John,
At my big super colony in Wacissa, Florida, I started it with unpainted natural gourds and the martins thrived in them! I used unpainted natural gourds at my Grandparents' old colony site a few times and the martins did just fine in them. Now I always paint my natural gourds to hopefully reduce the heat build up and increase their lifespan. But I have seen huge unpainted natural gourd colonies in parts of Georgia, the Carolinas, Alabama and Mississippi.
Steve
Natural Gourd...Outstanding Purple Martin Nesting Cavity
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Guest
I don't have the experience to say one should or shouldn't use SREH for starting a colony. I will say I think it's a good idea to at least have some round holes if you've never attracted a breeding pair.
I put up an S&K starter house last year. It had 6 small nests which I converted to 3 large nests (bought the house before I started reading on the internet about attracting purple martins and the benefit of oversize nests). If I were making the decision today, I would start with a 2 level house with 6 nests.......well, actually I would offer houses on seperate poles if starting again but I digress. Each of the 3 nests had crescent SREH and I made the openings on the same side of the house (another thing I would change is having some of the entries on the opposite side of the house due to porch dominance.....corrected that for this year).
I waited and waited and finally 1 morning in May, my wife Laurie called work and said there was a pair of martins that had been at my house for the last half hour. I was so excited I rushed home from work to see them. They left before I got home but we determined they were an SY pair. Laurie said they would stick their heads in the hole but would never enter a nest. I was calling Dave (at S&K) to place an order and mentioned the SY pair visiting and not entering the house. He suggested I open up the entries or replace with round holes as I could always switch back to SREH later after eggs were laid. I decided that sounded good and went and enlarged all three holes with my pocket knife.
That same afternoon my wife called back and said another pair was visiting.....this time an ASY pair. When I came home from work they were still there. They were going in and out of 1 compartment and seemed to have claimed it. They left around 7:00 PM......and were back the first thing the next morning! Later that morning the first SY pair came back.....and the ASY male ran them off. He wouldn't let any other pair near that porch till after their eggs were hatched. I didn't get that particular pair of SY martins but I would have had a better chance if I had an entry on the opposite side of the house.
I switched the entry on the ASY nest to crescent after the female had been sitting for 10 days or so. Female was nervous and made about 3 attempts at entry before she slipped inside. I was worried about the male but later he hit the entry at full speed and couldn't have entered faster if it were a round hole.
None of this proves anything.......the same martins may have selected my house if I hadn't opened up the crescent holes......or may not have selected my site if I hadn't. Since I couldn't find 1 other house in my area that offered SREH, I think it was a good idea to offer a round entrance.....it's one less variable that might influence a pair to choose another site. No harm in having a combination of SREH and round. In fact, that's what I plan on doing next year. If things go well, I may convert the round to SREH during nesting.
I put up an S&K starter house last year. It had 6 small nests which I converted to 3 large nests (bought the house before I started reading on the internet about attracting purple martins and the benefit of oversize nests). If I were making the decision today, I would start with a 2 level house with 6 nests.......well, actually I would offer houses on seperate poles if starting again but I digress. Each of the 3 nests had crescent SREH and I made the openings on the same side of the house (another thing I would change is having some of the entries on the opposite side of the house due to porch dominance.....corrected that for this year).
I waited and waited and finally 1 morning in May, my wife Laurie called work and said there was a pair of martins that had been at my house for the last half hour. I was so excited I rushed home from work to see them. They left before I got home but we determined they were an SY pair. Laurie said they would stick their heads in the hole but would never enter a nest. I was calling Dave (at S&K) to place an order and mentioned the SY pair visiting and not entering the house. He suggested I open up the entries or replace with round holes as I could always switch back to SREH later after eggs were laid. I decided that sounded good and went and enlarged all three holes with my pocket knife.
That same afternoon my wife called back and said another pair was visiting.....this time an ASY pair. When I came home from work they were still there. They were going in and out of 1 compartment and seemed to have claimed it. They left around 7:00 PM......and were back the first thing the next morning! Later that morning the first SY pair came back.....and the ASY male ran them off. He wouldn't let any other pair near that porch till after their eggs were hatched. I didn't get that particular pair of SY martins but I would have had a better chance if I had an entry on the opposite side of the house.
I switched the entry on the ASY nest to crescent after the female had been sitting for 10 days or so. Female was nervous and made about 3 attempts at entry before she slipped inside. I was worried about the male but later he hit the entry at full speed and couldn't have entered faster if it were a round hole.
None of this proves anything.......the same martins may have selected my house if I hadn't opened up the crescent holes......or may not have selected my site if I hadn't. Since I couldn't find 1 other house in my area that offered SREH, I think it was a good idea to offer a round entrance.....it's one less variable that might influence a pair to choose another site. No harm in having a combination of SREH and round. In fact, that's what I plan on doing next year. If things go well, I may convert the round to SREH during nesting.
