Cedar Shavings

[Guest]

We just added a S&K house to our yard. To make it more inviting we put cedar shavings in the compartments. They keep sticking their heads in to look but will not go in.........also this house has the crescent openings versus the round openings in the Coates house we put up last year and hosted two pairs.

Anyone have any comments on cedar shavings versus pine needles.

Also articles regarding use of pine needles say use "soft" needles ??!!??!!

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Lynnoleum

[CUL Lou~Mich]

Many folks are now thinking there could be fumes from the ceday shavings that might not be too good. Some say their PMs toss out the cedar shaving, so they've stopped using them. Most folks use what's available naturally, such as Pine Needles from White Pine, Wheat Straw, Corn fodder, etc. Some will make sort of a nest out of grasses, and small twigs. As for "Soft" Once the pine needles dry, they aren't real soft. However, needles from White Pine are softer when fresh than needles from say a Spruce, which is pokey even when green. That's the only correlation. As for the crescents. IF they are cut to the correct size, the PMs will go in when they decide to do so. One should check carefully to make sure they are at least 1 3/16th inch, or just a tad larger. (Up to 1 1/4th inch.) CUL Lou

[Guest]

If I'm not mistaken, cedar shavings tend to take a really long time to dry out if they get wet, which isn't good for the eggs. If you have a hard rain, you might have problems. Try soaking some to see.

Shelley

[geneinmurphy]

I highly recommend the pine needles...they drain rain easier. I used cedar shavings in some gourds last year, and pine needles in others. The cedar shavings are fine until they get wet, they they are hard to dry out. Stick with the pine needles.....and the PM's like them....

[iluvbirds]

I added Cedar shavings to my houses year before last, and they threw them all out. I added Pine needles to the houses/gourds last year, and they love them.

[Guest]

I used half and half pine needles and cedar shavings last year and the year before. The PMs threw an awful lot of the cedar overboard. This year I am about 95% pine needles (just using up the cedar that I had left over from last year). FWIW, I cut the needels into 2" or so lengths before putting them in the nest boxes.

What the PMs really like (in my back yard, at least) is new leaves from the nearby ornamental pear trees. Those leaves typically appear just about the time serious nest building begins, and we'll see dozens of PMs up at the tops of the trees ripping off pieces of the new, tender leaves. They'll also get down on the ground to forage for new leaves.

HTH

[Dennis Martin]

If you have crescent holes you need inside and outside porches or they have trouble getting in. I also put friction tape on the surface to help with traction. Also, I suggest pines tags as nest material. They will rearrange and remove it to suit their needs, but I'm sure in the early cold days when they return, they really appreciate a warm bed of pine tags.

[Guss P O'Brien]

In my experience, the cedar shavings stay very damp or wet. Maybe it is the gulf coast climate. Even without rain, they are wet until the birds move out. I don't know where the moisture comes from. Maybe plastic makes it worse. However, it does not seem to effect chicks that are at nest replacement age or older. I would not recommend wood shavings starting out.

The pine needles disappear from the nests I add them to. I assume the birds carry them out. Another mystery.

I have the best luck with completely sun-dried grass clippings for nest replacements. They are very cheap, abundant, and mat down well into a decent replacement nest. Do not use grass clippings that are not completely dry. My mower spreads them out in a then layer that dries in several hours or sometimes overnight and collected the next even before dew. Avoid clumps. Don't used "mulched" clippings. Longer pieces is better. If you put dry clipping in the nest, they can generate a lot of heat- enough to be dangerous. Collect a bag full of fresh wet clippings and see for yourself if you don't believe me. The wet clipping will create fungus and who knows what else. I have never seen a problem with the completely sun dried grass clippings. You may try that.

I think the best thing to use starting out is what you think the birds will end up using for nests. At the start of the season, I add some grass stolens to empty compartments because that is exclusively what they using in my neighborhood. Try to find out what they use in your neighborhood. I'll start a string on this subject soon.

Rubbing mud around the outside of the entrance seemed to help encourage birds to enter the houses I put up.

[Guest]

Guss: You said, "If you put dry clipping in the nest, they can generate a lot of heat- enough to be dangerous." - did you mean if you put wet clippings?

[Ed Svetich-WI]

I used to raise canaries and used cedar shavings exclusively in all of my breeding cages and flight cages with no detrimental effects of any kind. Young birds are especially sensitive to their environment and I did not experience any mortality. I used cedar shavings in my martin housing originally but, as has been mentioned, it takes a long time to dry out once it gets wet. As far as your question about soft needles, I use only needles from white pines here in Wisconsin. The needles are 4-5 inches in length in contrast to other pine needles that are short and stiffer. That is how I understand the preference for soft needles but others may have other explanations. I agree that the pine needles dry more quickly and also do not break down as quickly in the nests.

[Guest]

Thank you very much to all of you who took time to reply and offer suggestions.

I too had thought about if the odor from the cedar would be a factor.

Never thought about the moisture retention issue....great point.

Here in Houston, Texas the pine needles are very stiff.

I think I need to make a run to the local feed store and get a handful of baled hay. Or I'm very willing to accept soft pine needles from anyone willing to mail some my way....will pay postage.

Thanks again,
Lynnoleum

[Dave]

The crescents are the correct size. they are molded not cut.. Pine needles work great.

[TreeGreenwood]

... I need to make a run to the local feed store and get a handful of baled hay.

NOT hay. Straw. Cheaper and better for the birds.