Follow up to my “super mites” post.. not good

[Martintown33]

Hi all . Thanks for the replies. Flyin .. I’m using the new Sevin dust and liquid. It’s .1% Bifenthrin. Birdiegirl, the new Sevin is .1% Bifenthrin , not 1%… and after 30 days of treating that nest, there must be at least 7 tsp of new Sevin and poultry dust in that nest along with day after day of liquid Sevin wiping the gourd walls and sprayed on the outside, and it’s still full of mites. Thomabear, , yes tempo dust is 1% cyfluthrin .. but is cyfluthrin the same or different strength, by volume , as Bifenthrin? In other words is1% cyfluthrin the same or stronger than .1% Bifenthrin?
Rob

[MY FYN 79]

I mentioned a product some time back, but I don’t think it got a lot of attention due to carbaryl being available at the time.

We have chickens and we let them out to free range, and they pick up mites. The most effective solution we’ve ever used for the mites is elector psp. It is a liquid so not perfectly ideal, but you spray it directly onto the chickens and there is no egg withdrawal period like other insecticides.

It’s in the spinosyn family, which ends up being fermented natural stuff. It smells like earthy grass. The drawback is that it’s very expensive, but being so concentrated the bottle will last for multiple years. That would be great if someone was willing to do some research on this material. If it would work, our big happy family here could share a bottle and we could mail eye droppers of it all over the US. I’ll even coordinate.

Now, I understand a chickens butt is a much larger target to hit than a purple martin, so spraying directly onto martins is out. But I know how strong this stuff is, and I believe it would be a fantastic thing to use on the outside of gourds and a few spritzes in the nest would probably do wonders.

Any thoughts?

[Martintown33]

Count me in. I’m willing to try anything at this point!
Rob

[MY FYN 79]

To be clear, I’m not suggesting we move on this right away. I’m hoping someone far smarter than me could do some research on the Spinosyn/Spinosad family and let us know their thoughts. I see there are powder versions of this too, but I only have experience with the liquid elector psp. Trying to help find a solution, but the last thing I want to do is suggest using this if it’s a bad idea.

[Thomabear]

Spinosad definitely seems like something worth trying.

Ok this is going to sound crazy but after researching the last couple of days I ran across the use of alum as a garden insecticide. It appears to work in gardens through both ingestion and contact. While mites won’t ingest it they would definitely come in contact with it in powder form placed under the nest. The idea would be to dehydrate them through contact and absorption which alum quickly does.

Read here
https://gardenerguidebook.com/use-this- ... t-control/

[Martintown33]

Hi thomabear..alum works in the same way as diatomaceous earth.. it clings to the insect and dries them up from the outside in.. but DE is dangerous for Martin compartments because it is easily airborne and it’s sharp minuscule edges of each dust particle cause respiratory issues.. I wonder if alum will have the same effect?
… the last 2 fledglings in the cursed mite infested gourd fledged this morning.. thank God.. I just checked the gourd and after over a month of treating it , it unexplainably STILL had lots of mites all over the outside and inside.. I can not understand how this is possible, unless the mites have developed a big resistance … anyway, I broke out the big guns now that they have fledged.. I sprayed the outside with raid roach, wasp and ant killer.. it DESTROYED the mites crawling on the outside, instantly.. they usually swim around in the liquid sevin and enjoy it.. but the raid kill them instantly.. then used bird safe avian insect liquidator and sprayed the nest, walls and ceiling, until they were totally wet with the stuff…next season, I will be plugging entrances and vent holes and spraying the outside of all gourds with raid, periodically ..it is a mite KILLER, I just found out..I still don’t know what can work on the inside without carbaryl… maybe this gourd is just cursed! I’m going to burn it at the end of the season and never use it again!
Rob

[Thomas Maddox]

At least you got them through this! Hopefully, we'll discover a new product that's safe and effective!

[Martintown33]

Agree thomabear….I’m glad they made it.. I can’t imagine how bad this mite infestation would have been without the daily treatments.., I’m sure the martins would have either continuously jumped out early or been killed by that number of mites. The daily treatments were just enough to keep the mite numbers manageable.. but this is not tenable going forward… luckily the infestation was limited to 4 gourds.. if it would have spread further, my martins and me would have been in deep trouble. To tell you the truth , I’m a little fearful of what next season will bring, without the use of carbaryl..
Rob

[Thomabear]

Rob, the difference I found between alum and DE is that the DE is not water soluble and is permanently abrasive with a very low density that causes it to easily become airborne. The alum on the other hand has a higher density (not easily airborne) not abrasive and is water soluble which allows it to dissolve itself if inhaled or ingested. Still, Like the use of Carbaryl started out, it begins as an experiment. Not sure if it will work or not but in theory it sounds like it's definately worth a shot. The ability to monitor things with the cam helps. Like you said, one thing is a fact, and that is the reality that Carbaryl is gone from the shelves. Even though I have some Carbaryl left I plan to research and test other safe options in preparation for that day when I treat with Carbaryl and discover its shelf life has run out and mites are laughing at it. Would rather have something tested to immediately fall back on than to fight the situation with no previous research or data as to what may work. Basically, a proactive rather than reactive approach. I feel like the time is now to start looking for solutions as the clock is quickly running out on Carbaryl.