This wasn't started as a SREH or round hole post, but it seems to have turned in to one. I fully believe the reports of areas that have no Starlings. My area is not fortunate enough to be one of them, since Starlings are one of, if not the most common bird I see. I do my best to rid my little corner of the earth of them, but for every one that I get I think two takes it's place. I work and can't guard my colony against Starlings during the day and it would not be possible for me to host a colony without SREH. I use only gourds, and all of them have WDC entrances on them. I changed over from crescents last year. I have started 3 colonies in the past three years and all have been totally SREH from the get go. I took the stance from the start that if Martins don't want to nest in my SREH gourds, they can fly 1/2 mile and nest in round holes at someone elses colony. So far it's worked out very well for me. I had one unoccupied gourd out of 48 hanging last year at my second year colony at the farm. I had 4 pair in '04, and 32 nesting pair with the additional gourds claimed by lone SY males that stayed all season this past summer. I hope to hit 75 pair this coming year. If you look at the Starling distribution map http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/bbs/htm96/ ... a4930.html they are one of the most widely distributed birds on the continent. I do live in an area (North AL) that is shown on the map as having a high density of Starlings. If the map is somewhat accurate, there just can't be too many areas where they aren't plentiful. But, I'm sure there are small pockets where the Starling hasn't gained a foothold yet. The majority of the people on this website are knowledgable about Martins and their needs. Most landlords out there probably have never heard of an SREH. They just put up a house or gourds and let nature take it's course. I am one of the very few in my area that offers SREH of some type. It's each persons decision what to offer at their place, but I have great peace of mind knowing that "my" Martins are at least protected from Starlings when I am at work each day.
High quality plastic gourds with porched, tunnelled SREH are Martin magnets.
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Hogwild, Brad
There is place for round holes and srehs and I have always said that. However, I have no need to convert all my successful round holes to srehs when I can easily control my almost nonexistent starling competition with trapping or shooting. Now, that is not to say a significant starling problem will not arise in 2006. I don?t know that. However, I will not arbitrarily change to crescents, excluders or WDCs and blindly ?follow the herd on this Forum?. I have never been one to jump on a bandwagon. I like to study things more closely and draw my own conclusions based on objective data that relates to my situation. Like I have said all along, folks should use the entrance hole that best meets the needs of martins in their colonies and not on what is happening in others many miles away.
Though starlings are abundant, that does not translate into an automatic starling problem for any martin colony. If that were true, then all these thousands of round hole colonies located throughout the USA and Canada would be destroyed and the purple martin population would be significantly in decline. In fact it probably could be argued that most of the martins would be gone because the vast majority of martins are still nesting in round hole cavities, not srehs. So if starlings were destroying most of the round hole colonies in North America when the landlords were away at work or on vacation, then I posit that the martin population would be in a dramatic decline everywhere and huge numbers of colonies would be disappearing from Florida to Canada. Perhaps it is happening in some locations, but I do believe it is not in many others. I am seeing HUGE round hole colonies in many areas of the Deep South where starlings may be abundant.
In my area, Shreveport, Louisiana is infested with starlings and is infested with martins, too! There are many round hole martin colonies and I am sure starlings are a problem, but they are NOT destroying them all and martins continue to survive. There is a huge round hole martin colony located in downtown Shreveport, the heart of starling country, and the martins have been raising young there for around 50 years. Martins, starlings and sparrows all nest together. I don?t like this, but this scenario is common in many areas and martins have ?adapted? the best they can to it. The starlings no doubt cause problems, but there are around 100 martins nesting there and producing young every year. Starlings have not completely destroyed this colony and martins outnumber starlings and sparrows about 5 to 1. So, if starlings were destroying all the round hole colonies in Shreveport, surely in 50 years this old colony would be gone by now! But it is cranking out baby martins, baby starlings and baby sparrows.
So, when someone says, you will automatically have a starling problem when you use round holes and these starlings will exterminate all the martins and you will no longer have colony, please question that. Their analysis may be wrong. Every situation is different in my opinion and I have seen this from north Florida where I previously lived to northwest Louisiana. When I was traveling from north Florida to Louisiana, I saw numerous round hole martin colonies in northwest Florida, south Alabama, south Mississippi and throughout Louisiana. Of course, starlings may be troublesome for many of these colonies, but most were COVERED with purple martins! I saw several huge round hole natural gourd colonies that were INFESTED with martins, not starlings. Starlings are abundant in all these areas and if starlings were destroying all these round hole colonies, then I am assuming there would be few martins in these locations.
