Question about modifying a 6 x 6 x 6

[Joe Zorn]

It's pretty clear that, of the three wooden houses that I am currently constructing for myself, my son in Austin Tx, and my daughter - my own personal house will not be able to go up this year. We plan a move in April, if all goes as planned. Could even be May. If we get moved early enough, perhaps I can quickly get the pole set and up before the SY's finish nest selections.

My question. In modifying wooden houses to the 6 x 6 x 12 apartment configuration, where is the nest built? Do the PM's put the nest to the furthest point away from the entrance as possible? If I put my Access points (4" plastic jars with screw type lids) on that fartherst wall, will the nest be right by the opening when I take the lids off?

In opening the wall between the two rooms, I simply used the 4" hole saw that I used for the access jars to cut a hole between the rooms. Is that okay?

I'd like to prebuild the nests, as I have seen instructed here, but don't think I am brave enough for that yet.

Comments are WELCOMED and appreciated.

Joe

[Mary Wilson-SW Ont]

Joe, martins will instinctively build as far away from the entrance hole as possible - it is their way of keeping their young as safe as possible from weather effects and the reach of predators. So yes, the nest will be right by your access port, so don't put it too low in the wall - higher is better. As to prebuilding nests, don't be afraid to just put in a nice layer of nesting material - it makes the birds more comfortable, and probably more importantly gives the house that "lived in" look. And it will most definitely NOT be a deterrent to martins, but rather an attractant. As to the hole between compartments, a smaller hole (I think 3" is the recommended size), positioned more to the side of the interior wall, helps to shield the nest from the view of a predator such as an owl. You might want to consider adding some simple to make owl guards to your houses - check the archives here for lots of good info. Good luck this year !!!!

[Adam Romain]

Hey Joe!!!

You are correct in that the martins will build their nest as far as possible from the compartment entrance. If your compartment is straight back, they will build it against the back wall. If your compartments is to the left or right of the entrance, they will build the nest to the that side against the back wall.

The best place for your access port is on the back wall for a "straight" compartment and as far as you can along the side wall of a "left/right" compartment.

As for using the hole saw, it is ok. It would be better to remove the wall entirely; however, that may not be possible if it endangers the integrity of the house. I actually used a 2" hole saw when coverting some home compartment and the martins did great!. They basically nest in the same size room as before, but the converted rooms give them much needed protection against flying predators. One word of caution, if starlings are around, they too will like the larger room so be ready to eliminate them!

And about building pre-nest, you can do it!!! Just put a handful of nesting materials into the compartments and the martins will do the rest. Hope you have a great season!!!..............Adam.

[Joe Zorn]

Thanks to Mary and to Adam. I was thinking along those lines, but often I have senior moments when my thinking and logic don't always rhyme. Our local humorist, in today's paper, quoted a Pogo Cartoon. "If brains were shoes, I'd be barefoot to the knees".

In one of my houses, the compartments are strait. entrance on one side of the house, Access port on the opposite side.

On another, all the double rooms are going to be what you are called side entrances. This house has two stories with four 6 x 6 x 6 compartments on each side, each floor.

I put the access ports on each end of the house, four each....like four adjacent checkers. So that tells me to use only the two middle rooms as entrances on each side, top and bottom. Now I will have four double room apartments, all with side entrances. Is this what you had in mind? I am thinking that in this way, I can open up the access port and...and get to both rooms in a strait line.

Mary, on the three inch hole, my senior moment lapsed quickly enough on the first house, that I cut 4" holes in the bottom walls, but switched to 3-1'8" holes in the top compartments. I already had that saw and don't want to buy another saw 1/8' smaller for $15 or more.

But on the second and third houses, I have not yet made the conversion. Adam says to just the 2" round hole saw. Is that agreed? Can't do away with the wall in any of them, but can cut it away as much as 1" from the inside side wall (wall construction is the slotted together "+" pattern).

Thanks again.

Joe

[Adam Romain]

I think you've got it right Joe!!!

On your 8 to 4 room sides, sounds as if the martins will enter the middle four entrances, 2 top and bottom, and will then nest in the outside rooms where you have the access ports. That's what I am suggesting!!!

Regarding the hole size, I was just indicating that a 2" will work if that's the only size you have. I didn't have a larger hole saw and used the 2" and it worked fine. If you have a 3 1/8, I believe it will work great and I suggest you use it instead of buying another 1/8 smaller.

[Joe Zorn]

Yes, Exactly like that!

Okay, then I will do as Mary says and use the 3-1/8 hole. Then I can put my hand into the "entrance" room, if tightly, if the need arises.


Thanks to both of you

Joe

[John Barrow]

Joe, while Adam is correct that a 2 inch inner hole will generally work fine, I have learned the hard way that it is risky and would suggest you go with at least a 3 inch hole leading to the inner compartment. 3 and 1/8 is great.

