I live in an area of intense starling competition and currently, all of my housing has crescent entrances. I started my colony with all SREH and in the last three years, four starlings have made it through the crescents. They were quickly eliminated using nest box traps and no harm was done.
With this in mind, I am planning on adding four gourds to my PM housing and the new Excluder Gourd looks very interesting. I like to try new things and I am curious as to our more experienced members? comparisons of crescents, modified excluders, and excluder entrances.
Bob Burkard
Douglassville, PA
p.s. This time of year it sure is fun to build new PM houses and plan for the upcoming spring.
Advice on Entrances
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Bob Burkard
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:56 pm
- Location: Oldsmar, FL
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Bob Burkard
Oldsmar, FL
Oldsmar, FL
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
I have caught live starlings and put different entrances on a special box, and put the starlings into the box to see how quickly they could get out (I was in a small room where the starling could not escape).
They actually could get out of all types, but it was most difficult for them to get out of the excluder. The other 2 entrances tested about equally.. You must remember, these are starling resistant, not starling proof. I personally like the modified excluder the best because the martins learn to use them the quickest. I have seen martins try for days and could not learn to get into the excluder, but some learned quickly. Another excellent idea is to put the entrance within 1/4inch or 3/16inch of the outside floor, this seems to help tremendously..I was looking at your nice house, and it looks like the porches may be about 3/8inch or 1/2inch above the porch. If they are, it would help to put a thin piece of cork or something on the porch to reduce the height between the porch and the entrance to 3/16in..(Your house is really a nice looking place for martins, how could they refuse?)
The thing several people found is that starlings are not all the same size, and the smallest of the small can usually get into any entrance if they try hard enough..
What works best is to have a trap nearby with a big round hole, placed near some bushes or small tree so the martins won't use it. The starlings make an attempt at the SREH, and then fly to the trap..If you have a repeater trap, you may catch several that way on the same day...The location of the trap is critical. I had one near a sidewalk where we walk quite a bit, and it didn't work good there, the starlings didn't like us walking near the trap, so put the trap as far away from human traffic as you can..
Bob, if you get those new gourds, the mounting holes have a porch that is 5/8in below the entrance. I would very definitely redrill the holes and put the porch 3/16in below the entrance. This would be a must if I was purchasing them..
Good luck this year..I am really busy hanging gourds, I am expecting the first martin this week! its so exciting already..
They actually could get out of all types, but it was most difficult for them to get out of the excluder. The other 2 entrances tested about equally.. You must remember, these are starling resistant, not starling proof. I personally like the modified excluder the best because the martins learn to use them the quickest. I have seen martins try for days and could not learn to get into the excluder, but some learned quickly. Another excellent idea is to put the entrance within 1/4inch or 3/16inch of the outside floor, this seems to help tremendously..I was looking at your nice house, and it looks like the porches may be about 3/8inch or 1/2inch above the porch. If they are, it would help to put a thin piece of cork or something on the porch to reduce the height between the porch and the entrance to 3/16in..(Your house is really a nice looking place for martins, how could they refuse?)
The thing several people found is that starlings are not all the same size, and the smallest of the small can usually get into any entrance if they try hard enough..
What works best is to have a trap nearby with a big round hole, placed near some bushes or small tree so the martins won't use it. The starlings make an attempt at the SREH, and then fly to the trap..If you have a repeater trap, you may catch several that way on the same day...The location of the trap is critical. I had one near a sidewalk where we walk quite a bit, and it didn't work good there, the starlings didn't like us walking near the trap, so put the trap as far away from human traffic as you can..
Bob, if you get those new gourds, the mounting holes have a porch that is 5/8in below the entrance. I would very definitely redrill the holes and put the porch 3/16in below the entrance. This would be a must if I was purchasing them..
Good luck this year..I am really busy hanging gourds, I am expecting the first martin this week! its so exciting already..
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Guest
Bob,
You have a beautiful site and even better looking housing!!!
Ditto what Emil said. <grin>
Height above the porch is a big factor on the success of a SREH. I like no more than 1/4". Emil suggested raising your porch or adding cork to your existing porch to reduce the distance from teh porch to teh bottom of the crescent. That is a good suggestion and will make your current crescents more starling resistant (they have long legs and it's more difficult for them to "crouch" and get a good angle to enter).
I like the modified excluder (the one called a WDC). The one on the gourds you mention appears very close to the WDC....maybe exactly the same, not sure. What I like is that the protrusions from the bottom of the entry prevent a starling from rotating sideways where the breastbone might fit thru the opening. With the protrusions in place, Connley (the designer of the WDC) increased the height of the center opening to 1.215" and it still works well keeping starlings out. It's much easier for a martin to get thru a 1.215" opening than it is through a 1 3/16" (1.188") opening on most SREHs including the crescent. This is why most folks say martins "learn them faster" or "seem to have less difficulty with them". The radius between the protrusions on the bottom of the WDC may still be a 1 3/16" radius......I'm not sure about this.