Brad, you are correct that my original post was NOT about the merits of round holes or srehs. I simply advised one of my Forum friends that my round hole WatersEdge suites would arrive soon. I had mentioned this in previous posts that I hope to get my houses soon. Another Forum friend was excited about it. This was strictly about sharing some information and not attempting to trigger a full blown debate on round holes vs. srehs! Unfortunately, that happened.
Good luck to both of you in 2006.
Steve
There is place for round holes and srehs and I have always said that. However, I have no need to convert all my successful round holes to srehs when I can easily control my almost nonexistent starling competition with trapping or shooting. Now, that is not to say a significant starling problem will not arise in 2006. I don?t know that. However, I will not arbitrarily change to crescents, excluders or WDCs and blindly ?follow the herd on this Forum?. I have never been one to jump on a bandwagon. I like to study things more closely and draw my own conclusions based on objective data that relates to my situation. Like I have said all along, folks should use the entrance hole that best meets the needs of martins in their colonies and not on what is happening in others many miles away.
Though starlings are abundant, that does not translate into an automatic starling problem for any martin colony. If that were true, then all these thousands of round hole colonies located throughout the USA and Canada would be destroyed and the purple martin population would be significantly in decline. In fact it probably could be argued that most of the martins would be gone because the vast majority of martins are still nesting in round hole cavities, not srehs. So if starlings were destroying most of the round hole colonies in North America when the landlords were away at work or on vacation, then I posit that the martin population would be in a dramatic decline everywhere and huge numbers of colonies would be disappearing from Florida to Canada. Perhaps it is happening in some locations, but I do believe it is not in many others. I am seeing HUGE round hole colonies in many areas of the Deep South where starlings may be abundant.
In my area, Shreveport, Louisiana is infested with starlings and is infested with martins, too! There are many round hole martin colonies and I am sure starlings are a problem, but they are NOT destroying them all and martins continue to survive. There is a huge round hole martin colony located in downtown Shreveport, the heart of starling country, and the martins have been raising young there for around 50 years. Martins, starlings and sparrows all nest together. I don?t like this, but this scenario is common in many areas and martins have ?adapted? the best they can to it. The starlings no doubt cause problems, but there are around 100 martins nesting there and producing young every year. Starlings have not completely destroyed this colony and martins outnumber starlings and sparrows about 5 to 1. So, if starlings were destroying all the round hole colonies in Shreveport, surely in 50 years this old colony would be gone by now! But it is cranking out baby martins, baby starlings and baby sparrows.
So, when someone says, you will automatically have a starling problem when you use round holes and these starlings will exterminate all the martins and you will no longer have colony, please question that. Their analysis may be wrong. Every situation is different in my opinion and I have seen this from north Florida where I previously lived to northwest Louisiana. When I was traveling from north Florida to Louisiana, I saw numerous round hole martin colonies in northwest Florida, south Alabama, south Mississippi and throughout Louisiana. Of course, starlings may be troublesome for many of these colonies, but most were COVERED with purple martins! I saw several huge round hole natural gourd colonies that were INFESTED with martins, not starlings. Starlings are abundant in all these areas and if starlings were destroying all these round hole colonies, then I am assuming there would be few martins in these locations.
Brad, you are correct that my original post was NOT about the merits of round holes or srehs. I simply advised one of my Forum friends that my round hole WatersEdge suites would arrive soon. I had mentioned this in previous posts that I hope to get my houses soon. Another Forum friend was excited about it. This was strictly about sharing some information and not attempting to trigger a full blown debate on round holes vs. srehs! Unfortunately, that happened.
Good luck to both of you in 2006.
Steve
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Steve, to compare a 50year old colony to a starling problem is quite an exageration, because there were no starlings here 50 years ago, and we do not live very far from Louisiana. We did not have any starlings here until about 10 or so years ago. I never saw a starling at my houses when I first started raising martins, but there sure was a sparrow problem from the very beginning.
The part that I want to concentrate on is that you may not have a problem if you shoot or trap them, if you are home most of the time to do that. Also, if you have 6x6 compartments, your starling problem will probably not be bad. And last, if you live in an area where a lot of starlings are nesting, then you definitely will have a starling problem
The worst thing to have is a house, especially a wooden house, with deep compartments, and a few starlings. It is unbelieveable how quickly the starling can go into a round hole and kill the martins. We say that we can shoot and trap them, but there will be those instances where they will kill martins when you are not watching. I know, as it happened to me, even though I thought that there was not a serious starling problem.
