While at home today for lunch, I saw what I thought was a nestling on the porch of one of my houses. That compartment had 6 babies due to fledge any day. Naturally, I thought one had left the nest.
I let the house down to find an ASY female dead. When I opened that side their were no babies. The eggs in the adjascent holes gone. No eggs or babies in any hole.......
I opened the last door and there he was A 5 foot rat snake in my LS Alamo....He had clean out the house entirely and I guess was asleep. I pulled him out, shot his head off, shot him in two and ran out of shotgun shells.
He went over a stove pipe type designed guard that was purchased with the house. BE CAREFUL DO NOT ASSUME THAT THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am removing the rest of my predator guards and going with netting...............I just wish.........Oh never mind.
Alert!!! Do not trust predator guards for rat snakes!!!!!!
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Sam Fertitta
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 am
- Location: Leesville, Louisiana
Pmca is solely responsible for ending a ten year drought to start a colony. Many Many Thanks!!!
Hey Sam, I feel your pain. We had the exact same thing happen last year. 6 rat snakes got past the PMCA guard that was installed correctly(over 4ft off the ground). They weren't all big either(from 2-6ft). Luckily I had the netting above the guards just in case. One even somehow got around the netting and ate 2 martins. I caught him coming down the pole. I wouldn't however take the guards off completely, just add the netting above them. The stovepipe guards are very effective against raccoons. Good luck.
Mike
Mike
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Guest
Would a "lampshade" design out of metal flashing work better than the slender guards?
All of the wood duck boxes down here have this style guard on them. It sticks out and down away from the pole like a lampshade sitting on a lamp. It protrudes 12-20 inches from the pole, depending on how you make it.
This one is "squared" to fit a square post. Others are round. You get the idea. The bottom sticks out about 12 inches from the pole. Makes it more difficult for a snake to reach out a foot and over the guard.
All of the wood duck boxes down here have this style guard on them. It sticks out and down away from the pole like a lampshade sitting on a lamp. It protrudes 12-20 inches from the pole, depending on how you make it.
This one is "squared" to fit a square post. Others are round. You get the idea. The bottom sticks out about 12 inches from the pole. Makes it more difficult for a snake to reach out a foot and over the guard.
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The Olsons
- Posts: 3200
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:57 pm
- Location: North Padre Island, TX
Sam,
This is just sooooo sad; I am so sorry that this had to happen to you and your martins. You must be totally heartbroken. However, you did the best you could, you put up a predator guard that came with the housing and trusted it. What else could you do? So please do not blame yourself; I think it is a good idea to add the netting and I will certainly have a look at that myself. Again, my heart goes out to you and I am sending you good thoughts to get through this very sad experience.
Astrid
This is just sooooo sad; I am so sorry that this had to happen to you and your martins. You must be totally heartbroken. However, you did the best you could, you put up a predator guard that came with the housing and trusted it. What else could you do? So please do not blame yourself; I think it is a good idea to add the netting and I will certainly have a look at that myself. Again, my heart goes out to you and I am sending you good thoughts to get through this very sad experience.
Astrid
very sorry for your loss....
I had the same experience. The first year I bought some housing from PMCA and added a predator guard to the pole, however, I didn't realize that a multi-level approach might be required.
The first year I lost half of my PM's (one pair), and the 2nd year about 3 pair with eggs before I understood the problem. Snakes had NO problem getting around the predator guard. It was disastrous.
With the help of my friends in this group, I was able to solve the problem.
Bird Netting is cheap. Take no chances! Put the entire roll around the pole. There can never be too much netting.
2005 9 snakes
2006 4 snakes
2007 4 snakes (so far)
geezer
I had the same experience. The first year I bought some housing from PMCA and added a predator guard to the pole, however, I didn't realize that a multi-level approach might be required.
The first year I lost half of my PM's (one pair), and the 2nd year about 3 pair with eggs before I understood the problem. Snakes had NO problem getting around the predator guard. It was disastrous.
With the help of my friends in this group, I was able to solve the problem.
Bird Netting is cheap. Take no chances! Put the entire roll around the pole. There can never be too much netting.