The potential problem with using the smaller inner hole relates to the fact that it is not visible except during nestchecks. I had a situation where an alpha female killed an intruding female in a 6x12 inch coates compartment I had modified by cutting a 2 inch hole leading to the back compartment. I was unable to see the dead female that had become lodged in the 2 inch hole, thereby trapping the alpha female in the rear compartment. Luckily, I did a nestcheck before the alpha female died and was able to hydrate and feed her and she survived. But she never reentered that house and the old male ended up nesting with an SY female.

Occassionally, recent fledglings will get trapped in two inch round holes-usually by getting a wing trapped on the outside of the hole after they have entered or vice versa. That problem can be seen and fixed on outside holes, but if it happens at an interior passageway, it could lead not only to that bird's starvation, but also to any others trapped in the rear compartment. I don't think that situation is likely to occur with holes 3 inches or more.

Best of luck, John

[Joe Zorn]

Wow, some great points, and coming from a voice of experience.


I have done a lot of reading on this site, and did see one article that showed a 2" hole between rooms but never really specified that it MUST be that size. I just could not help thinking that the entrance room would essentially be isolated from the access ports. That bothered me a lot Any number of things could go unnoticed in there.

I Appreciate that, John.

Joe

[CUL Lou~Mich]

Joe. I hope you didn't cut all the entrances yet. It would be much better to have half of them on one side, the other half on the opposite side. With all of them on one side, there will be lots of "Male Domination" wherein one male might control the whole floor, and not allow any other pairs in. If you have them already cut, you might try putting a piece of this aluminum, or plastic between the doorways. That will sometimes work. Make them long enough that the males can't just look around to the other side. If you still have the entrances to cut though, it's much better to have them alternating. IE An entrance, then a back wall, then an entrance etc. Use this configuration on each floor, but alternate. Good luck. CUL Lou

[Joe Zorn]

No, they are cut now, Lou. But with the access port configuration, I really had to have the entrance holes as the two middle holes on each floor, on each side. These were preexisting houses and the access ports had to be put on the ends of the house, as they would not go well on either side with the current configuration. It would have demanded a major rebuild of the house. I was not up to that. The old entrance holes on each end were closed up from the inside and painted black to similate the entrances they once were.

I did construct a divider between the two middle entrances, but there is was no attempt made to keep the birds from just looking around the divider to the other side. There is about 3/8 inches of divider that extends beyond the porch floor and roof on the lower floor. On the top floor, I have not constructed a porch at all. Was thinking about using only perches up there, but on the ends, where the blocked entrances are. In this way, the PM would have no opportunity to come into physical contact by being nosey, unless they just land on the other side to raid it.

I am not convinced that PM's need a porch or perch to get into their nest. The best wooden house I ever built had no porches, but only perches at each hole. It was a four room 6 x 6 x 6 configuration, two floors. One entrance was on right upper right, the other on lower left of all four sides. Had 100% occupancy in the first year at that location and witnessed very little squabbling. Prior to that, I always had terrible cases of male domination. Sometimes a male would try to protect two adjacent sides of a house for a long while. That was before the internet, and my discovery of male porch domination was learned the hard way.

[Guest]

Joe, the fact that you are enlarging the compartments will make such a difference to the martins! You'll be pleasantly surprised at the outcome, I'm sure! Regarding the addition of nesting material: that is one of my favorite things to do to get ready for the return of the martins. It is rather like putting clean sheets on a guest bed when you are expecting company! Usually I put cedar shavings, and I have even put some timothy hay. It is great to put pine straw if you have that available. I also want to mention the fact that this past year I added a very small amount of powdered sevin to the bottom of each compartment, under the nesting material. I believe it provided a much improved nesting scenario for our martins, because the year before (2004), we had a virtual explosion of mite infestation, and this past year, there was NO evidence of that. Good luck this year! -- RG

[Joe Zorn]

RG,

My neighbor has two pine trees on our adjoining property line. I am deluged with pine needles and pine cones!

I will put a handful or needles in each of the compartments.

I've been watching the discussion about the Seven dust. I guess, on your additional advice, I will do that too. Was really afraid to do that, but no one has produced any evidence of harm done, if done in moderation I suppose.

Joe

[Guest]

Joe, the amount of sevin powder I put in the bottom of each nest was around 1/4 teaspoon, I believe. Not as much as 1/2 teaspoon -- and again, at the very bottom, well covered up by the nesting material. The horror of the mite explosion, late in the season, was something I never wanted to happen again! There were some late hatchlings that were killed by the mites -- SO, knowing that was a distinct possibility as the nesting season progresses, some preventative sevin can save the day! I had read before about it, and did not understand the need, but there is nothing like first hand experience, and if my experience can help someone else, I am happy for that. This past year when I used the sevin at the very beginning of the season (and with nest change-outs), there was no problem with mites, and even the other bugs seemed diminished. Good luck!!! -- RG

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

since Sevin works so good on mites, I will try something different this year, I will spray the bottom of the gourds. All of my gourds have about 3 to 5 holes in the bottom, that would put the spray under the nest and on the pine needles that I added...Seems like a simple way, and surely that should be enough, as the mites crawl toward the light so they will be at the small holes....What do you think?