[Martintown33]

Agree Thomabear… definitely better to be proactive. Good to know about the alum.. But unfortunately, I tried a lot of what’s out there. Permetthrin, dust and liquid, Bifenthrin , dust and liquid. There are others but they’re all mostly in the same chemical family. I don’t see anything knew coming out that will be effective, because the EPA is only allowing this “ safe” stuff to be produced. But as I said before, the safe stuff is also safe for mites.
I personally called the manager of Soutgern Ag company. Had a 20 minute conversation with him., The last company that was still producing carbaryl dust. He told me they can’t get the chemical anymore to produce the product. He said there are people and stores all over the country calling him clamoring to get the carbaryl dust. The reason is obvious. The new stuff doesn’t have nearly the effectiveness of carbaryl and everybody knows it.
Rob

[Thomabear]

I hear ya brother... I think the Permethrins and Bifenthrin being slow acting residual insecticides makes it difficult to break the life cycle. Pyrethrins on the other hand is fast acting like Carbaryl, but they have it so diluted down to directly dust chickens that its basically useless. I wonder if adding liquid pyrethrins to the dry mix by percentage and volume to increase the concentration followed by re-drying and re-powderizing it may work? I understand I would have to buy my wife a new coffee grinder but they are only about 20 bucks.

[C.C.Martins]

If it weren't so dang dangerous, id make a trip to Mexico. Sure they have some. Take an hour....

[Martintown33]

I hear ya Thomabear and Tom! I think I’m
Going to make a trip to a “do it yourself” pest control center. They sell professional strength products , that I can possibly dilute myself. Will consult with them.. tell them my circumstance, and ask what is the best way to proceed to kill these mites, safely as possible. Also, I’m researching for anything that can kill mite eggs. Nothing really out there. Crap!
Rob

[Martintown33]

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Hey guys.. you won’t believe this. I hopped on Amazon and just for the hell of it, I typed carbaryl 5% dust in the search box.. and guess what came up?!! Southern ag 5% carbaryl dust !!! I ordered 2 bottles. Check attached photo. I guess some units must have become available from somewhere.. If you read this get to Amazon and get sone before they sell out. I’m sure there won’t be many units for sale! Good luck! What a stroke of luck!

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Rob

[Thomabear]

Good find Rob... Same thing I purchased last June. I figured it would have been sold out by now.

[Martintown33]

Thomabear. Smart move on your part to get some.. When I talked to the manager at southern ag, he told me the epa is cutting out carbaryl, but there is still some of the chemical out there, and when they get some, they immediately manufacture what they have and sell it. For that reason some carbaryl dust will become available, periodically, he said, before it completely disappears from shelves. Thats why I kept trying to find some. With that said, it almost seems to good to be true, and I won’t believe it until I have it in my hands!!!
Rob

[Thomas Maddox]

Rob. Thanks for sharing! I ordered a bottle ( didn't want to get greedy and don't know how old it is). I hope you don't mind that i shared it on the main page.

[Martintown33]

Hi Thomas.. Absolutely not! I hope they have enough to go around!
Rob

[Conrad Baker]

I posted this question in a previous thread, but what do you think the difference is in the Southern Ag 5% carbaryl, and the Garden Tech dust that is 5% carbaryl?? Do you think one might be more effective than the other?? The only difference I see on Amazon is the price, the Southern Ag is $17.99 for one, and the GardenTech 5% carbaryl dust is 2 bottles for $22.00. Just wondering. Of course I would personally want the one that would be most effective in killing mites, but if they both contain the same product, I would prefer to get 2 bottles for $4 more than the one bottle of Southern Ag product.

[Martintown33]

Conrad, I hope I’m wrong, but I thought this seemed too good to be true. I’m wondering if this is some kind of mistake on Amazon. My bottle of southern ag carbaryl 5% is supposed to arrive tomorrow and it hasn’t even shipped yet. To your question, I think both products have the same effectiveness .. if they actually arrive. I won’t believe it til I have my hands on it.
I’ll post back and update.
Rob