2005 9 snakes
2006 4 snakes
2007 4 snakes (so far)
geezer
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Guest
Which predastor guard are we talking about here. I purchased two from PMCA that are a similar design as described. I would hate to think that it is one in the same.
dick
dick
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Sam,
I am really sorry for the snake predation incident. The problem with some cylinder guards is that they have a seam to connect them or they have protruding nuts/bolts. Any seam or protrusion on the outer surface can give a rat snake something to "hold on to". The rat snake's belly scales can "stick" to many surfaces. A seam may provide a coarsened surface for the snake to crawl up and just a tiny line of it is all that is needed. Also, any nut/bolt sticking out is easily grasped by the snake's belly scales or muscular coils.
The best type of cylinder guard is a seamless one and PVC pipe usually provides the slickest surface. You can wax the PVC to make it even slicker. Metal cylinders can weatherized over a period of time and provide a coarsened surface which gives traction for any rat snake.
The netting will usually catch most rat snakes and the 3/4 inch mesh is probably the best all around size for the majority of snakes. I have caught most of my big rat snakes 3 feet and over with this size. The girth of the rat snake is the key factor here. Small thin rat snakes can sometimes weave through it and I have caught these in 1/2 inch mesh, but this netting is often hard to find locally and it is very expensive over the Internet.
We folks in the Deep South have many rat snakes, primarily black, gray, yellow and red (corn) and they are crawling right now and looking for prey. A martin colony is a prime candidate because there is so much of the martins' scent disbursed around the area to arouse the snakes. The snake uses its Jacobson's organ in the roof of its mouth to locate prey by smell and then guide him/her to the food source.
So make sure your housing poles have a good amount of netting and you can even place a wreath of it at the base. I have caught rat snakes at this point. You can buy the netting at places like WalMart, home improvement stores, or garden centers.
Good luck.
Steve
I am really sorry for the snake predation incident. The problem with some cylinder guards is that they have a seam to connect them or they have protruding nuts/bolts. Any seam or protrusion on the outer surface can give a rat snake something to "hold on to". The rat snake's belly scales can "stick" to many surfaces. A seam may provide a coarsened surface for the snake to crawl up and just a tiny line of it is all that is needed. Also, any nut/bolt sticking out is easily grasped by the snake's belly scales or muscular coils.
The best type of cylinder guard is a seamless one and PVC pipe usually provides the slickest surface. You can wax the PVC to make it even slicker. Metal cylinders can weatherized over a period of time and provide a coarsened surface which gives traction for any rat snake.
The netting will usually catch most rat snakes and the 3/4 inch mesh is probably the best all around size for the majority of snakes. I have caught most of my big rat snakes 3 feet and over with this size. The girth of the rat snake is the key factor here. Small thin rat snakes can sometimes weave through it and I have caught these in 1/2 inch mesh, but this netting is often hard to find locally and it is very expensive over the Internet.
We folks in the Deep South have many rat snakes, primarily black, gray, yellow and red (corn) and they are crawling right now and looking for prey. A martin colony is a prime candidate because there is so much of the martins' scent disbursed around the area to arouse the snakes. The snake uses its Jacobson's organ in the roof of its mouth to locate prey by smell and then guide him/her to the food source.
So make sure your housing poles have a good amount of netting and you can even place a wreath of it at the base. I have caught rat snakes at this point. You can buy the netting at places like WalMart, home improvement stores, or garden centers.
Good luck.
Steve
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KathyF
- Posts: 3522
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 1:57 pm
- Location: Missouri/Licking
- Martin Colony History: Colony started - 2007 with one pair
As of 2018 - 84 cavities offered, max # of pairs hosted - 82.
Hi Sam,
I'm so sorry to hear about your loss...I hope you have some positive news to come in the future. Take heart, you did everything you were supposed to.
Steve, is the netting at Walmart called "bird netting" or....?
I put on a metal cone on my pole also, but I am now reconsidering the PVC pipe and netting.
I'm so sorry to hear about your loss...I hope you have some positive news to come in the future. Take heart, you did everything you were supposed to.
Steve, is the netting at Walmart called "bird netting" or....?
I put on a metal cone on my pole also, but I am now reconsidering the PVC pipe and netting.
