Hi Y'all
I have 4 BB houses around the place. One has 5 BB babies, one has 5 Titmouse babies and the other two are vacant. The last few days the BBs have taken an interest in my T14 which has 14 vacant cavities. Are BBs any threat to martins and can they coexist in the same house (if I get any martins in there!)? Thanks,Don
BB question
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Don,
If bluebirds start nesting in your T-14, then they may succeed in chasing away all martins that may show an interest in the house. Bluebirds are territorial and will control an entire house or gourd rack. If martins have never nested there, then any martins that investigate will not have any territorial drives established and defend the house. They are easily driven away by bluebirds which are already in control of the house. Bluebirds are not going to kill the martins but they probably would never nest together with them in a T-14. I have seen a pair of nesting bluebirds successfully keep martins away from gourd racks and multi-compartment houses at unestablished sites. The martins were timid and easily driven away by the aggressive bluebirds.
You want those bluebirds to nest in a vacant bluebird house away from the T-14. What folks often do is close up their martin house and then erect bluebird houses in an appropriate location. You may try that for a short while even though it is already mid-April and SY males are arriving in larger numbers in your area. Perhaps you could move one of your vacant bluebird houses to a more suitable site in the general area of the T-14. I try to keep my bluebird boxes at least 100 feet from my martin colony. It depends on how much open space you have.
Good luck.
Steve
If bluebirds start nesting in your T-14, then they may succeed in chasing away all martins that may show an interest in the house. Bluebirds are territorial and will control an entire house or gourd rack. If martins have never nested there, then any martins that investigate will not have any territorial drives established and defend the house. They are easily driven away by bluebirds which are already in control of the house. Bluebirds are not going to kill the martins but they probably would never nest together with them in a T-14. I have seen a pair of nesting bluebirds successfully keep martins away from gourd racks and multi-compartment houses at unestablished sites. The martins were timid and easily driven away by the aggressive bluebirds.
You want those bluebirds to nest in a vacant bluebird house away from the T-14. What folks often do is close up their martin house and then erect bluebird houses in an appropriate location. You may try that for a short while even though it is already mid-April and SY males are arriving in larger numbers in your area. Perhaps you could move one of your vacant bluebird houses to a more suitable site in the general area of the T-14. I try to keep my bluebird boxes at least 100 feet from my martin colony. It depends on how much open space you have.
Good luck.
Steve
I would never want to suggest that there is much I could teach Steve Koenke, the ultimate teacher. All the same, if you want to review the BB (& TS) interference problem and it's management in more detail; you are invited to see what I have posted at:
http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/E ... GENCY.html
Best regards,
Dan Drew
Indianapolis
http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/E ... GENCY.html
Best regards,
Dan Drew
Indianapolis
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Guest
Bluebirds and purple martins (and tree swallows, if you have them there) can all peacefully coexist, but it can take a little effort. Read Dan Drew's page on Trihabitation thoroughly. Then, if geometry isn't your strong suit (like me!) read it a couple more times.
Some people, like Dan, advocate having your housing close together, others, like Steve, recommend an increased distance. Both of these guys know their stuff, but their advice is radically different - so how can both of them be right? Because the ultimate answer is that everything depends on your individual situation. All I can add is to tell you what works for me.
I have my BB box and TS gourd as two legs of a rough triangle, each about 15 ft away from the third point, the PM gourd rack. Another BB box, set off to the side of this set-up, serves as a sparrow trap box, although last year, the TS decided to nest there, instead. The BB live here year-round, so they take up occupancy of their traditional nest box first. The TS return next, and choose their site (gourd or box 2). With any luck, when the PM return, the other two are busy with their families, leaving the PM gourds open and available.
The first year I did this, I had all 3 species coexisting, and I ultimately had 5 BB, 6 TS and 6 PM fledges for 2004. I did the same thing last year, but opened the PM housing too soon and added some round hole gourds. Between bad weather, TS and starlings, I lost my martins last year. This year, I am ABSOLUTELY waiting until the TS lay their first egg before I even hang my PM gourds. I need those pesky TS to commit to their nest or else they will change they fuzzy little minds again and again. This year, I feel lucky.
A couple of questions for you: When you say the BB are interested in your T-14, do you mean they perch on top to survey the area and hunt from it? Or, are they actively going in and out of cavities, as if house-hunting? Is this the same pair with a nest of 5 babies, or is this a different pair? And, how far apart are your BB (and titmouse) boxes from the T-14?
If you are talking about the same nesting pair merely perching on your T-14, then I doubt they are any trouble. If they are busy feeding 5 young, they don't have the time or energy to try to take over occupancy of your T-14, in my opinion. However, if your active BB nest is far away from your T-14 and a new BB couple is investigating, then yes, I would say you have some concerns. As Steve mentioned, a bluebird pair who wants a cavity can and will drive away the young, inexperienced SY males you are hoping to attract to start your PM colony. They are no match for TS, HOSP, or even BB.
In that case (a second BB couple and the first nest far away), I would suggest moving one of the empty boxes closer to your T-14 and plugging up the holes in an effort to get the second BB couple to move into the nest box.
