when to treat nests for mites
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Guest
I have been reading the forum for years and have a question, does it help to treat your nest before you put them up for mites? will the Martins go to a nest that has been dusted or do you wait until later, what do most of you use . We have only been doing this for 2 years and had Martins the first year, & more last year , but did notice mites last year. Have not seen any this year yet
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apundt-TX
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:34 pm
- Location: Pflugerville, Texas
- Martin Colony History: :
2022-1 pair
1 pair 2021
2020- Didn't get setup fast enough in Pflugerville
2019- Apartment
2018 Divorce lost Colony in Dripping Springs
19 pair 2017
17 pair 2015
12 pair 2014
8 pair 2013
5 pair 2012
2 pair 2011
I am interested when you got martins your first year. What date was it one and was it SY, ASY, or mixed?
Thanks,
A.P.
Thanks,
A.P.
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
The question you asked often leads to heated debates, but I will try to answer without starting a debate....some people strongly resent chemical control and use nest changouts to control mites...since you mentioned dusting, I think you are talking about the chemical Sevin dust....Sevin dusts kill the mites when you put it into the cavity, and if it gets wet, it lasts only 7 days maximum. It does not take much sevin, only about 1/4 teaspoon full under the nesting material..
You can add it when you see mites, or you can put some under the nests about the time the babies hatch..different people do it differently...if you use it once or twice during the season, that is usually sifficient to control the miites. Please do not use much, it is not necessary...
If you don't want to use Sevin, then nest changes are recommended every few days, or when you see mites.
You can add it when you see mites, or you can put some under the nests about the time the babies hatch..different people do it differently...if you use it once or twice during the season, that is usually sifficient to control the miites. Please do not use much, it is not necessary...
If you don't want to use Sevin, then nest changes are recommended every few days, or when you see mites.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Guest
Thanks Emil, did not intend to start a debate, just remembered reading some posts before on this subject, not what was said. We love watching and talking to the Martins and watching the young learn to fly, and would never do anything to harm them. I keep the starlings and sparrows away with my 410 . The only problem is the house was not designed to raise/lower so we don't do nest checks . The Martins love to sit on the porches and perch on top tho. just found some mites when we took it down for cleaning after they moved on.
Apundt-TX, We are new at this yet so don't know if they were
SY or ASY, I woul say mixed. We built a Martin House the first year from a pattern I found on the internet , did not know about this forum at the time, after We put it up I found this forum and found how hard it is to get them started especially when we do have lots of big trees here too.
Boy, we were so pleased that we had takers the first year, did not keep records, but think it was late Feb/first of March when one or two showed up that year, we had 4 pair with babies eventully for the season, last year again we had a few show and stay around the last of Feb , soon the house was full and we had put up the gourd rack and it was about half full of pairs w/babies .
No sign yet this year, did build another house/ on a pulley this time for them, hope they love this one as much as they do the first one. We will never be as good as you guys on this forum but hope we help the Martins some.
Marge (reads the forum)
Jim (does the work)
Apundt-TX, We are new at this yet so don't know if they were
SY or ASY, I woul say mixed. We built a Martin House the first year from a pattern I found on the internet , did not know about this forum at the time, after We put it up I found this forum and found how hard it is to get them started especially when we do have lots of big trees here too.
Boy, we were so pleased that we had takers the first year, did not keep records, but think it was late Feb/first of March when one or two showed up that year, we had 4 pair with babies eventully for the season, last year again we had a few show and stay around the last of Feb , soon the house was full and we had put up the gourd rack and it was about half full of pairs w/babies .
No sign yet this year, did build another house/ on a pulley this time for them, hope they love this one as much as they do the first one. We will never be as good as you guys on this forum but hope we help the Martins some.
Marge (reads the forum)
Jim (does the work)
Last year I had both mites and avian lice for the first time. I did nest changes to control them. I wondered if the cause might have been from the pine needles that I put in when I opened my houses. I used diatomaceous earth in my bluebird boxes years ago and wonder if this might work, I hate to use sevin or any toxic product. When the Martins left last fall I removed the nest trays and really cleaned them good with a clorox solution 1:10 and sprayed the cavities...a couple of weeks later the mites could still be seen in there, so I sprayed again. We have had such a mild winter that I wonder if they might survive...then Idon't know what to do. I do plan to spray again before the Martins arrive.
