm house -- cats may be less of a threat. But martins are very vulnerable on the ground, especially in less than open ground.

One of the often overlooked requirements for a martin colony is some open ground where they can gather nest material and "grit." One of the public sites I'm helping to manage in St. Louis city is the Missouri Botanical Garden. There's almost no open ground where the martins can safely land. They gather outside the garden on the ground along some railroad tracks -- this essentially is a big alley in the city and there are cats and I have not seen it, but I think cats have taken some of the martins. I don't think the cats will decimate this small colony, but they take a toll, and if I recall from some of Dan's past posts, there may be a similar situation with the Sacramento martins. Maybe us city folks should just move to the country. I could be convinced and I like cheese (grin).

Anyway..that's the thing. Martins ideally need an open area to land. (not a busy parking lot or road either) Many landlords are putting up the elevated trays to offer nesting material and eggshells safely off this ground for this reason.

John Miller

[loco for purple]

Cats and birds don't mix PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!. If you think
otherwise you are kidding your self. My INDOOR cat Fionna
is constantly banging at the window trying to get
the feeder birds. She sits there for hours pretend
stalking. She is also well fed, but that instinct that
all cats have won't allow her to leave the window.
I won't allow feral cats in my yard-they are quickly
given the message to leave. And if you have alot of
feral cats around a martin colony I'm betting some
birds are lost every year to these cats either adults or fledgings
,remember not all predation is seen.....DON'T BE IN DENIAL...

[Guest]

In areas where cats can use cover to get close to martins when they are foraging for calcium all you have to do is put up an elevated platform. Some 2'by 4's ,drainage holes to let out any excess water after rain and presto. The elevation also gives the martins a better view of any ground dwelling predators. In a public area you'd have to go with something made of steel I would think. Hooligans would vandalize anything else I'm afraid.

[Donnie Hurdt MN]

To make a long story short, I live in the country and a lot of the feral cats that come on to my property after my yard birds wind up a foot or so under my property.

[Guest]

I believe I probably do lose a martin or two a year to cats. My point was that out of all the things to worry about, cats are not even in the top ten. And if you are doing what you can do to stop predation ( ground and air ) cats would just fall into this category. Cats actually live in my barn. They have not stopped the Barnies from nesting in there for the last umpteen years. In fact, I would hazard to guess that Barn Swallows will be nesting in barns that cats live in long after we're gone. And those same cats will occasionally eat them. And the neighbor kid will shoot a martin and they will get eaten by hawks and owls and get hit by cars and freeze to death and die by disease. And I am still not going to worry about any damn cat eating any of my martins. I guess I am just in DENIAL! Wow.

[Guest]

Get er done.

[DRO]

I look at it in the bigger picture in regards to ALL birds - Feral cats are a problem! As to house cats, they are house cats when inside, when they are out and about not on a leash, they are predators. As many people noted, cats will kill any birds they get a chance to whether they are well fed or not - hunters by nature, they will stalk and kill for sport.

In the country, I would eliminate feral cats. Within a city, you can usually borrow a live trap from animal control and have them remove the problem cats.

[Donnie Hurdt MN]

I agree. Our house cat spends many hours in front of the windows watching the birds crouched down and his tail twiching.

[Guest]

I live in the country and I hate cats, period. They certainly kill other birds and break up nests on the ground even if not PM. Folks sometimes throw them out on my road and they wind up at my house. They soon have a head on collision with a .22 projectile. I know there are many other predators but those except for coyotes were here first. I don't kill natural predators not even snakes (I relocate the snakes) but feral cats are not part of nature's plan.

[starling shooter]

The reason Barn Swallows are so successful in old barns..even with cats nearby is they adapted to nesting on the floor joist of a barn loft. The floor joists are typically 6' or more off the ground. No way possible for a cat or black snake to get to them. It was the perfect predator proof nesting locatin.

A black snake can climb up practically anything....they can not climb horizontally on a floor joists.

Unfortunately, no one uses square bales to feed cattle anymore. Barns with lofts are a thing of the past. Old barns with lofts are coming down at a staggering rate. Soon, they will be just things of the past.

If a Barn Swallow nests in a pole barn or garage, they are easy pickings for a cat or black snake.

The good ol' days for the Barn Swallow are in the rear view mirror.

[djmains]

so really!!!!!!!! if you want martins get rid of your cats you cannot have both if you don't have an established colony and once you have an established colony watch them like a hawk they will kill song birds and your martins whenever the opptunity fits.