Hello Everyone,
I just found out some scary news from Nature Society News, That a landlord tried the 4 inch PVC plastic pipe for predator gaurd and it was 4inches too. The 57 inch snake got up the pole and thank God he installed a net trap up above or the snake would have ate all his babies! So, I'm concerned that the 4 inch PVC pipe might be too small around for the snake to go up. I might go ahead and buy the 7 inch PVC pipe to be safe, I don't want the snake problem again this year! What do you all think? How many of you out there use PVC plastic pipe? How big around? And how long? Any snake problems? Thanks, John!
4 Inch PVC Pipe Too Small! Landlord Caught Rat Snake Up Pole
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Craig Haddox
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:13 pm
- Location: Missouri Washington
John, I have been using 4ft. length's of 6 inch. PVC pipe for 4 year's now and I have never had snake problem's or any other predator problems as for as that goes. I guess there is a first time for everything, but so for so good. Good luck this year.
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
John, how tall was the guard? Maybe it was too short. I use 4ft and I never had a snake get into my bluebirds using 4in pvc, 15 years, 4 poles, all 4 to 5ft above the ground.
Also, did he have it sitting on the ground so the snake could not go thru the middle..
Also, did he have it sitting on the ground so the snake could not go thru the middle..
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Guest
John,
I'm no expert on snakes.....but will speculate just the same! Ha!
Assuming a snake could get traction of a PVC pipe (and I don't know if this is possible or not) how long would a snake have to be to climb a pipe of a given size? I will speculate again.....I would guess that a snake would need to coil around the pipe twice to get traction to climb. Once around to hold while the other part of the body moves upward. If at any time one complete ring isn't holding......I'm guessing that snake will fall.
The circumference of a circle = PI*Diameter (PI=3.14) so the circumference of a 4" OD pipe is about 12.5". If my guess above is true, it would take a snake at least 25" long to climb a 4" pipe. Considering the pipe is slick and a snake probably doesn't hold with it's head add 3" more and say it would take a 28" snake.
Note the difference when you go up to a 7" OD pipe, now the circumference is roughly 22". Double that and add 3" (for head that isn't used) and it would take maybe a 45" snake to have much of a chance to climb the pipe. If my theory holds true, it would take a diameter of 11" to stop a 6 ft snake ((72"-3)/2/3.14=11").
Again, I can't claim I know any of this is true but one thing is for certain, the bigger diameter pipe used, the more difficult it is for a snake to climb.
I'm no expert on snakes.....but will speculate just the same! Ha!
Assuming a snake could get traction of a PVC pipe (and I don't know if this is possible or not) how long would a snake have to be to climb a pipe of a given size? I will speculate again.....I would guess that a snake would need to coil around the pipe twice to get traction to climb. Once around to hold while the other part of the body moves upward. If at any time one complete ring isn't holding......I'm guessing that snake will fall.
The circumference of a circle = PI*Diameter (PI=3.14) so the circumference of a 4" OD pipe is about 12.5". If my guess above is true, it would take a snake at least 25" long to climb a 4" pipe. Considering the pipe is slick and a snake probably doesn't hold with it's head add 3" more and say it would take a 28" snake.
Note the difference when you go up to a 7" OD pipe, now the circumference is roughly 22". Double that and add 3" (for head that isn't used) and it would take maybe a 45" snake to have much of a chance to climb the pipe. If my theory holds true, it would take a diameter of 11" to stop a 6 ft snake ((72"-3)/2/3.14=11").
Again, I can't claim I know any of this is true but one thing is for certain, the bigger diameter pipe used, the more difficult it is for a snake to climb.
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John Atteberry
Hello Emil,Hogwild, and Criag,
After reading the article in the nature society news, it stated this happened in 1987! The pipe was a 4 inch plastic pvc pipe and the snake went up it. The pole was 5-6 feet tall! My only question is, did they make PVC pipe different than now? I mean slicker plastic pipe? That was a long time ago, so I speculate that we have better and slicker PVC pipes now than last year! Because why did the snakes try to go up my poles last year and got caught in the netting, and not go to the bluebird house that sits on the 3 inch PVC pipe, after the blue's made two nests there at the same time the martin babies were there? No snake problems at all at the bluebird house that is 30 feet away! Go figure! So I might just be getting too nervous here on something that was back in 1987! I think different materials were involved making PVC pipe back then and now! I will keep my 4 inch PVC pipe up and put netting traps on the groung for safety! Just in case! And after listening to you all about how you all been using PVC pipe for the past years, put my mind at ease! I have a question for you all, How long have you been using the PVC pipe and what size diameter and how long is the pipe? Thanks John!