If you have gourds with round holes, and if the gourds are relatively small, then the starlings do not bother them very much, but you still take a big chance of having a starling kill a nest full of babies or eggs. I have seen it happen, both at my place, and at my neighbors place, and the starlings are not very thick here. I suppose that my statement is that you may be right most of the time, but it sure is a big price to pay for round holes when you are wrong, and if there are a few starlings around, you will someday pay that price. Here's hoping that you do not lose any of your colony to starlings. Good luck
The part that I want to concentrate on is that you may not have a problem if you shoot or trap them, if you are home most of the time to do that. Also, if you have 6x6 compartments, your starling problem will probably not be bad. And last, if you live in an area where a lot of starlings are nesting, then you definitely will have a starling problem
The worst thing to have is a house, especially a wooden house, with deep compartments, and a few starlings. It is unbelieveable how quickly the starling can go into a round hole and kill the martins. We say that we can shoot and trap them, but there will be those instances where they will kill martins when you are not watching. I know, as it happened to me, even though I thought that there was not a serious starling problem.
If you have gourds with round holes, and if the gourds are relatively small, then the starlings do not bother them very much, but you still take a big chance of having a starling kill a nest full of babies or eggs. I have seen it happen, both at my place, and at my neighbors place, and the starlings are not very thick here. I suppose that my statement is that you may be right most of the time, but it sure is a big price to pay for round holes when you are wrong, and if there are a few starlings around, you will someday pay that price. Here's hoping that you do not lose any of your colony to starlings. Good luck
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Emil,
I appreciate your comments and very much respect your observations. I consider you to be one of the best martin landlords in the country and place you in the same rank as Tony Frederickson, Victor Stoll, Thurman Seber, Bob Bozeman and many others that I greatly admire and respect. This group uses both srehs and round holes and they all work.
All I have been trying to impart is that starlings are not destroying all round hole colonies in North America and that the use of round holes does not automatically translate into a competition problem. There are thousands of successful round hole martin colonies in this country and not all are being overrun with starlings and being destroyed. I have seen too many of them to think otherwise. I constantly see inaccurate statements made on this Forum, such as the reply made to my posting which triggered this unfortunate feeding frenzy. I must disagree with these individuals who say that ALL round hole colonies will automatically have starling problems because I have seen many round hole colonies that do not. To let such inaccurate information be disseminated without some rebuttal is irresponsible and I will not do it. Now if I were to say that ALL round hole colonies will be starling free and there is NO need to use srehs, then I would be totally inaccurate and irresponsible and I hope you or someone else would challenge me! I do fully understand the dangers of starling competition for martins and have observed it in the past at my Grandparents? old colony site a few times. I have seen what starlings can do to cavity nesting birds. I know a lot about starling biology and behavior from personal observations.
While I believe there is place for both round holes and srehs in purple martin colony management, I still believe that folks should base their decision to use a specific entrance hole on what is happening at their site or general area and not on what is occurring hundreds of miles away. And folks can use a combination of entrance hole types and see what happens. However, there is nothing wrong with using round holes and there had been a creeping prejudice and bigotry insidiously appearing on this Forum against folks who use such entrances. I have documented in the past statements by such individuals. Fortunately, this is not as blatant as it was in the past and I rarely see such statements anymore. Perhaps my responses to them have had some positive impact!
Here is a fact sheet on starlings that mentions something about the spread of starlings in North America. It does say large numbers of starlings were in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in 1938, so starlings have been in southern Louisiana a long time. Whether this can relate to Texas, I don?t know. I would defer to you in that respect. Also, I don?t know if starlings made it to my current area near Shreveport around that time or if their appearance was much later. Furthermore, just because large numbers of starlings were in the area, that does not mean they were actively taking over martin colonies.
http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_factsheet.php?toc_id=212
Again, I appreciate your comments. This will be my last reply relative to the sreh vs. round hole debate for this particular posting. My posting was about natural gourd attributes and not the specific entrance hole used.
Keep raising lots of martins!
Steve
I appreciate your comments and very much respect your observations. I consider you to be one of the best martin landlords in the country and place you in the same rank as Tony Frederickson, Victor Stoll, Thurman Seber, Bob Bozeman and many others that I greatly admire and respect. This group uses both srehs and round holes and they all work.
All I have been trying to impart is that starlings are not destroying all round hole colonies in North America and that the use of round holes does not automatically translate into a competition problem. There are thousands of successful round hole martin colonies in this country and not all are being overrun with starlings and being destroyed. I have seen too many of them to think otherwise. I constantly see inaccurate statements made on this Forum, such as the reply made to my posting which triggered this unfortunate feeding frenzy. I must disagree with these individuals who say that ALL round hole colonies will automatically have starling problems because I have seen many round hole colonies that do not. To let such inaccurate information be disseminated without some rebuttal is irresponsible and I will not do it. Now if I were to say that ALL round hole colonies will be starling free and there is NO need to use srehs, then I would be totally inaccurate and irresponsible and I hope you or someone else would challenge me! I do fully understand the dangers of starling competition for martins and have observed it in the past at my Grandparents? old colony site a few times. I have seen what starlings can do to cavity nesting birds. I know a lot about starling biology and behavior from personal observations.
