SY male gone rogue?

[Martintown33]

I’m finding and unusual amount of missing or dead bare skinned baby hatchlings, 2 to 5 days old, on the ground , dead, missing, or pulled to the front of the double room compartments..they all look perfectly fine.. no external damage, no signs of parasites, or hunger.. I do nest checks every 2 to 3 days during hatching and fledgling … this number of dead/missing babies, coincides with the most number of SY males I’ve ever had.. not sure if this is a coincidence or one or more of the SY males is the culprit.. I’ve never caught any of them in the act, so I cant say for sure, but don’t see any other explanation. Food is plentiful in here in hot se Louisiana so starvation can’t be the problem. Nests are bone dry, vented, and treated with small amount of sevin dust… and ideas?
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

Your gut is right Rob. Its the SYs. Like Brent this year, and me last year. Lost alot of chicks.

Everything points to them. Not much we can do. Even going out there when they lurk on the porches just moves them to another cavity. Shoot, even 7 day old chicks were pulled out last year.

Those that survive will be fat and happy.

I look forward to SY arrivals, then dread it. BUT they are here, and good thing too sometimes. Lost an ASY male early on, proud subbie took his place and they have 4 eggs.

In fact Rob, last year was so bad I thought to stop posting numbers of eggs and fledges.

One PS: you had me wondering about starlings and their cooperation (or lack of) during nesting...here's what I found.

Non-breeding helpers:
There are documented cases of juvenile starlings from a first brood helping to feed a second brood, sometimes gathering food themselves.

No wonder they are so successful.

[Martintown33]

Damn tom. That bad for you last year? Yea, I’ve never had it this bad before. Maybe , Some of The ASY males holding on to 2 gourds comes back to haunt them. If they would give the gourd up, then the SYs would have a mate and his own babies to worry about. Doesn’t excuse them, or ease my level of pi@@ed off, but it is what it is. Agree.. I shoo them away when I see them leering in a compartment , but they’re sneaky and persistent. Interesting on the starlings. Bluebird broods have been known to do the same thing.
Update to this post..
P.S. I just went back and checked my notes. The SY or SYs killed 4 babies in one day.. 8 to 9 in the last 6 days. Terrible..
Good luck on your fledglings coming up!
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

It sux man. Yes, I threw a rolled up sock up at one young male once. It just looked at it.

Keep after them, enemy within the gates. Even during fledge time they are un relenting and drive chicks away from the colony...wonder how many perish?

That pair still has 2? Wow! Those are some strong birds!

Makes one think of adding a rack, but you know it will fill, and subbies will be around in force once again.

[Martintown33]

Yea tom. It does suck… Enemy within the gates for sure. Agree, Adding a rack would help, but as you say that would eventually fill up too. I’m at full capacity this season. Probably not a coincidence the SYs are killing more than usual.
I was thinking.. we go through all this work and preparation for them. Fight off hawks, hosps , starlings , mites and other predators. I have no idea how many hosps and starlings I’ve shot over the years, protecting my martins. I started this as a young man, been hosting them over 1/4 century. They bring countless hours of entertainment, joy and wonder watching them. But man , so disheartening to see the biggest threat of all is themselves. No hawk has ever killed close to this many as the SYs are doing this season. I don’t understand why they would damage the propagation of their own kind. Just goes to show there’s good and evil in everything. I’m discouraged right now, but they’ll do something tomorrow to make it all worth while.
Rob

[paule]

So far I have not seen this. What happens here is he SY's are beat up by the ASY's to the point of them moving on to other colonies. The ones that stay usually have mates. Nature can be cruel. As a young boy growing up on a farm, it was always painful when tomcats would destroy kittens. Then my pet tomcats would disappear. Always suspected my father.

Last year was the worst egg to fledge percentage we have ever seen. It was blamed on rainy weather. We were worried about pathogens and washed our clothes and showered after every nest check mostly because we had a couple of parrots inside. What I observed pointed to a possible different problem. Shortly after the fields were inoculated by aircraft both adults and young would quit eating. We supply supplemental feeding but young and old would just waste away. We have seen a "little" bit of this before but last year was the first year they also used helicopters. I have no scientific evidence just observations. Will be watching and documenting closely this year.

P.S. This year we are involved in the Pooper Snooper Study. It is designed to do DNA on species of insects consumed. It may not be a stretch in detecting harmful chemicals also consumed. "HINT" Our state also has the second largest percentage increase in cancer in the nation.

Paul

[Thomas Maddox]

It stinks no doubt. I like to think it's about survival of the fittest. The strongest survive and produce even stronger PMs. I hope that's true anyway. Socks! Lol. I may try throwing my wife's socks at them. They'll either stop or die.

