The subject title pretty much sums up the question I have. What puts the "SR" in SREH?
In particular, I'm looking for critical design features. From doing some research on the web it seems two of the most critical features are entrance height and elevation above floor level.
The dimension I have seen most for entrance height is 1 3/16"
The dimension I have seen most for elevation above floor level is anywhere from 0" (flush mounted) to 1/4" above the floor.
So I must ask: is there anything beyond these two dimensions I am missing? Some design feature that is critical to success?
Why must a crescent entrance be shaped like a crescent? Why not cut a rectangular slot that is 1 3/16" high and 3" wide and that is flush with the floor of the house?
I'd really like to hear from the pros of SREH as to what makes a good SREH!
What puts the "SR" in SREH?
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John Miller
- Posts: 4866
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
bump. (RC, Emil?)
I've done alot of research on designs over the last 4 years. IMO "SR" is in the Humps, pegs, poles, or what every you want to call them. Due to a patent any design with Humps, pegs, poles protruding upward falls under this patent. IMO only the crescent or obround don't meet this criteria.
The 1"3/16th height and 1/4" to flush rule is not absolute! I have some just shy of 1 1/2" and 1/2" off the floor (though the lower the better IMO)(but, I put some higher to see if that changed the ablility of the starling to enter, in some cases it did).
To do this you have to us the Humps, pegs, poles, camel backs to block the starlings. Starlings are wider in the hip and legs area by just a tad and I mean a small tad than PM's. The PM breasts and breast bone have a sharper V shaped to it, But there back and wings are flat and large.
To restrict starlings (other than Crecsent, or obround) and not PMs you have to use the pegs, poles, humps, camel backs, when doing so the PMs have to spread there wings to squeeze through that design entry hole. IMO this is why there is a little learn curve along with rotation of the breast bone slightly to get into the non-Humped SREH's 1 3/16".
I have found it's nearly impossible to prevent ALL starlings from pententrating SREH's. Some are slightly small and more determined that other's. I can block 9 out of 10 starlings and think I have the prefect design when MR. Houdini shows up and able to get through.
I'm pretty much stalemated at the moment! I have three variations that work larger than 1 3/16", one as much as 1/4" larger, but with humps, pegs, poles, camel backs extending upwards from the bottom and by the way the patent is written they fall under patent 6,513,454. I don't have the time, money, or desire to pursue getting a patent even though my holes look different and dimensions are different, but if it has pegs they fall under that patent or the original one.
I know the exact shape of a PM's body and what dimensions it takes to block 98% of starlings. Getting the dimensions right to be able to say it restrict's all starlings is probably a pipe dream, I have tested about probably 20 to 30 different variations of entry holes, so far I'm stuck. I also think it takes years to prove a design IMO.
IMO the best SREH on the Market today is the WDC. Easy for the PM's to learn and enter with No reported Deaths that I'm aware of so far. IMO this is a safer design over the rest that's out there to date. Kind of long, but maybe you get some more opinions from others and some that's actually tried to block a starling outside the 1 3/16th rule.
The 1"3/16th height and 1/4" to flush rule is not absolute! I have some just shy of 1 1/2" and 1/2" off the floor (though the lower the better IMO)(but, I put some higher to see if that changed the ablility of the starling to enter, in some cases it did).
To do this you have to us the Humps, pegs, poles, camel backs to block the starlings. Starlings are wider in the hip and legs area by just a tad and I mean a small tad than PM's. The PM breasts and breast bone have a sharper V shaped to it, But there back and wings are flat and large.
To restrict starlings (other than Crecsent, or obround) and not PMs you have to use the pegs, poles, humps, camel backs, when doing so the PMs have to spread there wings to squeeze through that design entry hole. IMO this is why there is a little learn curve along with rotation of the breast bone slightly to get into the non-Humped SREH's 1 3/16".
I have found it's nearly impossible to prevent ALL starlings from pententrating SREH's. Some are slightly small and more determined that other's. I can block 9 out of 10 starlings and think I have the prefect design when MR. Houdini shows up and able to get through.
I'm pretty much stalemated at the moment! I have three variations that work larger than 1 3/16", one as much as 1/4" larger, but with humps, pegs, poles, camel backs extending upwards from the bottom and by the way the patent is written they fall under patent 6,513,454. I don't have the time, money, or desire to pursue getting a patent even though my holes look different and dimensions are different, but if it has pegs they fall under that patent or the original one.
I know the exact shape of a PM's body and what dimensions it takes to block 98% of starlings. Getting the dimensions right to be able to say it restrict's all starlings is probably a pipe dream, I have tested about probably 20 to 30 different variations of entry holes, so far I'm stuck. I also think it takes years to prove a design IMO.
IMO the best SREH on the Market today is the WDC. Easy for the PM's to learn and enter with No reported Deaths that I'm aware of so far. IMO this is a safer design over the rest that's out there to date. Kind of long, but maybe you get some more opinions from others and some that's actually tried to block a starling outside the 1 3/16th rule.