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roblrich
Emil, you're right, so don't worry about the debate.
Duck, your reinfestation is because of mites on the birds. You can clean out the boxes daily, but if they are still on the birds, they will always return. (1) [Mites feed on the unfeathered nestlings, as well as the adult birds, and the large amount of nesting material used by the birds provide the mites with an ideal environment in which to thrive. Mites have a short life cycle (approximately 7 days) and can rapidly generate large populations.] Thats why (IMO) it is nescessary to use Sevin.
But mites cannot survive the winter without a host. (2) When the young birds leave the nest, or die, many mites (often many tens of thousands) are left behind in the absence of a suitable host, and these will disperse from the nest into and throughout the dwelling searching for new hosts. Most mites will die within 3 weeks without a blood meal from a bird host.
In regards to DE, studies by the PMCA supposedly has found that diatomaceous earth does more harm than good to PM's. This may not be the case for BB's.
The above is my opinion. Everyone should do what THEY think is best for their own colonies.
(1, 2) Quotes from the "Department of Medical Entomology"
Duck, your reinfestation is because of mites on the birds. You can clean out the boxes daily, but if they are still on the birds, they will always return. (1) [Mites feed on the unfeathered nestlings, as well as the adult birds, and the large amount of nesting material used by the birds provide the mites with an ideal environment in which to thrive. Mites have a short life cycle (approximately 7 days) and can rapidly generate large populations.] Thats why (IMO) it is nescessary to use Sevin.
But mites cannot survive the winter without a host. (2) When the young birds leave the nest, or die, many mites (often many tens of thousands) are left behind in the absence of a suitable host, and these will disperse from the nest into and throughout the dwelling searching for new hosts. Most mites will die within 3 weeks without a blood meal from a bird host.
In regards to DE, studies by the PMCA supposedly has found that diatomaceous earth does more harm than good to PM's. This may not be the case for BB's.
The above is my opinion. Everyone should do what THEY think is best for their own colonies.
(1, 2) Quotes from the "Department of Medical Entomology"
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
rickluc, some people feel that if they put some sevin in the nest early in the season that this will prevent mites for the entire season...its a preventive measure for people that regularly see mites if they don't use sevin...this is done mostly by people that cannot raise or lower the housing...
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6208
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
I think Emil sums things up pretty well - whatever method you decide to use, use it with care.
Duck, it's normal for wild birds to have lice, and it's nothing to worry about. Lice spend their entire life cycle on the birds, so if you saw something in the nests, it was not lice. What you'll normally see in a martin nest are mites, fleas, and in some areas, blowfly larvae.
ADDED INFO: I forgot to say that both nest mites and fleas will overwinter in old nests and in crevices in houses & gourds, even up north. PMCA did some studies on this, saving 100s of nests bagged in ziplocks and stored in an unheated building all winter. On a warm day in early spring, fleas would be jumping around in the bags like popcorn, and if you held it to your ear, you could hear them. Some of our earliest houses were homemade wooden units. Again, they were stored in unheated building and once weather warmed up, swarms of mites would crawl out of crevices, waiting for martins to return so they could feed again. So any type of martin housing needs thorough cleaning in fall. Don't bring houses into a warm place like your basement or attached garage to store them without cleaning them first. A good hosing with soapy water helps remove hidden bugs. Ron Seekamp in Fridley MN, designs & builds his martins houses and takes them completely apart in the fall so he can remove all mites, etc.
Nest changes are typically done at 7-10 day intervals, to interrupt the cycle of blowfly egg-laying and hatch. Some landlords do it as a preventive measure, others check under nest material for pupal cases and do a nest change when they notice many cases, and/or when they see much nest mite activity. Since mites hide in crevices and blowfly larvae will burrow down under the nest, it's important to remove nest trays and look under nest material.