After reading the article in the nature society news, it stated this happened in 1987! The pipe was a 4 inch plastic pvc pipe and the snake went up it. The pole was 5-6 feet tall! My only question is, did they make PVC pipe different than now? I mean slicker plastic pipe? That was a long time ago, so I speculate that we have better and slicker PVC pipes now than last year! Because why did the snakes try to go up my poles last year and got caught in the netting, and not go to the bluebird house that sits on the 3 inch PVC pipe, after the blue's made two nests there at the same time the martin babies were there? No snake problems at all at the bluebird house that is 30 feet away! Go figure! So I might just be getting too nervous here on something that was back in 1987! I think different materials were involved making PVC pipe back then and now! I will keep my 4 inch PVC pipe up and put netting traps on the groung for safety! Just in case! And after listening to you all about how you all been using PVC pipe for the past years, put my mind at ease! I have a question for you all, How long have you been using the PVC pipe and what size diameter and how long is the pipe? Thanks John!
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Dale Davis
Hi John,
I have been using 7"X 2' long aluminum guards that are sold here in the PMCA Shop and so far have experienced no problems. They are made to tilt or wobble which I would assume would make it more difficult for a snake to climb. I polish them at the beginning of the season and about the middle and they seem to be holding up very well.
I have been using 7"X 2' long aluminum guards that are sold here in the PMCA Shop and so far have experienced no problems. They are made to tilt or wobble which I would assume would make it more difficult for a snake to climb. I polish them at the beginning of the season and about the middle and they seem to be holding up very well.
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Guest
I swiched to 6" PVC sewer pipe, 4' long 3 years ago, and haven't had a snake get past those guards. For the first two years, I topped the guard with netting, but last year I said, "To heck with it!", and had no predation.
Actually, one of my guards is a shorty - only about 3'6", and I had no problems on that pole, either.
It's not because I don't have snakes, either - I live in the middle of Central Texas rat snake heaven here. In the years preceding my use of the pipes, I had at least one pole get hit every year - I lost many, many babies.
Just my $.02
Oh - and I'd like to quibble just a little with the math above: a snake going up any 4' pole is going to have to be at least 4' long just to get past the pipe, regardless of the diameter of the pipe. If you then add in the extra length required to do some coiling (especially if the durn snake is wrapping himself around the pipe), you can easily see that it will take a 5 or 6 footer to get past the 4' PVC. And a 6' rat snake is pretty long - most of ours seem to be in the 4'-5' range.
Or am I reasoning incorrectly?
Actually, one of my guards is a shorty - only about 3'6", and I had no problems on that pole, either.
It's not because I don't have snakes, either - I live in the middle of Central Texas rat snake heaven here. In the years preceding my use of the pipes, I had at least one pole get hit every year - I lost many, many babies.
Just my $.02
Oh - and I'd like to quibble just a little with the math above: a snake going up any 4' pole is going to have to be at least 4' long just to get past the pipe, regardless of the diameter of the pipe. If you then add in the extra length required to do some coiling (especially if the durn snake is wrapping himself around the pipe), you can easily see that it will take a 5 or 6 footer to get past the 4' PVC. And a 6' rat snake is pretty long - most of ours seem to be in the 4'-5' range.
Or am I reasoning incorrectly?
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
John, I started with wooden poles, wooden supports cemented into the ground, and I had to have 8in pvc to cover that assembly. I got scrap pvc that others threw away, some is 3ft 9in, up to 4ft 8in long. I have never cleaned it in 12-15 years. It looks like it could use a good polishing job, I need to do that.
My bluebird poles are 4in, about 4 to 5 ft high, they have been used for 12-15years, and I never had a snake in them either..
My bluebird poles are 4in, about 4 to 5 ft high, they have been used for 12-15years, and I never had a snake in them either..
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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John Atteberry
Hello Emil,
I'm still debating and beating myself up over this! I don't know if I should switch to the 6inch or leave it the way it is! But this weekend I will try to make a decision! HA! John! Thanks Emil for your advice!
I'm still debating and beating myself up over this! I don't know if I should switch to the 6inch or leave it the way it is! But this weekend I will try to make a decision! HA! John! Thanks Emil for your advice!
IMO the PCV get weathered and looses some of it's slickness. I take 600 grit sand paper and wax mine especially at the bottom where stuff seems to splash up more. I also grease a band half way up around mine with petrelonum Jelly creating a insect barrier. I don't want no little red ant;s crawling up them either. I also have the stove pipe guards around mine also though.
