I am building a Starling and Sparrow trap.
I need the weight, in ounces or grams, of the European Starling and/or the English Sparrow, and have not been able to find it on the internet. If no one knows, within a few grams, perhaps one of you that are trapping them could use an accurate postal scale to obtain this weight before you dispose of it.
I am aware of the "four quarters" and "seven quarters" test. I just want to know their general weight.
Also, what is the diameter of the escape hole for small domestic birds?
Thanks,
Joe
Starling and Sparrow Trap - Help needed
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CUL Lou~Mich
Joe. I'm not sure of the weights. I've always set my trap by the quarters thingy. As for the escape hole. I believe it's 1 1/2 inch. If you're building either the S&S Controller, or the NB Compact trap, you might want to consider putting an escape in the back end (Under the counter weight) of the box itself. I've had BBs go in, trip the trap, then instead of going into the downspout, just step off, and the trap resets. Then the bird is trapped inside. It happened to me four times one day (Thankfully a Saturday, so I was home) with a female BB, and I had to lower it, take the roof off, and let her out. The fourth time, I got tired of the game, and cut a hole in the end. She then used that to escape. Never did figure out what her deal was in doing this, but a couple days later, she quit. CUL Lou
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Joe Zorn
CUL Lou
It almost sounds like this little bluebird had experience with a trap before and was playing a game. It was wise enough not to go down the chute, for sure, even though the access hole to it would have been open to it after the trap reset.
Tiy are suggesting the 1-1/2" escape hole in the counterweight compartment? What would keep small domestic birds from trying to nest there?
Joe
It almost sounds like this little bluebird had experience with a trap before and was playing a game. It was wise enough not to go down the chute, for sure, even though the access hole to it would have been open to it after the trap reset.
Tiy are suggesting the 1-1/2" escape hole in the counterweight compartment? What would keep small domestic birds from trying to nest there?
Joe
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Joe Zorn
Well, I am not getting much action on this question, and I guess it seems like a unnecessary question. But I really need some help, if possible.
I've built a version of the NB Compact Trap, found on the Internet, but am having troubles "tuning" it to drop all the way down to the floor when it has the 4 quarters, and then returning all the way to the top when it is empty.
I can have one or the other, but not both. I am wondering just how heavy those the E.Starling and the E House Sparrow actually are.
With what I have now, part of either the entrance or escape hole will be visible to the bird while inside.
True, I have used a lot of available materials, but stuck with the dimentions almost exactly. I varied a little on technique. Nothing that will affect the operation of the device.
For instance, I've used lead from half-ounce weighted fishing hooks, instead of washers as counter balence. I cut off the hook from one weight, then drilled tiny holes about 1/2" apart along the balance rod so I can move the last weight forward and backward for fine tuning, using the remaining hook stem attached to the 5oz weight.
So hopefully knowing the weight of the birds will tell me how much tolerance I have on the weight adjustment.
If someone traps the starlings and sparrows, I would appreciate it greatly if one of each could be weightd before disposal.
Thanks
Joe
I've built a version of the NB Compact Trap, found on the Internet, but am having troubles "tuning" it to drop all the way down to the floor when it has the 4 quarters, and then returning all the way to the top when it is empty.
I can have one or the other, but not both. I am wondering just how heavy those the E.Starling and the E House Sparrow actually are.
With what I have now, part of either the entrance or escape hole will be visible to the bird while inside.
True, I have used a lot of available materials, but stuck with the dimentions almost exactly. I varied a little on technique. Nothing that will affect the operation of the device.
For instance, I've used lead from half-ounce weighted fishing hooks, instead of washers as counter balence. I cut off the hook from one weight, then drilled tiny holes about 1/2" apart along the balance rod so I can move the last weight forward and backward for fine tuning, using the remaining hook stem attached to the 5oz weight.
So hopefully knowing the weight of the birds will tell me how much tolerance I have on the weight adjustment.
If someone traps the starlings and sparrows, I would appreciate it greatly if one of each could be weightd before disposal.
Thanks
Joe
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TreeGreenwood
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:27 pm
- Location: Virginia/Catlett
You can find the answers at http://www.birds.cornell.edu/programs/A ... rling.html and http://www.birds.cornell.edu/programs/A ... arrow.html.
European Starlings typically weigh from 60 to 96 grams.
English House Sparrows typically weigh from 26 to 32 grams.
European Starlings typically weigh from 60 to 96 grams.
English House Sparrows typically weigh from 26 to 32 grams.
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Joe Zorn
Thanks, TB
That's exactly what I needed. I looked for quite a while, and almost every site I went to wanted me to be a member, most were research organizations that I could not join. Others demand you subscribe to their magazine before you can log into their website.
This answers my questions.
Joe
That's exactly what I needed. I looked for quite a while, and almost every site I went to wanted me to be a member, most were research organizations that I could not join. Others demand you subscribe to their magazine before you can log into their website.
This answers my questions.