If a bloom of mites occurs, mites will swarm all over the outside of housing as well as inside. Taking a paper towel and moistening it with rubbing alcohol, then wiping down any areas where you see mites will help remove them. A TX landlord friend, Gisela Fregoe, told me she likes to put some vaseline on the threads of her gourd access caps. It makes the caps easier to put on & off, and the mites that go to hide there get stuck in the vaseline, making it easier to wipe them off too.
Louise
Duck, it's normal for wild birds to have lice, and it's nothing to worry about. Lice spend their entire life cycle on the birds, so if you saw something in the nests, it was not lice. What you'll normally see in a martin nest are mites, fleas, and in some areas, blowfly larvae.
ADDED INFO: I forgot to say that both nest mites and fleas will overwinter in old nests and in crevices in houses & gourds, even up north. PMCA did some studies on this, saving 100s of nests bagged in ziplocks and stored in an unheated building all winter. On a warm day in early spring, fleas would be jumping around in the bags like popcorn, and if you held it to your ear, you could hear them. Some of our earliest houses were homemade wooden units. Again, they were stored in unheated building and once weather warmed up, swarms of mites would crawl out of crevices, waiting for martins to return so they could feed again. So any type of martin housing needs thorough cleaning in fall. Don't bring houses into a warm place like your basement or attached garage to store them without cleaning them first. A good hosing with soapy water helps remove hidden bugs. Ron Seekamp in Fridley MN, designs & builds his martins houses and takes them completely apart in the fall so he can remove all mites, etc.
Nest changes are typically done at 7-10 day intervals, to interrupt the cycle of blowfly egg-laying and hatch. Some landlords do it as a preventive measure, others check under nest material for pupal cases and do a nest change when they notice many cases, and/or when they see much nest mite activity. Since mites hide in crevices and blowfly larvae will burrow down under the nest, it's important to remove nest trays and look under nest material.
If a bloom of mites occurs, mites will swarm all over the outside of housing as well as inside. Taking a paper towel and moistening it with rubbing alcohol, then wiping down any areas where you see mites will help remove them. A TX landlord friend, Gisela Fregoe, told me she likes to put some vaseline on the threads of her gourd access caps. It makes the caps easier to put on & off, and the mites that go to hide there get stuck in the vaseline, making it easier to wipe them off too.
Louise
Last edited by Louise Chambers on Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Craftmanz Hello, Emil gives good advice. As to the timeing of when. I do it once per season, at the beginning of nest building. M.H.
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klcretired
- Posts: 2174
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:06 am
- Location: Grand Prairie,Tx
Craftmanz,
I put i teaspoon of seven dust under the front of ea nest at the begining of ea Martin season....never had any mites....never had any alergic reactions or problems w/ my Martins or their babies, i have been doing this for year's.
I put i teaspoon of seven dust under the front of ea nest at the begining of ea Martin season....never had any mites....never had any alergic reactions or problems w/ my Martins or their babies, i have been doing this for year's.
Pictures Taken with Canon Rebel XT Digital using a Sigma 50-500 Long Lens.
Wishing everyone a Great Martin Year
Happy Martining for 2022 to everyone,
K.C.
[email protected]
Wishing everyone a Great Martin Year
Happy Martining for 2022 to everyone,
K.C.
[email protected]
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Guest
Emil,..... I respect you very highly.. I have no desire to get into a heated argument.. I know it is more apt to happen if we are quiet strongly opinionated.
I agree with Louise that lice are rarely the problem.. Lice live their life on the birds.. It is the mites, blowfly larve, fleas,, knats. that do the damage,.. and can quickly make a come back if you have an ineffective product to treat with..
A quote from Emil.. " Some people that feel that if you put Sevin in the nest early in the season., that this will prevent mites all season.. "
Many experts find this true.. If this is true then why would any one want a more time consuming method?? I have 7 gourd racks that can be raised and lowerd.., Every 5 to 7 days... That would seem foolish to me
I agree with Louise that lice are rarely the problem.. Lice live their life on the birds.. It is the mites, blowfly larve, fleas,, knats. that do the damage,.. and can quickly make a come back if you have an ineffective product to treat with..