The above is my opinion. The size of the opening on the WDC is a fact. I've measured several that were made from templates created by Connley (Sandy Bunn's entrances).
You have a beautiful site and even better looking housing!!!
Ditto what Emil said. <grin>
Height above the porch is a big factor on the success of a SREH. I like no more than 1/4". Emil suggested raising your porch or adding cork to your existing porch to reduce the distance from teh porch to teh bottom of the crescent. That is a good suggestion and will make your current crescents more starling resistant (they have long legs and it's more difficult for them to "crouch" and get a good angle to enter).
I like the modified excluder (the one called a WDC). The one on the gourds you mention appears very close to the WDC....maybe exactly the same, not sure. What I like is that the protrusions from the bottom of the entry prevent a starling from rotating sideways where the breastbone might fit thru the opening. With the protrusions in place, Connley (the designer of the WDC) increased the height of the center opening to 1.215" and it still works well keeping starlings out. It's much easier for a martin to get thru a 1.215" opening than it is through a 1 3/16" (1.188") opening on most SREHs including the crescent. This is why most folks say martins "learn them faster" or "seem to have less difficulty with them". The radius between the protrusions on the bottom of the WDC may still be a 1 3/16" radius......I'm not sure about this.
The above is my opinion. The size of the opening on the WDC is a fact. I've measured several that were made from templates created by Connley (Sandy Bunn's entrances).
Actually Crescents have less area, but at the entry point excluders are the most restrictive. When you enlay them on top of each other you can see which one's are the most restrictive. IMO that's why the excluder's are harder for the PM's to learn. I also like the WDC's, they just seem to take right to them IMO and I haven't seen a starling penterate them yet, Not saying it can't happen, just I haven't seen it. I try to post a picture of holes enlayed on top of each other.
I have tested several starlings and entry holes designs. From What I have tested I know exactly what a starling can get through down to the MM. It's a matter of prefecting a demension and pattern that allows a PM to easily enter (without pressure on it's breast bone and back) and restrict starlings. I have one proven design and one prototype to be tested for easy of PM entry. No STARLING has yet penatrated them when their life depended on it in two years (just to get this far it took about 20 demension changes to the same hole (I've tested 4 of my own designs, Happy with one).
I figure a couple more years of research and I'll have "A RESTRICTOR" and not a resistant design. Atleast that's my gold? maybe it can be done and maybe it can't, but I'm going to find out.
I figure a couple more years of research and I'll have "A RESTRICTOR" and not a resistant design. Atleast that's my gold? maybe it can be done and maybe it can't, but I'm going to find out.
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Laverne
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:58 pm
- Location: TX/Alvin
- Martin Colony History: Erected 1st house in 1997. Birds were checking it out before Mike got down from the ladder. Six cavities had a little colony 1st year. Grown to 88 cavities all gourds with near 100% occupancy. Most important factor for success is rain = bugs.
Hi Bob.Bob Burkard wrote:I live in an area of intense starling competition and currently, all of my housing has crescent entrances. I started my colony with all SREH and in the last three years, four starlings have made it through the crescents. They were quickly eliminated using nest box traps and no harm was done.
With this in mind, I am planning on adding four gourds to my PM housing and the new Excluder Gourd looks very interesting. I like to try new things and I am curious as to our more experienced members? comparisons of crescents, modified excluders, and excluder entrances.
Bob Burkard
Douglassville, PA
p.s. This time of year it sure is fun to build new PM houses and plan for the upcoming spring.
I only have ten years experience, but I've done a lot of experimenting, and I definitely have an "opinion" ...
I love the excluders because they kept the stupid starlings out of my martin housing. When I bought my SuperGourds they were not available with the excluder entrance - so I got crescents. The photo of your housing is indeed beautiful - and I can see that there is about a 1/2" drop from the bottom of the crescent to the floor of the porch. I think this measurement is crucial. If you raise the floor up to 1/4" or even flush you should eliminate the starlings ability to enter the cavity. As for which entrance to purchase on your SGs - I would go with the WDC. I would at least order a few of them and test for myself. I may do that now anyway - now that they are available... They just look more Martin friendly to my eye.
Sincerely,
Laverne
Sincerely,
Laverne
Laverne
"OOOKKKK" for what I have read on patent's and the way I interpret it is you can buy them then copy them for your own personal use, but you cannot copy for resale, unless you have contacted the original patenter?!? Is this how everybody else interprets it??? Kind of like a CD or Cassette ain't it?????