While I believe there is place for both round holes and srehs in purple martin colony management, I still believe that folks should base their decision to use a specific entrance hole on what is happening at their site or general area and not on what is occurring hundreds of miles away. And folks can use a combination of entrance hole types and see what happens. However, there is nothing wrong with using round holes and there had been a creeping prejudice and bigotry insidiously appearing on this Forum against folks who use such entrances. I have documented in the past statements by such individuals. Fortunately, this is not as blatant as it was in the past and I rarely see such statements anymore. Perhaps my responses to them have had some positive impact!
Here is a fact sheet on starlings that mentions something about the spread of starlings in North America. It does say large numbers of starlings were in Baton Rouge, Louisiana in 1938, so starlings have been in southern Louisiana a long time. Whether this can relate to Texas, I don?t know. I would defer to you in that respect. Also, I don?t know if starlings made it to my current area near Shreveport around that time or if their appearance was much later. Furthermore, just because large numbers of starlings were in the area, that does not mean they were actively taking over martin colonies.
http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_factsheet.php?toc_id=212
Again, I appreciate your comments. This will be my last reply relative to the sreh vs. round hole debate for this particular posting. My posting was about natural gourd attributes and not the specific entrance hole used.
Keep raising lots of martins!
Steve
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Guest
Steve,
I sure didn't mean to come across as "advising" you on round vs SREH for your colony. I aplogize if I did........sorta like me advising Bill Gates on writing software! Ha! Excuse my writing skills as I was actually trying to convey that offering a few round holes may have helped me start a colony......can't prove that.......but I think it helped.
Sometimes I wonder if the presence of starlings may hurt a startup colony more than an established colony. Don't know the answer to that and, just like you mentioned above, this generalization wouldn't apply everywhere. For instance, your colony, which was started near an established colony, was incredibly successful last year.
Back to your original subject, I'm still trying to snoop out 4 or 5 natural gourds as I think your points about their appeal are very good ones.
I sure didn't mean to come across as "advising" you on round vs SREH for your colony. I aplogize if I did........sorta like me advising Bill Gates on writing software! Ha! Excuse my writing skills as I was actually trying to convey that offering a few round holes may have helped me start a colony......can't prove that.......but I think it helped.
Sometimes I wonder if the presence of starlings may hurt a startup colony more than an established colony. Don't know the answer to that and, just like you mentioned above, this generalization wouldn't apply everywhere. For instance, your colony, which was started near an established colony, was incredibly successful last year.
Back to your original subject, I'm still trying to snoop out 4 or 5 natural gourds as I think your points about their appeal are very good ones.
Steve, it was not my intent to get yours or anyone elses dander up about SREH or Round holes. I never said SREH VERSUS Round holes in my post, or at least I don't think I did. I think I said SREH OR Round holes. I was merely stating my opinion on the subject the same as you did whether in this thread or in another. It was not my intent to come across as prejudiced for SREH, or with an abrasive attitude. It was my intent to express my opinion on why I need, and use SREH. What better time than the off season than to calmly kick around subjects like this one?? It makes no difference to me if you or anyone else uses round holes. What you do at your colony is your business the same as mine is at mine. I know there are colonies that are successful using round holes. You and Mike "Bluesman" Brown are two landlords who have large successful colonies using them. I have seen, same as you, where larger round hole colonies have little Starling pressure. At one local round hole colony I am very familiar with, the landlord only loses 2 to 3 nesting females, out of his 100 plus pair, each year to Starling attacks, even though the Starling population is high enough in the area to take over all his gourds if they chose to. As Emil said, and we all know, it only takes a few seconds to lose a female, or several nestlings to a Starling attack. From what I have seen, a volume of Martins actually bullies the Starlings that nest at larger Martin colonies. The Starlings at his site don't boss the gourd racks the way they would at a start up colony. I have seen that too. From what I have observed, an unestablished site is much more at risk of having severe Starling problems than a large and/or established site. As you know, a male Starling will sometimes claim and defend an entire gourd rack the same as a ASY male Martin will. Like I said, I am not trying to change your mind or push my opinion on anyone. It's the off season and many new, hopeful landlords are reading info on this website. I just wanted to express my thoughts on, and my reasons for using SREH, same as you did on using round holes. I guess I should have started a new thread, instead of replying to an off topic response on this thread. I apologize for that.
Brad Biddle
Brad Biddle
High quality plastic gourds with porched, tunnelled SREH are Martin magnets.
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Guest
John, If you don't mind, let me know how the gourds turn out. I've considered ordering from the PMCA and noticed 6 gourds is just a little more expensive than 4.
I have heard there is a gourd farm in soutwest Missouri. If I can find wher it's at, I may visit them and hand pick a few gourds (if they have gourds suitable for martins).
I have heard there is a gourd farm in soutwest Missouri. If I can find wher it's at, I may visit them and hand pick a few gourds (if they have gourds suitable for martins).
