Curious - Are any houses or gourds ever at capacity?

[robndebby]

Just curious about this. We have 56 nesting holes and the holes were not filled up. Still had quite a few empty. Each year for some dumb reason we add more, maybe hoping to get full capacity??? I dunno! Does anyone ever have ALL their nests occupied? I saw in an issue of Birds & Blooms some time ago where one man had Martin houses mounted on an old television station antenna. Went WAY up in the sky. I'd like to know what he does if any fall out or he has an infestation of mites, or even what he does for predators. I'll try to locate that issue and see just how tall it was and post it.

So sad Martins are gone.

[Dale Davis]

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: Curious - Are any houses or gourds ever at capacity?
Just curious about this. We have 56 nesting holes and the holes were not filled up. Still had quite a few empty. Each year for some dumb reason we add more, maybe hoping to get full capacity??? I dunno! Does anyone ever have ALL their nests occupied? I saw in an issue of Birds & Blooms some time ago where one man had Martin houses mounted on an old television station antenna. Went WAY up in the sky. I'd like to know what he does if any fall out or he has an infestation of mites, or even what he does for predators. I'll try to locate that issue and see just how tall it was and post it.robndebby, I have that same issue of Birds & Bloom you are referring to. Like you, I don't see any way a setup like that could be monitored with any accuracy.

robndebby,
I have that same issue of Birds & Bloom here. Like you, I don't see how a setup such as this could be monitored with any accuracy.

As far as 100% occupancy, I have read from time to time where one of the landlords do experience this. When it comes to martin houses I believe the average is about 50% occupancy where I believe gourd racks are more likely to experience 100%.[/url][/list][/quote]

[Guest]

Dale,

I had full occupancy by martins in the 24 total nesting cavities at my site this year. It has 3 Trio TG-12s modified to larger compartments, with 2 plastic gourds below each.

Tony

[Dale Davis]

Congratulations Tony, That is what I was telling robndebby that some landlords do experience the 100% occupancy.. You are one of them.

Hope you have continued success in 2006.

[Guest]

One of the big reasons for partial occupancy is male dominance. T14's are a 'poor' design from that perspective. Houses like the Northstar were designed with that problem in mind - you will find frequent claims of no-vacancy. Gourds reduce this problem to a large extent.


Another important factor is the age of the colony - the older the higher the rate (I also noticed that it is more peaceful). My neighbour has a wooden 'slum' house 50 yards from my housing (12 6x6 compartments) it is 100% full every year (if I clean out the sparrow nests that is); it has been there for 30+ years.

[Dale Davis]

Hi Stan,
I fully agree with what you said. The older the colony the more likely it will experience the 100% occupancy.

Too bad that as you stated that some of the slum housing are the ones that experience it.

Good luck to you in 2006 Stan.

Dale

[1 Ron Vasser]

Hi Guys...I think location may play a big part in occupancy levels and not sure about the T-14 being a poor design. These are the stats for my 2 year colony.

Martin stats
2004 First Year Housing:
1 T-14 and 4 Big Bo gourds
8 nests with 31 fledges

2005 Housing:
2 T-14s with 8 Big Bo Gourds under
1 gourd rack with 8 Big Bo gourds
44 cavities all crescent an ob-round
43 nests with 179 fledges
194 eggs
1 baby about 1 week old found dead on the ground
Nest had 2 to 7 babies
About 2/3 were ASY.

[Dale Davis]

Ron, Those numbers are nothing short of fantastic!

Congrats on your success.

Dale

[CUL Lou~Mich]

I have to wonder if a "Slum landlord" would actually have 100% Purple Martin occupancy, or if part of that 100% is actually EHS, and EUST. If they are, then it is NOT 100% PM, therefore the 100% would NOT apply. If it is in fact 100% PM, then I don't see how anyone could call that landlord a "Slum landlord". CUL Lou

[RC Moser]

Well, IMO I really don't want 100% if so that's means I wasn't offering enough cavities. I think anybody that has PM's are successful regardless of a full house. IMO a full house induces fighting among the clam.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I have not had 100% occupancy in over 35 years of raising martins, but I have been very close. If you have a wide open site, if martins are plentiful, and if you have no hawks or owls, you can get very near full occupancy. I usually consider about 95% as being full..Some pairs always claim 2 cavities, maybe even 3 or 4 cavities.

[Laverne]

...and people will tell you they have 100% occupancy when they really don't.

Dear Robndebby. I believe honesty is the best policy and I have never had 100% occupancy in my colony. I have had 100% occupancy on a single gourd rack - but, not throughout the entire colony. We did very well this year with 43 of 48 gourds producing fledglings. I have those 48 gourds up on 5 poles. One rack of 8 gourds was at 100% again this season. The rest of them all had at least one vacancy.