Caught a green rat snake up my T-14 wooden pole, He was right at the bottom of the house trying to get around my 8" into 12" by 14"stove pipe adapter I'm using for a predator guard, he clumb up the cable. A little short but it stopped him.
Caught a green rat snake up my T-14 wooden pole, He was right at the bottom of the house trying to get around my 8" into 12" by 14"stove pipe adapter I'm using for a predator guard, he clumb up the cable. A little short but it stopped him.
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Guest
I would suggest using netting as a secondary guard even though the PVC may work. I use 8" PVC about 4 foot high, but I still respect snakes climbing abilities. I don't think I have had any snakes up my poles since I put in the 8" pipe.
A friend told me she saw a snake try to get up one of my poles last year. She said the snake could not get up and she shoed it off.
I did have a snake get by a previous guard...the netting got it. It was very difficult to get that snake out of the netting. A two person job.
I carried away 3 or 4 large rat snakes last year around the yard. I don't trust them. They can climb. I let them live somewhere else.
A friend told me she saw a snake try to get up one of my poles last year. She said the snake could not get up and she shoed it off.
I did have a snake get by a previous guard...the netting got it. It was very difficult to get that snake out of the netting. A two person job.
I carried away 3 or 4 large rat snakes last year around the yard. I don't trust them. They can climb. I let them live somewhere else.
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Guest
Fatboy: Was the previous guard that the snake got by (and got caught by netting) one of your 8" x 4' PVC pipes?
I ask because I've quit putting netting up because I thought the pipes were foolproof. I figured any snake that could navigate thoe pipes was capable of breaking out of the netting!
You're right about how difficult it is to get the snakes out of the netting. I've caught them before and I pretty well had to cut the netting to shreds to get the snakes loose. One time I caught 2 snakes at once - that was a real hoot trying to get them loose!
I ask because I've quit putting netting up because I thought the pipes were foolproof. I figured any snake that could navigate thoe pipes was capable of breaking out of the netting!
You're right about how difficult it is to get the snakes out of the netting. I've caught them before and I pretty well had to cut the netting to shreds to get the snakes loose. One time I caught 2 snakes at once - that was a real hoot trying to get them loose!
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Guest
Two snakes!....they may be on their own to get out. I agree about having to destroy the netting or the snake when removing one from another.
The guard I had was an inverted cone baffle made of aluminum flashing. It was about 3 feet in diameter and about 3 feet off of the ground. ( I wanted to put it below my winch.) I noticed on a nest check that some eggs were gone. So I put the netting up on top of the baffle. That is when I caught the snake. About 5-6 foot long. I don't know how it got on top of the baffle, but he old people say they can stand on their tails.
The next year I got the PVC pipe and removed the baffle. I still use netting, but the PVC may be OK alone...I just want to be sure and I do trust the net traps. Bill
The guard I had was an inverted cone baffle made of aluminum flashing. It was about 3 feet in diameter and about 3 feet off of the ground. ( I wanted to put it below my winch.) I noticed on a nest check that some eggs were gone. So I put the netting up on top of the baffle. That is when I caught the snake. About 5-6 foot long. I don't know how it got on top of the baffle, but he old people say they can stand on their tails.
The next year I got the PVC pipe and removed the baffle. I still use netting, but the PVC may be OK alone...I just want to be sure and I do trust the net traps. Bill
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Guest
Ok, Bill - just wanted to make sure that it wasn't the PVC the snake had got past.
A few years ago I had electrified my pole with a fence charger, and the durn snakes got past! Netting caught those, though.
I'm a confirmed PVCer now, however. The only problem with 4' of PVC is that I have to relocate the winches a little higher than I'd like, which makes it impossible to lower the entire rig down to where I can work on it without having to stand on a very short step ladder (2 steps). Small price to pay for peace of mind, though...
A few years ago I had electrified my pole with a fence charger, and the durn snakes got past! Netting caught those, though.
I'm a confirmed PVCer now, however. The only problem with 4' of PVC is that I have to relocate the winches a little higher than I'd like, which makes it impossible to lower the entire rig down to where I can work on it without having to stand on a very short step ladder (2 steps). Small price to pay for peace of mind, though...
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
I have used the netting alone, but the tiny rat snakes can usually get thru it, and the small ones stay up in the housing for many days, they don't eat a lot, but if they stay there long enough, they will clean out any eggs & babies...I use pvc plus an electric fence at the top of it, I added the electric fence this year, mainly because a racoon has been known to climb pvc..
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps