Hi Everyone,
I have two questions. First one is, if I have two PAIR of Martins, will they be very active trying to attract other Martins or will they be complacent because they already have their mate? The other question is, why don't I ever hear my Martins at 4:30 doing their dawnsong? My birds usually don't start singing until 7 or 8:00 am. This was the same last year. Are my birds just late sleepers??
Question On Martin Behavior
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Guest
Nanette, You may have hit the nail on the head. If they have paired up they might not be as likely to be singing early. Here in SW Oklahoma I never used the dawn songs to attract PM's. I do use the CD and cassettes during the winter months to lift my spirits. If there has been a hawk or owl that has threatened them this might also explain their silence in the mornings. I'm sure the singing will begin when more males arrive the temperature rises and then the courting begins.
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Nanette,
Two comments about your birds - even though they already have mates, they will recruit more martins, whether intentionally or by accident - during their daily activities. Martins are attracted to sites already occupied by martins. Dawnsong is also used to recruit more birds - but not this early in the season.
For this year, it is way too early for your birds (the males) to perform dawnsong. Dawnsong will start when your birds have built nests and the females are ready to lay eggs, or after they begin laying eggs. At that point the males will begin dawnsinging to recruit subadult birds to the site, and the adult males will mate with the new females. These females will be paired with the subadult males, which will raise the young that result from the extra-pair copulations between adult males and subbie females.
I would bet you anything that your males do perform dawnsong each year, all martins (adult males) do. You may not hear it because it takes place away from the housing, or because it's too early for you to be out listening (I'm sure not up at 4:30 or 5 AM
) or you may not recognize it as being performed by martins when you do hear it. It's done when it's pitch black outside, so you can't see the martins, plus they are up flying around, a fair distance from the housing most of the time. Some males will sing it a bit from their porches just before sunrise, and dawnsinging ceases before sunrise - when it would be drowned out anyway by the dawn chorus of all the other birds.
Louise
Two comments about your birds - even though they already have mates, they will recruit more martins, whether intentionally or by accident - during their daily activities. Martins are attracted to sites already occupied by martins. Dawnsong is also used to recruit more birds - but not this early in the season.
For this year, it is way too early for your birds (the males) to perform dawnsong. Dawnsong will start when your birds have built nests and the females are ready to lay eggs, or after they begin laying eggs. At that point the males will begin dawnsinging to recruit subadult birds to the site, and the adult males will mate with the new females. These females will be paired with the subadult males, which will raise the young that result from the extra-pair copulations between adult males and subbie females.
I would bet you anything that your males do perform dawnsong each year, all martins (adult males) do. You may not hear it because it takes place away from the housing, or because it's too early for you to be out listening (I'm sure not up at 4:30 or 5 AM
) or you may not recognize it as being performed by martins when you do hear it. It's done when it's pitch black outside, so you can't see the martins, plus they are up flying around, a fair distance from the housing most of the time. Some males will sing it a bit from their porches just before sunrise, and dawnsinging ceases before sunrise - when it would be drowned out anyway by the dawn chorus of all the other birds. Louise
Hi Louise,
That would explain why I don't hear the Dawnsong. I often wake up at 5:00 - 5:30 and try to listen for the dawnsong but I have never heard anything. I had assumed that the birds are at the house when they sing and that the singing occurred just after the first males arrived. I'll keep and ear out once the pairs start nesting.
You said that the eggs from the sub-adult females will be from the adult males. Is it possible to have eggs in the same clutch from both the adult and sub-adult male?
That would explain why I don't hear the Dawnsong. I often wake up at 5:00 - 5:30 and try to listen for the dawnsong but I have never heard anything. I had assumed that the birds are at the house when they sing and that the singing occurred just after the first males arrived. I'll keep and ear out once the pairs start nesting.
You said that the eggs from the sub-adult females will be from the adult males. Is it possible to have eggs in the same clutch from both the adult and sub-adult male?
Fledge on!
Nanette
Nanette
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6208
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
One of the very first Update issues had a good article by Dr Eugene Morton about why martins dawnsing. He later published results of DNA fingerprinting for martins at his colony site, showing that subadult males raised young fathered by adult males. I think the subbie males fathered 20 or 30% of the young they raised, with the remainder fathered by adult males - the dawnsingers 
. Heh heh, there's a lot going on in a martin colony.
Some researchers believe the main reason martins nest in groups is because of the opportunity it affords the older males to leave more offspring than if they nested in single pairs. Adult martin pairs may claim extra cavities, too, and defend them until the subadults arrive, at which time they allow the new birds to move in.... the next thing you know, young Mrs Martin is off to borrow a cup of sugar from the older male next door.
I'll see if we have either of those articles in electronic form - if we do, I'll share them here. Morton's DNA work also found that most songbirds are promiscuous, with extra pair copulations by both the male and female outside of their one-season pair bond.
Louise
. Heh heh, there's a lot going on in a martin colony. Some researchers believe the main reason martins nest in groups is because of the opportunity it affords the older males to leave more offspring than if they nested in single pairs. Adult martin pairs may claim extra cavities, too, and defend them until the subadults arrive, at which time they allow the new birds to move in.... the next thing you know, young Mrs Martin is off to borrow a cup of sugar from the older male next door.
I'll see if we have either of those articles in electronic form - if we do, I'll share them here. Morton's DNA work also found that most songbirds are promiscuous, with extra pair copulations by both the male and female outside of their one-season pair bond.
Louise