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
The center 1-3/16in hole allows the martin body to enter, but not the wings, so on a WDC, the side holes allow the wings to enter. On an excluder, the bottom two pips are there to prevent the starling from entering sideways plus the small slope also prevents the starlings from turning sideways. On a crescent, the top slope prevents the starlings from turning sideways..
On my live starling tests the starlings like to get one wing and one leg inside, and then try to get the rest of the body in, and lastly, they try to get the other wing in..The starlings will even lay on their back and side trying to get their body inside. (In my tests, they were trying to get out!)
The martins on the other hand enter more straight forward, but wiggle a bit to get into the entrance.
Of course, there are many things the martins and the starlings try. I think that the part the martins must learn is to put their wings out a ways so they can pass the protrusions on the bottom, and so that the top of the wings will not bump the crescent. By spreading out their wings, the crescents do not affect them very much.
On my live starling tests the starlings like to get one wing and one leg inside, and then try to get the rest of the body in, and lastly, they try to get the other wing in..The starlings will even lay on their back and side trying to get their body inside. (In my tests, they were trying to get out!)
The martins on the other hand enter more straight forward, but wiggle a bit to get into the entrance.
Of course, there are many things the martins and the starlings try. I think that the part the martins must learn is to put their wings out a ways so they can pass the protrusions on the bottom, and so that the top of the wings will not bump the crescent. By spreading out their wings, the crescents do not affect them very much.
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Guest
What is the WDC entrance? I'll be building a Northstar house this winter and had about decided on a modified excluder entrance.
Ian
Ian
They are the same, the pink one in the picture, their is another Excluder variation that similar to the WDC excluder modified that has a more sloping top portions. I can't remember it's name. They all fall under the excluder patent as far as I know.
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Guest
AggieMEEN,
A story of the development of the crescent SREH can be found at www.purplemartin.org/LOY/LOY1992.html . Its mention of design by "trial and error" doesn't anwer your question. However, there is mention of a design for an entrance which is 1-1/4" high by 2-3/4" wide, flush with the floor, similar to what you proposed.
Tony
A story of the development of the crescent SREH can be found at www.purplemartin.org/LOY/LOY1992.html . Its mention of design by "trial and error" doesn't anwer your question. However, there is mention of a design for an entrance which is 1-1/4" high by 2-3/4" wide, flush with the floor, similar to what you proposed.
Tony
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Sandy - NC
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:40 pm
- Location: Rocky Mount, NC
RC is right. There is the Original Excluder, the WDC Modified Excluder, and the Excluder II. The original Excluder and Excluder II were designed by the patent holder, but the WDC Modified Excluder was designed by someone else. However, because the patent is so well written, it fell, as anything else with bottom pips that prevent or reduce starling entry, will fall under the patent # that RC gave above. If you want to get around the patent, then you must start thinking about some design that has no bottom pips.
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Mary Dawnsong
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:17 pm
- Location: Michigan, Livingston County
Hi Ian,
On the PMCA links page, choose the last link Entrances By Sandy
http://www.purplemartin.org/links/Purpl ... Sites.html
On Sandy's homepage, click on SREH Solutions.
You will see many photos of WDC, batwing Excluder, and Excluder II.
My site has been all crescent SREH since 2001, but I started installing Sandy's WDC tunnels on my gourds last season and am now about 50/50.
WDC is definitely easier for most martins at my site to enter and exit. This seems to be especially true for the new fledglings who have so much trouble getting inside their crescent gourds when they return from a day of flight/hunting training. I am hoping that going all WDC will reduce the number of fledglings roosting outside. With our cool Michigan nights, I just didn't see outside roosting when my colony was round holes. Then I switched to crescent and suddenly dozens are roosting on the gourd racks late in the season. WDC is my hope for getting the fledglings back inside where they are safer from owls.
My best, Mary
On the PMCA links page, choose the last link Entrances By Sandy
http://www.purplemartin.org/links/Purpl ... Sites.html
On Sandy's homepage, click on SREH Solutions.
You will see many photos of WDC, batwing Excluder, and Excluder II.
My site has been all crescent SREH since 2001, but I started installing Sandy's WDC tunnels on my gourds last season and am now about 50/50.
WDC is definitely easier for most martins at my site to enter and exit. This seems to be especially true for the new fledglings who have so much trouble getting inside their crescent gourds when they return from a day of flight/hunting training. I am hoping that going all WDC will reduce the number of fledglings roosting outside. With our cool Michigan nights, I just didn't see outside roosting when my colony was round holes. Then I switched to crescent and suddenly dozens are roosting on the gourd racks late in the season. WDC is my hope for getting the fledglings back inside where they are safer from owls.
My best, Mary
Click here to see my colony
"In Michigan every martin matters"
"In Michigan every martin matters"
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Guest
Thanks for the info and link. I sent Sandy an email asking a couple of questions about his entrances.
Ian
Ian