Joe
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Joe Zorn
Well, that makes me feel a LOT better, folks. I have been at trying to set this thing all after noon and into the evening.
In that case, would a smaller trap, built exactly the same way, but to minimized dimentions work for sparrows? Say with a 1 lb coffee can, about 4" in diameter, rather than the 6-1/8 larger one. I would be lighter, and easier to counterbalance.
Has this been tried before? With what results?
Joe
In that case, would a smaller trap, built exactly the same way, but to minimized dimentions work for sparrows? Say with a 1 lb coffee can, about 4" in diameter, rather than the 6-1/8 larger one. I would be lighter, and easier to counterbalance.
Has this been tried before? With what results?
Joe
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Weight of the assembly is the critical factor in my estimation. If you could use extremely lightweight thin materials, you may get it to trip for the sparrows and reset...Just my opinion, no, I have not tried it.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Joe Zorn
Emil,
Those little sparrows are escaping through the entrance hole, because when the trap falls, they are frightened and start flapping and jumping. The can becomes momentarily light, and tries to reset. The sparrow sees the hole reopen and darts for it. When it gets its head or feet into the hole, it's body weight is completely off the can, so it resets completely. On the other hand, the starling weighs between 2 and 3.4 oz. Even jumping around, it's too heavy to allow the can to reset. It's only escape is through the exit hole.
I don't know how the other S&S traps are built, but I imagine they are about like the NB Trap models that I built today. Picking up that heavy 2lb size coffee can requires a lot of counterbalance, and little sparrows, averaging about a single ounce each, just don't have the body weight to make it make it operate well.
A couple of alternatives that I have thought of is:
- Use another 6" material that is lighter than the coffee can. Perhaps a walk through a grocery store, Walmart, or Home Depot would provide a super light container made entirely of plastic about that size. Hopefully it would contain a product that you need, but if not...
- Use a dremil tool and cut the weighty 6.1 oz (with lids removed on each end) can to about 2/3rds of it's actual length (6-1/8 inches) - to 4", thereby taking away two full ounces from its weight.
- As you said, use much lighter construction materials. The original plan calls for a 1" x 2" about 8.5" long. for the balance bar. I bet that could be a 1/2" x 3/4" or maybe smaller and made from lightweight wood, even balsa. The plan's pivot bar calls for 3/4" x 3/4" x 7". Why not use a 1/4" dowel stick? Etc.
The idea would be to make the can slam down to the floor with the little sparrow's one ounce body weight, and stay down until it is out of the trap through the exit hole, as it does with the heavier starling.
If all this has already been tried, I love to hear the results.
Joe
Those little sparrows are escaping through the entrance hole, because when the trap falls, they are frightened and start flapping and jumping. The can becomes momentarily light, and tries to reset. The sparrow sees the hole reopen and darts for it. When it gets its head or feet into the hole, it's body weight is completely off the can, so it resets completely. On the other hand, the starling weighs between 2 and 3.4 oz. Even jumping around, it's too heavy to allow the can to reset. It's only escape is through the exit hole.
I don't know how the other S&S traps are built, but I imagine they are about like the NB Trap models that I built today. Picking up that heavy 2lb size coffee can requires a lot of counterbalance, and little sparrows, averaging about a single ounce each, just don't have the body weight to make it make it operate well.
A couple of alternatives that I have thought of is:
- Use another 6" material that is lighter than the coffee can. Perhaps a walk through a grocery store, Walmart, or Home Depot would provide a super light container made entirely of plastic about that size. Hopefully it would contain a product that you need, but if not...
- Use a dremil tool and cut the weighty 6.1 oz (with lids removed on each end) can to about 2/3rds of it's actual length (6-1/8 inches) - to 4", thereby taking away two full ounces from its weight.
- As you said, use much lighter construction materials. The original plan calls for a 1" x 2" about 8.5" long. for the balance bar. I bet that could be a 1/2" x 3/4" or maybe smaller and made from lightweight wood, even balsa. The plan's pivot bar calls for 3/4" x 3/4" x 7". Why not use a 1/4" dowel stick? Etc.
The idea would be to make the can slam down to the floor with the little sparrow's one ounce body weight, and stay down until it is out of the trap through the exit hole, as it does with the heavier starling.
If all this has already been tried, I love to hear the results.
Joe
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Joe Zorn
Still thinking...
After making all materials lighter, I think the most important things would be to make the can fall further to the floor. Don't weight it so much for a fast return, just so it does return to the top. When the frightened bird starts jumping around, the entrance hole is too high for the can to go all the way up with the birds weight occasionally on it. The sparrow never gets to see the entrance hole again. Eventually, it will stop jumping, and the can will settle on the floor, offering an escape route, and then on to the collection basket.