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Dave S (Texas)
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:42 am
- Location: Round Rock, Tx
When I started in the landlord business, I bought a house that had round holes....didn't know any better. I took the advice of veteran landlords and made SREs. When the first birds showed up and could not enter the house, I got to pondering. I reasoned that the floor was too low and the birds could not propel themselves thru the opening. I cut some cedar floors and installed them exactly even with the bottom of the SRE. After a few nervous hours of watching them, finally they figured out the SRE. Neither the colony nor I have looked back since! The soft wood gave the birds some 'purchase' to gain entrance. The main thing with SREs is to have the exterior floor even with the bottom of the SRE. For the interior floor I have them set a little lower than the SRE. My residents almost fly directly into their apartments.
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roblrich
From reading this thread, it seems that most "would think" that the porch design of the new 'Excluder Gourds' (as shown mounted in the PMCA Catalog & online PMCA Shop), especially with the crescent entry holes, is a flawed design being as low as it is.
I suppose one could ignore the 'Excluder Gourds' pre-drilled installation holes and mount the porches higher. But this just convinces me even more that natural gourds are the way to go. I mean if you have to modify something, even if it may be trivial, might as well do it on a natural and make them the way you want. But I might change my mind after the first dozen naturals or so.
I plan on adding two dozen or more gourds this season and I have my first dozen naturals ordered, and I plan on getting started right away. But before it's all said and done, I might get tired drilling and painting, relent and pull out those dozen, old round hole Supergourds stashed in my shed that I replaced two years ago with crescents. But then I would have to modify and install 3/4" PVC elbow vents and replace the round entry holes with S&K Crescents and porches. Grrr, might as well deal with the naturals. See what I mean?
I suppose one could ignore the 'Excluder Gourds' pre-drilled installation holes and mount the porches higher. But this just convinces me even more that natural gourds are the way to go. I mean if you have to modify something, even if it may be trivial, might as well do it on a natural and make them the way you want. But I might change my mind after the first dozen naturals or so.
I plan on adding two dozen or more gourds this season and I have my first dozen naturals ordered, and I plan on getting started right away. But before it's all said and done, I might get tired drilling and painting, relent and pull out those dozen, old round hole Supergourds stashed in my shed that I replaced two years ago with crescents. But then I would have to modify and install 3/4" PVC elbow vents and replace the round entry holes with S&K Crescents and porches. Grrr, might as well deal with the naturals. See what I mean?
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Bob Burkard
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:56 pm
- Location: Oldsmar, FL
Thanks for all our responses. It is an interesting topic.
I guess that since I am having good luck with the crescents, I should just stick with these.
Bob
I guess that since I am having good luck with the crescents, I should just stick with these.
Bob
Bob Burkard
Oldsmar, FL
Oldsmar, FL
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Guest
This is so true. Few things help out martins more. So why hasn't this been done????? The PMCA should be the experts and folks come here for information......and why is it not provided?MN Martin Gal wrote: I would like to see the PMCA investigate this [SREH dimensions] and help out martins by making this info available to everyone one a help page.
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Guest
RC,
It appears you have the WDC drawn with a height of 1 3/16". Is that how you have it drawn or does it just apear that way?
It appears you have the WDC drawn with a height of 1 3/16". Is that how you have it drawn or does it just apear that way?
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roblrich
If it is only the simple dimensions of a SREH that you are looking for, I pulled this off the internet just a minute ago.
Last edited by roblrich on Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hogwild, these are factory brought plates, they are over layed on top of each other exactly of there demensions. WDC measure between 30.0 mm to 3.7mm (1 3/16" if you use a ruler, I used A caliper which gives a much acturate measurement IMO. Excluders Measure 29.0mm to 30mm.
Cresents are real close to being the same at 30mm. I used 1/4" graf paper but had to reduce it several times in paint to get it to post. Get it to print in quarter inch squares and you will have the exact measurements of the SREH's in question.
Cresents are real close to being the same at 30mm. I used 1/4" graf paper but had to reduce it several times in paint to get it to post. Get it to print in quarter inch squares and you will have the exact measurements of the SREH's in question.
IMO spending a few bucks on Srehs you like is money well spent. If you Have the ability to reproduce them for yourself and have an acturate way of measuring them you be better off than just trying to copy them from scratch. Man it's hard typing left handed. had Cornary Catheter exam yesterday and unable to use my left hand yet. That was FUN 
But, got a day off for it and NO Blockage for me! 
But, got a day off for it and NO Blockage for me! -
Guest
Congratulations on your good health!RC Moser wrote: had Cornary Catheter exam yesterday and unable to use my left hand yet. That was FUN
I also have factory WDC and measured with a dial caliper. Mine measure 1.215" tall in the center. Interesting that there is this much variation. If you meant 30.7mm above, that is 1.21" which is very close to the 1.215" I measured.