A quote from Emil.. " Some people that feel that if you put Sevin in the nest early in the season., that this will prevent mites all season.. "
Many experts find this true.. If this is true then why would any one want a more time consuming method?? I have 7 gourd racks that can be raised and lowerd.., Every 5 to 7 days... That would seem foolish to me
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Guest
I was cut off before I was finished with my post...
quote... Why would you put Sevin iin the nest when you have no problems.??? answer... because an ounse of prevention is better then a pound cure....What more can we say??? Name me 10 sussesful Landlords that do not use Sevin,, even when they have mite problems.. I do not know of a single one..... and I know a lot of them. Victor
quote... Why would you put Sevin iin the nest when you have no problems.??? answer... because an ounse of prevention is better then a pound cure....What more can we say??? Name me 10 sussesful Landlords that do not use Sevin,, even when they have mite problems.. I do not know of a single one..... and I know a lot of them. Victor
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roblrich
Victor, unless I am reading either your post wrong or Emil's, I think you both agree on this issue. You both are pro-Sevin.
I was once all but run off this forum a few years ago because I was pro-Sevin. I didn't return til last month.
I was once all but run off this forum a few years ago because I was pro-Sevin. I didn't return til last month.
Emil and victorstoll
My comments were directed to craftmanz!
But while I'm on here, if this Sevin is so good why not wait and see if you have a problem. From what I've read it will probably only last 10 days anyway.
And what is an expert?
My comments were directed to craftmanz!
But while I'm on here, if this Sevin is so good why not wait and see if you have a problem. From what I've read it will probably only last 10 days anyway.
And what is an expert?
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roblrich
Possibly someone that has the largest PM Colony in North America?rickluc wrote: And what is an expert?
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
rickluc, your comments:
"Emil and victorstoll
My comments were directed to craftmanz! "
you do not control whom is allowed to reply to your posts. I answer whomever, whenever, or whatever I please...why are you so upset? We normally try to help each other on this forum, I hate to see anyone try to lecture someone that replied...Lets try to get along, please! To have a different opinion than yours (or mine) is everyones right to do so...to reply to a post is everyones right...
It is not my intent to start a sevin debate, and I will not do so...
"Emil and victorstoll
My comments were directed to craftmanz! "
you do not control whom is allowed to reply to your posts. I answer whomever, whenever, or whatever I please...why are you so upset? We normally try to help each other on this forum, I hate to see anyone try to lecture someone that replied...Lets try to get along, please! To have a different opinion than yours (or mine) is everyones right to do so...to reply to a post is everyones right...
It is not my intent to start a sevin debate, and I will not do so...
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Guest
Craftmanz and Rick
I spray with Licquid Sevin ( 21 percent ) and spray in each compartment
This is good for at least one year and it looks like we may get 2 years from one spraying.. We spray in the spring each.year.. I never use 5 percent..dust..
We are mite free for many years.. A Super colony consists of 90 pairs or more.. A sucessful martin colony consists of 10 or more pair ,,fledgelings
at the rate of 4.5 per nest. this we consider a successful colony... Victor
I spray with Licquid Sevin ( 21 percent ) and spray in each compartment
This is good for at least one year and it looks like we may get 2 years from one spraying.. We spray in the spring each.year.. I never use 5 percent..dust..
We are mite free for many years.. A Super colony consists of 90 pairs or more.. A sucessful martin colony consists of 10 or more pair ,,fledgelings
at the rate of 4.5 per nest. this we consider a successful colony... Victor
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roblrich
Victor, what mixture do you use when preparing liquid Sevin spray? 1 tablespoon per gallon of water?
Liquid Sevin is fantastic for Japanese Beetles which get on my dwarf fruit trees, and I use a tablespoon per gallon for those.
Liquid Sevin is fantastic for Japanese Beetles which get on my dwarf fruit trees, and I use a tablespoon per gallon for those.
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Guest
Craftmanz I mix 4 tablespoons of 21 percent liicquid Sevin in one gallon of water... be sure you spray the dry parts of the gourd or the compart ment... Your going to be delighted at the results... Victor