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
John, it is difficult to mess up a gourd to the point that you cannot use it. I have often spliced in a part of the hole that I cut out to make some other part fit. The thing to make splicing a gourd work is to make a splice, let it sit until it hardens and holds tightly, and then proceed. If you get in a hurry, things don't seem to work out right. I just take my time, and work in steps.
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In all honesty. I could take a gourd that is borken in many parts, splice it back together, and make a perfectly usable gourd out of it. There may be some concerns on your part, but believe me, it is very easy to work on a gourd and make everything come out just right!. I felt just like you do on the first few gourds, but they truly are very forgiving if you make a mistake
I know that you will enjoy working on them! Best of luck
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In all honesty. I could take a gourd that is borken in many parts, splice it back together, and make a perfectly usable gourd out of it. There may be some concerns on your part, but believe me, it is very easy to work on a gourd and make everything come out just right!. I felt just like you do on the first few gourds, but they truly are very forgiving if you make a mistake
I know that you will enjoy working on them! Best of luck
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Hey John/Hogwild/Emil,
John, I am glad you are going to try some natural gourds! Guys, I have just finished putting my S & K access doors on 24 using Lexel adhesive. Now I will attach the rain canopies. Next, will be painting. Nearly all these are the traditional gourds with the holes cut on the fronts. It is difficult to find suitable candidates for the vertically/horizontally deep ones. Sometimes you can hang the gourd in a slanted position or drill the entrance near the neck area and create such cavities. The ?penguin? gourd is a great one if you can find it for horizontal gourds. This gourd is elongated to over 12 inches and varies in diameter from about 7 to 9 inches in diameter. What you are looking for is the horizontal length more than a round large girth. I believe martins may prefer such cavities because their nest site will be FAR AWAY from the entrance and often out of view from the outside.
I had ordered some natural gourds from the PMCA way back in 1991 or 92 I believe. Guess what, most of these gourds are still working! I did soak them in Thompson?s WaterSeal and let them dry for about two months before painting. I also take them down every season and clean out my old pre-built nests. Most of these gourds have been transformed into the funnel types, including ones with PVC couplers attached to the necks to create the entrance hole.
Emil gives you good advice about natural gourds. You can piece them together with adhesive such as Lexel or PPL. To ?fill? cracks or reinforce the lower lip area around the entrance hole which can become weakened from constant use by the martins, I have even used good old duct tape a few times and painted it white and it would hold up for at least one season! If you use plastic plates on the gourd fronts to create tunnels or perhaps srehs, then this will reinforce the gourd substrate.
Hogwild, I order most of my natural gourds from a farm in Mississippi. Though nearly all the gourds I get are the traditional ones and don?t make good candidates for vertically/horizontally deep cavities, my last order of 24 were mainly hard shelled and between 10 and 11 inches in diameter. You want to get thick and hard shelled gourds and I always request that when I buy from a supplier off the Internet. That is no guarantee you will get that! Of course, the best way to get gourds unless you grow your own is to visit the farm and pick them out. Just in case you may be interested in these gourds, I will send you a private message with the website link. This supplier does list ?penguin? gourds but I am not sure if they are large enough or if there are enough available. Also this supplier has a huge unpainted natural gourd martin colony and so they are interested in martins.
Just one point of reference?when you order natural gourds, you may find some of them cracked because of ?rough? handling during shipment. On my last order of 24, two were cracked, but my supplier seems to know this will happen and she included two ?freebies? just in case! Worked out fine.
I hope both of you have great success with natural gourds. Now, you may just become hardcore natural gourd fans and decide to go all natural in the future. Though I still have plastic SuperGourds and they are good surrogates for the real thing, I find myself every year wanting to naturalize my entire gourd setup. But the largely maintenance free attributes of plastic gourds is a strong incentive to continue using them.
Please keep the Forum posted on the results of your use of natural gourds.
Steve
John, I am glad you are going to try some natural gourds! Guys, I have just finished putting my S & K access doors on 24 using Lexel adhesive. Now I will attach the rain canopies. Next, will be painting. Nearly all these are the traditional gourds with the holes cut on the fronts. It is difficult to find suitable candidates for the vertically/horizontally deep ones. Sometimes you can hang the gourd in a slanted position or drill the entrance near the neck area and create such cavities. The ?penguin? gourd is a great one if you can find it for horizontal gourds. This gourd is elongated to over 12 inches and varies in diameter from about 7 to 9 inches in diameter. What you are looking for is the horizontal length more than a round large girth. I believe martins may prefer such cavities because their nest site will be FAR AWAY from the entrance and often out of view from the outside.