I find that it is the older veteran ASYs who will claim and defend more than one cavity for their own use. They almost always produce the biggest clutches and successfully fledge the largest number and have the best survival rate right up until the day they finally leave my colony. PMs don't live 20 years. You don't have to have a 20 year old site to have veteran ASYs. 3rd and 4th year of a colony will begin to exhibit a change in experienced birds. It's interesting to watch and feels good to know that you help them get there every year. I believe it is very important to protect your older "veteran" ASYs. They come back earlier and are at the greatest risk of starvation due to freezing temperatures in the early spring. As your colony ages, please prepare for life threatening weather and plan for supplemental feeding of these valuable ASYs. They will reward your efforts with great success in the form of fledgling Purple Martins.

Please be aware that it is the SY PMs that have the greatest failure rate. As your colony ages, the number of experienced ASY birds climbs until you may have several seasons with "any" SYs. Then something happens and a lot of the ASYs don't come back - leaving more room for the SYs once again...

[Bob Burkard]

This is my third year with PMs in SE Pennsylvania. I have a T-14 with 4 gourds. This year 14 pairs: (3 ASY and 11 SY). I am debating on whether to add a second house for next year. For overall colony health and fledgling success rate, does it make any difference as to offer more cavities or maintain a smaller stable colony?

Bob Burkard

[Guest]

Hi Guys...I think location may play a big part in occupancy levels and not sure about the T-14 being a poor design.

I think Stan was referring to the T-14 being a poor design with regard to porch dominance.....not other attributes. I don't have a T-14 but have read posts where males dominate an entire column of nests preventing other martins from using those nests. In some colonies it does not appear to be as big a problem.

I'm guessing it would be easier to get 100% occupancy in a house design with one entry per side of a house on each level......and with entries staggered from level to level to space entries as far apart as possible. Add a deep, full porch around the house with porch dividers and you've done about all you can do with a house. Thoughts?

[robndebby]

All this info is really interesting. This year we took down an old Heath round house (one we started with 14 years ago) and put up 8 gourds instead, at the same location where we took down the house. Of the 8 gourds, only 3 were occupied. We had much more nesting in the houses this year than ever. Yet most everyone seems to tell me they get more success with gourds. Maybe next year there will be more coming along to occupy them.

Thanks for all the info.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

robndebby, what you witnessed with the gourds is true any time that you change the housing. They nearly refuse to use any new housing, but they will eventually go there. I often wonder why they act like that, I suppose that it is loyalty to the old housing.

What I noticed at my place is that they will use a house, but they usually choose the gourds about 10 to 1.

[Laverne]

My impression (determined by my colony's behavior) is that the birds are initially attracted to what worked for them last season. But, when I added a rack of natural gourds (over rather than under) an existing house, they literally fought over the gourds. When I hung natural gourds under my existing housing, the gourds were ignored.

As for my opinion of the T-14: I think it is a fabulous house. I think the design is very good. There is no shared porching and the only problem I ever had was ASY dominance. One male claimed an entire "column" of four cavities - on the other three sides, there were two pair per column. This was during my heavy ASY concentration, and there is no denying ASY domination of more than one cavity. Perhaps SYs would have filled every cavity - but, that didn't happen in my colony.

I am still experiencing ASY dominance of multiple cavities with gourds. I honestly believe this is just in the nature of the Purple Martin and will always factor into whatever housing you offer.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Laverne, the height of the housing is important. Most martins choose the highest gourds first. The bottom ones are the last to be occupied.

[Guest]

I think T14's are wonderful; I have 3 installed and am in the process of building 5 more for next season. Unfortunately the design does absolutely nothing to prevent porch dominance - actually it encourages it. It would appear that SY males are usually the preferred object of attacks - after a few years most of the colony should be ASY and male dominance is reduced accordingly.

I have to wonder if a "Slum landlord" would actually have 100% Purple Martin occupancy, or if part of that 100% is actually EHS, and EUST. If they are, then it is NOT 100% PM, therefore the 100% would NOT apply. If it is in fact 100% PM, then I don't see how anyone could call that landlord a "Slum landlord". CUL Lou

In this case there was no active landlord - just a semi-abondoned wooden house being shared by martins and sparrows. My neighbours wife was trying to persuade him to take the house down ; she was complaining about the noise - I thing she was sick of an eyesore. The house was leaning badly and hadn't seen a coat of paint in at least 5 years. I persuaded the neighbour to let me fix it up . Over the last 2 years I have eliminated all Hosps and acheived 100% occupancy. The house is still what I consider SLUM ; how else could one describe a house that has never (30 years plus) had the old nest cleaned out?
My ultimate goal is to persuade the neighbour, or rather his wife, to change the house for a T14 or a Trendsetter/Northstar (no male dominance ).

[Guest]

robndebby,

Achieving and reporting 100% occupancy might not be something to strive for. If you report that you achieved it, it could be suggested that this just means that you should offer more nesting cavities. If you report 100% occupancy, it could be suggested that your results might be, shall we say, not 100% accurate.

Tony