NEVER let ANY other bird nest in your martin housing. Evict the S&S and coax the other birds into more appropriate housing.
Some people, like Dan, advocate having your housing close together, others, like Steve, recommend an increased distance. Both of these guys know their stuff, but their advice is radically different - so how can both of them be right? Because the ultimate answer is that everything depends on your individual situation. All I can add is to tell you what works for me.
I have my BB box and TS gourd as two legs of a rough triangle, each about 15 ft away from the third point, the PM gourd rack. Another BB box, set off to the side of this set-up, serves as a sparrow trap box, although last year, the TS decided to nest there, instead. The BB live here year-round, so they take up occupancy of their traditional nest box first. The TS return next, and choose their site (gourd or box 2). With any luck, when the PM return, the other two are busy with their families, leaving the PM gourds open and available.
The first year I did this, I had all 3 species coexisting, and I ultimately had 5 BB, 6 TS and 6 PM fledges for 2004. I did the same thing last year, but opened the PM housing too soon and added some round hole gourds. Between bad weather, TS and starlings, I lost my martins last year. This year, I am ABSOLUTELY waiting until the TS lay their first egg before I even hang my PM gourds. I need those pesky TS to commit to their nest or else they will change they fuzzy little minds again and again. This year, I feel lucky.
A couple of questions for you: When you say the BB are interested in your T-14, do you mean they perch on top to survey the area and hunt from it? Or, are they actively going in and out of cavities, as if house-hunting? Is this the same pair with a nest of 5 babies, or is this a different pair? And, how far apart are your BB (and titmouse) boxes from the T-14?
If you are talking about the same nesting pair merely perching on your T-14, then I doubt they are any trouble. If they are busy feeding 5 young, they don't have the time or energy to try to take over occupancy of your T-14, in my opinion. However, if your active BB nest is far away from your T-14 and a new BB couple is investigating, then yes, I would say you have some concerns. As Steve mentioned, a bluebird pair who wants a cavity can and will drive away the young, inexperienced SY males you are hoping to attract to start your PM colony. They are no match for TS, HOSP, or even BB.
In that case (a second BB couple and the first nest far away), I would suggest moving one of the empty boxes closer to your T-14 and plugging up the holes in an effort to get the second BB couple to move into the nest box.
NEVER let ANY other bird nest in your martin housing. Evict the S&S and coax the other birds into more appropriate housing.
I'm not so sure! Don has not said whether he has an established site... and Steve has "hedged" with the term "appropriate location." I'll be interested to see whether the thread continues; though the whole issue is moot if Don has site loyal returning martins. DanBoth of these guys know their stuff, but their advice is radically different
dbroussard~LA
My thoughts on this subject, I had up a 23 box Bluebird Trail where I moved from. I kept the Purple Martin house and gourds for Purple Martins. I only let Bluebirds nest in my Bluebird boxes. I put up smaller boxes for the Chickadees, Titmouses, Wrens, etc.
My thoughts on this subject, I had up a 23 box Bluebird Trail where I moved from. I kept the Purple Martin house and gourds for Purple Martins. I only let Bluebirds nest in my Bluebird boxes. I put up smaller boxes for the Chickadees, Titmouses, Wrens, etc.
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Guest
Hey Y'all,
Thanks for the excellent response. I have not observed the BBs on the T14 in for a couple days now and I think everything is OK. To answer some or your questions: The BBs were perching on the house and I am not sure if they were the ones with the babies. I did not see them going in and out of the house, but they stayed up there allot. I was concerned about them starting to nest and interfering with the martins.I also wanted to preserve the BBs. I am just now getting some martin activity.The T14 was not active with martins. We built it last summer,but did not really expect residence since we were kind of late. Had a few visitors but no nesting. I have 2 acres and the BB houses are located where there are open flyways. I have 2 on the East side of my home(one of which has the 5 babies) ,one in front, and one on the West. If you were to plot them ,they would form an irregular rectangle.The T14 is on the North side. The closest one (West house) to the T-14 is about 120' away. That is the one with the Titmouses.I am impressed
with Y'all's expertise and appreciate the information.Don
Thanks for the excellent response. I have not observed the BBs on the T14 in for a couple days now and I think everything is OK. To answer some or your questions: The BBs were perching on the house and I am not sure if they were the ones with the babies. I did not see them going in and out of the house, but they stayed up there allot. I was concerned about them starting to nest and interfering with the martins.I also wanted to preserve the BBs. I am just now getting some martin activity.The T14 was not active with martins. We built it last summer,but did not really expect residence since we were kind of late. Had a few visitors but no nesting. I have 2 acres and the BB houses are located where there are open flyways. I have 2 on the East side of my home(one of which has the 5 babies) ,one in front, and one on the West. If you were to plot them ,they would form an irregular rectangle.The T14 is on the North side. The closest one (West house) to the T-14 is about 120' away. That is the one with the Titmouses.I am impressed
with Y'all's expertise and appreciate the information.Don