I had ordered some natural gourds from the PMCA way back in 1991 or 92 I believe. Guess what, most of these gourds are still working! I did soak them in Thompson?s WaterSeal and let them dry for about two months before painting. I also take them down every season and clean out my old pre-built nests. Most of these gourds have been transformed into the funnel types, including ones with PVC couplers attached to the necks to create the entrance hole.
Emil gives you good advice about natural gourds. You can piece them together with adhesive such as Lexel or PPL. To ?fill? cracks or reinforce the lower lip area around the entrance hole which can become weakened from constant use by the martins, I have even used good old duct tape a few times and painted it white and it would hold up for at least one season! If you use plastic plates on the gourd fronts to create tunnels or perhaps srehs, then this will reinforce the gourd substrate.
Hogwild, I order most of my natural gourds from a farm in Mississippi. Though nearly all the gourds I get are the traditional ones and don?t make good candidates for vertically/horizontally deep cavities, my last order of 24 were mainly hard shelled and between 10 and 11 inches in diameter. You want to get thick and hard shelled gourds and I always request that when I buy from a supplier off the Internet. That is no guarantee you will get that! Of course, the best way to get gourds unless you grow your own is to visit the farm and pick them out. Just in case you may be interested in these gourds, I will send you a private message with the website link. This supplier does list ?penguin? gourds but I am not sure if they are large enough or if there are enough available. Also this supplier has a huge unpainted natural gourd martin colony and so they are interested in martins.
Just one point of reference?when you order natural gourds, you may find some of them cracked because of ?rough? handling during shipment. On my last order of 24, two were cracked, but my supplier seems to know this will happen and she included two ?freebies? just in case! Worked out fine.
I hope both of you have great success with natural gourds. Now, you may just become hardcore natural gourd fans and decide to go all natural in the future. Though I still have plastic SuperGourds and they are good surrogates for the real thing, I find myself every year wanting to naturalize my entire gourd setup. But the largely maintenance free attributes of plastic gourds is a strong incentive to continue using them.
Please keep the Forum posted on the results of your use of natural gourds.
Steve
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eyeamtheman
- Posts: 633
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:21 pm
- Location: Quitman, La
- Martin Colony History: Super colony
I agree that since the sreh has developed into a tremendously helpful product, landlords can benefit from them IF they have a starling problem. I too have all round holes, and do not have a starling problem or any sparrows. However, I am prepared if either species shows up, as I can shoot a gun in my area, and if the problem gets too bad, I already have sreh's so I can convert if need be.....
Now, regarding the origin of this post, I also like the watersedge setup, and have considered using it when I expand. I currently am using a T14 I built, and a gourd rack with a combination of Supergourds and naturals. All with round holes.
Also, I would like to inquire as to why MY name was not mentioned as comparable to Tony, Thurman, and Victor?????? ( snicker )
Now, regarding the origin of this post, I also like the watersedge setup, and have considered using it when I expand. I currently am using a T14 I built, and a gourd rack with a combination of Supergourds and naturals. All with round holes.
Also, I would like to inquire as to why MY name was not mentioned as comparable to Tony, Thurman, and Victor?????? ( snicker )
Johnny
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Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
Johnny,
Now buddy, you are in a category of your own! I would have to start a brand new thread to appropriately address your rank in the purple martin hierarchy of supreme landlords as no one else is comparable! I am now bowing down in total deference! Ha!
In January, I am still coming to visit! I may even try to get that rascal, TruckerBob to go with me!
I am really looking forward to seeing how your martin colony will react to the new landscape surrounding your yard. The removal of all those trees to create a more open environment should really increase your chances to expand the number of martins nesting in 2006.
When I get all my housing up, I want you to make one of your treks over to visit. Bob will be working on his colony set-up too and I believe he will be making some changes relative to the number of cavities and the height of his current housing. You may remember on March 31, 2005 we had a terrible storm hit which may have been a small tornado. This storm bent some of Bob?s schedule 40 water pipe poles and bent both my Lone Star square poles. The excellent PMCA tempered aluminum square poles withstood the winds though one of the iron ground sockets bent.
When I my WatersEdge suites arrive and I erect them on the PMCA multi-purpose pole, I hope to take some pictures and post them on the Forum. I really like the WatersEdge suite design, particularly the double nesting chamber concept.
Well, I hope deer hunting season is winding down for you and you can start devoting more time to the martin stuff.
See you later.
Steve
Now buddy, you are in a category of your own! I would have to start a brand new thread to appropriately address your rank in the purple martin hierarchy of supreme landlords as no one else is comparable! I am now bowing down in total deference! Ha!
In January, I am still coming to visit! I may even try to get that rascal, TruckerBob to go with me!
I am really looking forward to seeing how your martin colony will react to the new landscape surrounding your yard. The removal of all those trees to create a more open environment should really increase your chances to expand the number of martins nesting in 2006.