Sam im sorry to hear about your loss, a while back this was discussed. I took some precautions and i now spray WD40 on the galvanized stovepipe guard once a week or every 5 days when i do nest checks. I haven't been able to find bird netting so in the meantime if you have some WD40 spray plenty on the surface of the guard all around. I wonder how that PVC guard is mounted properly.
"We can judge the heart of man by his treatment of animals." - Immanual Kant.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JulioPrado954/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JulioPrado954/posts
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eyeamtheman
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:21 pm
- Location: Quitman, La
- Martin Colony History: Super colony
Kathy......yes.....bird netting.......garden center at WalMart......about 5 bucks or so, with enough in it to protect at least 5 or 6 poles.
And Julio.......the best way to install the pvc guards is BEFORE the pole is in the ground, making the unit whole, without a dangerous seam, as Steve mentioned......
And Julio.......the best way to install the pvc guards is BEFORE the pole is in the ground, making the unit whole, without a dangerous seam, as Steve mentioned......
Johnny
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Sam Fertitta
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 am
- Location: Leesville, Louisiana
Mike
I guess mine are too close to the ground mabe a foot or so. The winch assembly was to close to put them any higher.
John
Can the pvc be put on while housing is up? Got any photos?
Steve is correct. My guards have bolts with wing nuts. I guess that snake went up without any trouble. Kinda like giving him a boost.
Rob
that is an interesting design.
Astrid
I am indeed distraught but will not give up. I new I could count on ya'll to help me get through this.
geezer
I went today and bought more netting. I have it already on one of my poles, but probably not enough.
Dick
I ordered it with the LS Alamo this year. The only thing I may have away from the directions is not putting it 4 feet off the ground. As far as I am concerned, they should not considered "snake Guards" by any stretch.
Kathy
Thanks for the kind words
Steve
Once again you hit the nail on the head. Seamless may work, but with seams, bolts and wingnuts is like a step ladder.
My adults have abandoned the house in question. I noticed 2 nests with eggs left in it. Is there any use in moving the eggs to another nest. Perhaps in hopes that they would be incubated and hatched by other parents? Also is it too late for these ASY's to lay another clutch?
Thanks again to all......
SAM
I guess mine are too close to the ground mabe a foot or so. The winch assembly was to close to put them any higher.
John
Can the pvc be put on while housing is up? Got any photos?
Steve is correct. My guards have bolts with wing nuts. I guess that snake went up without any trouble. Kinda like giving him a boost.
Rob
that is an interesting design.
Astrid
I am indeed distraught but will not give up. I new I could count on ya'll to help me get through this.
geezer
I went today and bought more netting. I have it already on one of my poles, but probably not enough.
Dick
I ordered it with the LS Alamo this year. The only thing I may have away from the directions is not putting it 4 feet off the ground. As far as I am concerned, they should not considered "snake Guards" by any stretch.
Kathy
Thanks for the kind words
Steve
Once again you hit the nail on the head. Seamless may work, but with seams, bolts and wingnuts is like a step ladder.
My adults have abandoned the house in question. I noticed 2 nests with eggs left in it. Is there any use in moving the eggs to another nest. Perhaps in hopes that they would be incubated and hatched by other parents? Also is it too late for these ASY's to lay another clutch?
Thanks again to all......
SAM
Pmca is solely responsible for ending a ten year drought to start a colony. Many Many Thanks!!!
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Guest
Sam, I have a guard that can be added after the pole is up, I'm sure I got it fromt he PMCA. It does have a seam, and I use netting below the guard to catch snakes. I have caught 2 so far this year in the 3/4th inch netting. I wrap several layers around the pole, and so far it is very effective. I would put it above the guard if I had to, but I would not leave it off. I caught one snake going up my BB post.
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Sam Fertitta
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 am
- Location: Leesville, Louisiana
Julio
The last nest check I did was 2 weeks ago. I take full responsibility for this disaster. With the hawk problem I had earlier, my birds did not all nest at the same time. The house that had the snake Had eggs in 1 hole 2 weeks before any other. Further, they were due to fledge this week and I did not want to force a premature fledge.
In retrospest I probably should have done the checks.