[Martintown33]

Hey Thomas. Yep I hear ya. But I also look at this way. Yes, It’s survival of the fittest. But it’s also a numbers game for the success of the species. Which is better? To have a rogue baby murdering SY kill 10 baby birds, who if lived , would produce countless offspring in their lives, or eliminate 1 SY … I’m not saying I would do it, but at some point, the amount of babies lost by one rogue SY male, may change my mind. I certainly hope it never comes to that. It would be a terrible thing to have to do, but again, it may be a better route, for the success of these wonderful birds.
Rob

[C.C.Martins]

Rob,
Its frustrating to no end. We very well know what those guys are up to. This week has been tough, those upper level lows north of us have the winds ripping here. Little to eat so both adults leave to find food, meanwhile those subbies sulk and stalk.

I look at it like this: the subbies will take a toll, and iv found the easiest gourds for them to access (and iv tunneled super gourds, excluder gourds, natural gourds) are troyer horizontal. Not saying they are bad, they are not. State of the art. Going to buy 4 more soon.

I believe those chicks that survive will make it all the way. Say a nest of 5 goes to 2. They will be some strong chicks. Fledging will be much easier on them, staying with adults and keeping up...they will be ready for the trials to come.

I used to believe every fledge will make it...I know too naive. Then during our drought 2 years ago, id find dead fledges on the ground, under bushes etc. Starved and too weak. 4 or 5 anyway, that just the ones I found. Every nest was empty though.

It is tough, and not easy to watch. Try not to hate the subbies, hope they return as ASY.

[Martintown33]

Hi tom. Sorry about the weather you’re having .. damn . Always something.. ..
but Agree tom. I don’t hate them. I was just considering what would be best for the species as a whole. I know which one is the culprit. I memorized his feather pattern with the binoculars. I have several SYs that are paired up , feeding their babies and doing fine. This one guy is a big time trouble maker. I did another nest check today, 3 days in a row now. No more losses. So hopefully he’ll be calming down. I don’t think I could have put him down anyway … I have noticed that 2 ASYs that were holding on to an extra gourd, seem to be finally relinquishing them to the SYs. That will certainly help. It’s a good idea , you have, to put up some extra gourds after the ASYs have all settled in and have nests built, to give the SYs a place to stay. But if they don’t mate up, I still think they will be out trying to reduce competition for next year, which is what the baby killing is all about, in my opinion. Anyway, that SY is in the clear now, and I hope he will Be a good boy! lol
Rob

[brent]

Rob and all. Earlier I found a very healthy looking chick dead under one of the houses. It did have an injury on its head and I immediately knew it was an SY. I too have had several SYs this year. I counted at least 5 at one time. On the same day I found the dead chick I saw an SY exit a compartment with a chick about the same size in it’s beak and dropped it several yards away in a pasture I couldn’t get to. Then again the next day I saw it happen again but this time the SY dropped it not far from the house. I was able to get it. It did not appear to be injured. I was able to put it back in to the nest and as of today’s nest check it was fine. I did find, too, a very small chick just days old on the porch of a compartment and immediately got it back into a nest and it too is doing fine. The chicks are all now bigger and I’m seeing less aggressive SYs. Frustrating. Good luck. My oldest chicks (10 of them) are fledge ready. I have a total of 75. The season is going fast. I won’t let my guard down. Good luck to you, all of you. Brent

[Martintown33]

Great job saving those young birds Brent!!
. I too had an SY fly off with a 5 day old baby in its beak, but he didn’t drop it until he was out of sight so I didn’t have a chance to save that one. I did put 2 back that had been dragged to the front , that are doing fine.. I agree, the SY attacks seem to be stopping as the hatchlings are getting too big now. Congrats on your first fledglings of season..
Rob

[Martintown33]

I did another nest check today (5 days in a row), cool , rainy day, and found another baby martin pulled to the front room, by my rogue SY.. . 7 days old.. he was shivering and cool to the touch.. I returned him to the back nesting room, where he started warming up quickly. This one particular SY is driving me crazy. I have to do nest checks every day to make sure he hasn’t pulled another one out of the nest room.. every time any of the parents return with food to feed their young, they buzz him, no matter where he is perched at the time….so they are on to him….there are only 2 nests left with babies small enough for him to mess with… so just got to keep checking those …
Rob

[Mstan]

Rob,you are an example of what a good landlord looks like. Thank you

[Martintown33]

Did another nest check today. All babies safe.. I don’t think I’ll be having anymore problems from this SY… he has finally gotten a gourd that was being held onto by an ASY pair as a second gourd. And he has a mate and 1 egg so far.. so he’ll be busy with his own family now. He’ll have to grow up fast as he babies won’t fledge til around July 4 to 8 … right when the colony is departing for the roost.. I hope he does a great job and has a successful brood!
Rob

[Martintown33]

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[C.C.Martins]

Thank goodness! Wow, that pair held onto those gourds for a long time!
Way to take care of those guys Rob!

[Martintown33]

Yea Tom, they held on to it for a long time for sure. Both the male and/or the female in the gourd next door would chase him away whenever he perched on it. She had built a great full nest in both gourds.
.. But he never gave much of a fight for it, like most SY males will do. Maybe because it’s 2 on 1. But he was persistent and I guess the ASY pair got tired of it as their brood is 24 days old and soon to fledge.
Rob