When I get all my housing up, I want you to make one of your treks over to visit. Bob will be working on his colony set-up too and I believe he will be making some changes relative to the number of cavities and the height of his current housing. You may remember on March 31, 2005 we had a terrible storm hit which may have been a small tornado. This storm bent some of Bob?s schedule 40 water pipe poles and bent both my Lone Star square poles. The excellent PMCA tempered aluminum square poles withstood the winds though one of the iron ground sockets bent.
When I my WatersEdge suites arrive and I erect them on the PMCA multi-purpose pole, I hope to take some pictures and post them on the Forum. I really like the WatersEdge suite design, particularly the double nesting chamber concept.
Well, I hope deer hunting season is winding down for you and you can start devoting more time to the martin stuff.
See you later.
Steve
-
Steve Kroenke
- Posts: 4342
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Logansport
John,
By traditional gourds, I mean the standard gourd that you cut the hole on the front. Yes, like a SuperGourd.
I have never used copper sulfate. The copper sulfate helps preserve the gourds and protects them from rotting. Yes, it is a good idea to soak the gourds. Here is a link about copper sulfate from the PMCA webpage:
http://www.purplemartin.org/inst/InstCUSO4.html
I soak my natural gourds in Thompson?s WaterSeal and wait about a month before painting them. I let the gourds air and dry out completely. This does a good job of preserving the gourds and some of mine are still in good shape after more than 10 years. I usually soak mine in September or October, paint them sometime in November or December, and have them up by Mid-January or early February.
Of course, you will need access doors and rain canopies if you plan to install these to the gourds. I really like the S & K access doors and they have worked perfectly for my gourds. I even bought aluminum rain canopies from the PMCA and they are working great on my gourds. I am using Lexel adhesive this year to attach the access doors and canopies. It is working beautifully. You can also other adhesives, particularly PL or silicone.
Here is a link from the PMCA webpage about adding canopies/access doors:
http://www.purplemartin.org/update/AddingAccess.html
I use # 10 solid plastic coated copper wire for hanging the gourds. It is sometimes hard to find this number. I have used thinner # 12 wire, but it will more easily break or twist when the gourds swing in the wind and the wire moves back and forth. The # 12 is more easy to bend. You can have your gourds swing front to back or side to side depending on how you hang them. On my PMCA Deluxe racks my gourds swing front to back and do the same on my Lone Stars. You don't want your gourds to twist all around.
Before painting the gourds, you will need to lightly sand them to remove the loose external membrane and any dirt. Do not sand too deeply and remove the hard shell membrane. I have done that before with my palm hand sander and the sanded area was soft afterwards because I accidentally removed the hard outer surface.
You can find a lot of information about the preparing natural gourds on the PMCA webpage. Just do search on natural gourds. Here is the link to the PMCA webpage:
http://www.purplemartin.org/
Good luck.
Steve
By traditional gourds, I mean the standard gourd that you cut the hole on the front. Yes, like a SuperGourd.
I have never used copper sulfate. The copper sulfate helps preserve the gourds and protects them from rotting. Yes, it is a good idea to soak the gourds. Here is a link about copper sulfate from the PMCA webpage:
http://www.purplemartin.org/inst/InstCUSO4.html
I soak my natural gourds in Thompson?s WaterSeal and wait about a month before painting them. I let the gourds air and dry out completely. This does a good job of preserving the gourds and some of mine are still in good shape after more than 10 years. I usually soak mine in September or October, paint them sometime in November or December, and have them up by Mid-January or early February.
Of course, you will need access doors and rain canopies if you plan to install these to the gourds. I really like the S & K access doors and they have worked perfectly for my gourds. I even bought aluminum rain canopies from the PMCA and they are working great on my gourds. I am using Lexel adhesive this year to attach the access doors and canopies. It is working beautifully. You can also other adhesives, particularly PL or silicone.
Here is a link from the PMCA webpage about adding canopies/access doors:
http://www.purplemartin.org/update/AddingAccess.html
I use # 10 solid plastic coated copper wire for hanging the gourds. It is sometimes hard to find this number. I have used thinner # 12 wire, but it will more easily break or twist when the gourds swing in the wind and the wire moves back and forth. The # 12 is more easy to bend. You can have your gourds swing front to back or side to side depending on how you hang them. On my PMCA Deluxe racks my gourds swing front to back and do the same on my Lone Stars. You don't want your gourds to twist all around.
Before painting the gourds, you will need to lightly sand them to remove the loose external membrane and any dirt. Do not sand too deeply and remove the hard shell membrane. I have done that before with my palm hand sander and the sanded area was soft afterwards because I accidentally removed the hard outer surface.
You can find a lot of information about the preparing natural gourds on the PMCA webpage. Just do search on natural gourds. Here is the link to the PMCA webpage:
http://www.purplemartin.org/
Good luck.
Steve