Sam
The last nest check I did was 2 weeks ago. I take full responsibility for this disaster. With the hawk problem I had earlier, my birds did not all nest at the same time. The house that had the snake Had eggs in 1 hole 2 weeks before any other. Further, they were due to fledge this week and I did not want to force a premature fledge.
In retrospest I probably should have done the checks.
Sam
Pmca is solely responsible for ending a ten year drought to start a colony. Many Many Thanks!!!
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Scott D.- La
- Posts: 823
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
- Location: Louisiana
Sam,
Sorry for your loss. You have had a tough go of it but I know you will overcome these problems. There is a interesting article in the spring 2007 Purple Martin update with pics of this very problem. It is amazing how these snakes can get past the guards. I wish you the best for the remainder of the season.Scott.
Sorry for your loss. You have had a tough go of it but I know you will overcome these problems. There is a interesting article in the spring 2007 Purple Martin update with pics of this very problem. It is amazing how these snakes can get past the guards. I wish you the best for the remainder of the season.Scott.
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Guest
I would like to try using the bird netting. How do you attach it ? Just wrapping it around the pole? Tightly? How many layers? What about using snake away? This is a sulfa product that you can sprinkle around area and can be purchased at lowes. I use it around my chicken coop and it seems to help for awhile. Will the sulfa smell cause problems for PMs?
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Guest
I just bought the new quick release predator guard from the PMCA and it has been re-engineered to be smooth all over. No more seam. I think it will be a great deal better than the old ones with the exposed seam and screws.
The new issue of the martin magazine shows the snakes going up the guards. They are very resourceful.
But, just in case, I also put up the netting below it. So sorry for your loss. You did the best you could to protect your birds. A lesson for all of us.
The new issue of the martin magazine shows the snakes going up the guards. They are very resourceful.
But, just in case, I also put up the netting below it. So sorry for your loss. You did the best you could to protect your birds. A lesson for all of us.
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Sam Fertitta
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:43 am
- Location: Leesville, Louisiana
I want everybody to remember to get you netting on your poles. Do not let what happened to me in 2007 happen to you.
I hope this post comes back as I have never tried to update one.
Sam
I hope this post comes back as I have never tried to update one.
Sam
Pmca is solely responsible for ending a ten year drought to start a colony. Many Many Thanks!!!
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KathyF
- Posts: 3522
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 1:57 pm
- Location: Missouri/Licking
- Martin Colony History: Colony started - 2007 with one pair
As of 2018 - 84 cavities offered, max # of pairs hosted - 82.
It did, Sam. Thanks to this post from you last year, I installed pvc pipe and netting on my PM house and I didn't have any snake losses last year. I also put the 6" pvc and snake netting on my 3 new bluebird and 1 tree swallow houses that I just planted this year.
If any good came out of your losses, it was to help educate the rest of us and keep us from suffering the same.
Best wishes that you have many PM's this year and fledge lots of babies!!!
If any good came out of your losses, it was to help educate the rest of us and keep us from suffering the same.
Best wishes that you have many PM's this year and fledge lots of babies!!!
"Sometimes", said Pooh, "the smallest things take up the most room in your heart."
2023 - 82 pair
2022 - 80 pair
2021 - 75 pair
2020 - 78 pair
2019 - 80 pair
http://kathyfreeze.blogspot.com
2023 - 82 pair
2022 - 80 pair
2021 - 75 pair
2020 - 78 pair
2019 - 80 pair
http://kathyfreeze.blogspot.com
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The Olsons
- Posts: 3200
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:57 pm
- Location: North Padre Island, TX
Sam,
Thank you for t he update....yes, snakes can climb a predator guard and only netting or electric fences will prevent them from doing so. Please do not think that your area is safe from snakes. We had a big surprise last year with a rat snake after people telling us all the time we had no snakes in our area. Better safe than sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astrid
Thank you for t he update....yes, snakes can climb a predator guard and only netting or electric fences will prevent them from doing so. Please do not think that your area is safe from snakes. We had a big surprise last year with a rat snake after people telling us all the time we had no snakes in our area. Better safe than sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astrid
Love it or leave it~~~Astrid :-)