Joe
After making all materials lighter, I think the most important things would be to make the can fall further to the floor. Don't weight it so much for a fast return, just so it does return to the top. When the frightened bird starts jumping around, the entrance hole is too high for the can to go all the way up with the birds weight occasionally on it. The sparrow never gets to see the entrance hole again. Eventually, it will stop jumping, and the can will settle on the floor, offering an escape route, and then on to the collection basket.
Joe
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Joe, instead of making the can fall further, I concentrated on making the can fall the least amount of distance, because I thought it would be easier to reset...I will be interested in your results.
Leverage is important in resetting, so maybe the longer arms, together with lighter material, would make it easier to reset...Of course, the longer the arm, the slower the arm movement would be.
However, my ideas may be backward...smile I never tried any of this so I don't know..
Leverage is important in resetting, so maybe the longer arms, together with lighter material, would make it easier to reset...Of course, the longer the arm, the slower the arm movement would be.
However, my ideas may be backward...smile I never tried any of this so I don't know..
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Joe Zorn
Emil,
TreeGreenwood came upwith a website that has precise details on how to construct one for the lighter sparrow. It uses a sliced off plastic maynaise jar for the can. This is along the idea that I was thinking. With other materials made lighter as well, it should work.
I think that website is on this post string, but it may be on the other one that seems to be mirroring each other right now.
Compression springs? Hmm.. that would solve some other logistical problems as well. A spring, in conjunction with some sort of turnbuckle system to fine tune might just be the answer.
Thanks to both
Joe
TreeGreenwood came upwith a website that has precise details on how to construct one for the lighter sparrow. It uses a sliced off plastic maynaise jar for the can. This is along the idea that I was thinking. With other materials made lighter as well, it should work.
I think that website is on this post string, but it may be on the other one that seems to be mirroring each other right now.
Compression springs? Hmm.. that would solve some other logistical problems as well. A spring, in conjunction with some sort of turnbuckle system to fine tune might just be the answer.
Thanks to both
Joe
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Guest
I don't know if you have a trap that isn't repeating, such as the Universal sparrow trap or if you shoot starlings, but one time when I was in the process of building one of my NB compact traps, I though, "What better way to see how it would work when a starling steps inside is to actually have one to test the trap!" It just so happened that I caught a starling in my Trio house with a UST, so after it was deceased, I tested the elevator mechanism with the starling and could get it fine tuned that way. I start out by putting lead fishing sinkers in the empty film canister and then get things just right by ending with BBs. It works like a charm.
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Bob Buskas
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:08 pm
- Location: Wetaskiwin Alberta, Canada
An English house Sparrow weighs 32 grams. Use 5 US Quarters to set your trap. I have weights on Starlings recorded out in my shop and can get those weights if you need them.
Bob Buskas, Alberta, Canada (The Northern Sky's Colony) Supplimental feeding is the key during bad weather, but you must train them to feed ahead of time.
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Bob Buskas
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:08 pm
- Location: Wetaskiwin Alberta, Canada
An English house Sparrow weighs 32 grams. Use 5 US Quarters to set your trap. I have weights on Starlings recorded out in my shop and can get those weights if you need them.
Bob Buskas, Alberta, Canada (The Northern Sky's Colony) Supplimental feeding is the key during bad weather, but you must train them to feed ahead of time.
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Joe Zorn
Mary, I am still in the process of putting together my first NB Trap. I now have it set to catch starlings. I gave up on making it work for sparrows.
I will just make the Sparrow Trap, using the mayonaise jar and film canister that you talk about for the sparrows. I've been looking it over and it looks really simple..
Bob, Thanks. I think I have the answers I need now. For a couple of days, I could find no reference on the internet to the weight of either bird. Now I find it everyplace I look. Just a run of bad luck, I guess.
I will just make the Sparrow Trap, using the mayonaise jar and film canister that you talk about for the sparrows. I've been looking it over and it looks really simple..
Bob, Thanks. I think I have the answers I need now. For a couple of days, I could find no reference on the internet to the weight of either bird. Now I find it everyplace I look. Just a run of bad luck, I guess.
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Joe Zorn
Hi there MN Gal!
Here's the website that another site member sent me on it.
http:///// ///.com/pm/spartrap.htm
Looks real easy, and very light.
Joe
Here's the website that another site member sent me on it.
http:///// ///.com/pm/spartrap.htm
Looks real easy, and very light.
Joe
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Guest
Joe thanks so much. We built one of these traps but use light weight alum for the mayo container.
I thought it was going to be trap with a quart mayo jar and thought it was a new type of trap I had not heard of.
One other thing you may want to do is use a light weight metal arm for the jar a counter wieght it makes it faster acting yet.
Be very careful wit this trap as you will catch wrens chickadees and wood peckers.
Thanks
MN martin gal
I thought it was going to be trap with a quart mayo jar and thought it was a new type of trap I had not heard of.
One other thing you may want to do is use a light weight metal arm for the jar a counter wieght it makes it faster acting yet.
Be very careful wit this trap as you will catch wrens chickadees and wood peckers.
Thanks
MN martin gal