Bachelor SY-M Behavior

[switchgrass2001]

I have posted in a couple other posts that I have my first pair nesting (SY-M and SY-F) this year. Five eggs with expected hatch date of July 1 or July 2. Still crossing my fingers.

My question is regarding a couple SY-M's that have been frequenting my gourd rack for about 3 weeks. They have very distinctive chest markings so I have been able to determine they are the same two birds. I have been watching ever so closely in the evenings and I am pretty sure they have yet to roost in any of my gourds overnight to date. However, they typically show up about 7:30 in the morning and hang around until mid-morning, alternating between flying overhead, checking out the remaining gourds, and perching above the gourds. They fly overhead in the afternoon and then typically return to gourds late afternoon to early evening with similar activity as the morning. I don't see them after 7:00 (sunset is a little after 9:00).

I have a few questions. First, is this typical? Typical in the sense that they are regulars over a period of 3-4 weeks yet never roost here. Second question is are they more than likely roosting at another colony or do they continue to roost in trees if they don't find a mate? I have very few colonies in the area and the ones that I am aware of are basically unattended houses that have very few birds from year to year. Lastly, can I expect these two males to wreak havoc with the young hatchlings if they successfully hatch? They have been pestering the female a little bit, but nothing too serious that seems to have threatened the nesting/incubation process.

Thanks for any information and anxiously awaiting hatch day(s)!

[C.C.Martins]

It is strange, they may be from another colony...iv about 13 subbie bachelors and Bachelorette's they stayed the whole season and slept in the gourd arms to emerge and wreak havoc during the day.

Now that the chicks have mostly fledged they play house until the adult arrivals in the evening.

They go back to the gourd arms with those fledges who decide to sleep out at night.

I think they are always hopeful for a place to nest, their instincts are driving them to the point they will disrupt a nesting pair and harm chicks. Thats why I think they are visiting from another site. I take it you are full?
Subbies are notorious for inexperience when it comes to guarding nests etc, so they may be visiting when they really should be tending their nests.
Tom

[switchgrass2001]

I am not full. I only have four total gourds and only one is occupied. The two bachelor males mess around in the other three and periodically peak into the occupied gourd. The SY-M of the nesting pair typically will chase them off when they sit on the porch of the occupied gourd. The SY-M from the nesting pair appears to be quite responsible , so I am hoping he will be a good dad!

[C.C.Martins]

I'm glad for you! Should be good to go then. We had one SY pair, they laid real low the whole season but did well.
Tom

[Birdiegirl]

We have a couple subbie pairs at our site this year, and a few bachelor subbies hanging around. Up until now, they've seemed pretty harmless, just a little nosy. I can't prove it yet, but I suspect that one of them may have crossed the line and raided a nest. One of our subbie pairs nested late- started with three eggs, and on last nest check there was just a single three day old chick (no sign of unhatched eggs). I have not seen activity at that cavity the last two days, when I should see parents bringing in food. I suspect I will find an empty nest on Saturday's nest check. After reading posts here, I guess young parents don't know to leave one parent close by in cause a marauding SY gets too close. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[brent]

SYs can be a serious problem. I have had little chicks taken out of the nest and put right on the porch in the hot sun. Good chance I’m home most of the time and was able to save all but one of them. I can see the SYs lurking, looking and snooping. This year all of my pairs were ASY (except one where the female was SY). Interesting enough once the chicks hatched one parent would stay with the chicks while the other was out getting food. They were protecting their kids. I reported earlier on an ASY female that was protecting her nest from a SY male and during fighting she was injured. I had to take her to a rehabber. She recovered and was released. Keep an eye on them and check your porches. Walk arounds are encouraged. Brent

[C.C.Martins]

Your right Brent, not practical to pull systems down but that walk around can save chicks. Sorry about those eggs birdiegirl, those birds learn the hard way and do well guarding with later seasons.
I don't know what the heck it is with those subbies, we aren't off the hook when the chicks are older either....when fledging subbies try to drive them off! No telling how many perish like that; adults can only do so much. I know its the way it is but hard to watch. The subbies just stuck around all season. Whole bunch of them.
So lesson is to watch, do the walk arounds. Trying to intercede is pointless.

[switchgrass2001]

Thanks for all the information. It's kind of ironic as I've been waiting for martins for 8 years and now I have too many! I was so hoping they would pair up, but it is what it is.

I guess I can hope they return as ASYs next year.

[C.C.Martins]

Thanks for all the information. It's kind of ironic as I've been waiting for martins for 8 years and now I have too many! I was so hoping they would pair up, but it is what it is.

I guess I can hope they return as ASYs next year.

I hope so too! Don't be surprised if they do, 8 year wait is well past time for your colony to explode.

I was hoping the subbies here would go 1.5 miles distance to our other colony but nope!

All the best! Keep an eye on those subbies.....

[rjm2]

Hi all,

This is my 3rd year with martins with 5 nesting pr this year, up from 3 last year. I am really bummed out. Yesterday, I decided to do a nest check to check for mites. I already had to treat one nest about a week ago. Unfortunately, one of the nest with 5 very young babies had mites and needed help. After treating for the mites, I started raising my gourd house back up when 3 older babies from another nest got spooked and fledged way. 2 of the 3 flew really good while the 3rd was obviously not quite as strong. OMG, you would of thought WW3 just started with maybe 7 SY's chasing the poor young birds. I had no idea the SY's can be so mean and would attack the young birds. One of the 3 young birds tried to return to it's gourd house but was viciously attacked and driven off by the gang of SY's. I believe the 3 young birds are up in nearby trees since the ASY's were circulating and talking up a storm. I was hoping the 3 would be back in their gourd this morning, but doesn't look like they made it back.
After reading about this situation, it sounds like the odds of these 3 young birds to survive is not great. Not sure what I would have done differently...

Randy

[Birdiegirl]

I will really try to accept the good with the bad with these SY-M. I keep reminding myself that a SY-M did start our colony. And as Tom points out, I suppose some do teach first time nesters a valuable lesson to keep the nest guarded- maybe making them better future parents. SYs do make me appreciate the experienced parenting of older birds. It was hot here yesterday, and some older chicks were lounging out of two entrances onto the porch. Both ASY-Ms were perched on the porches dutifully guarding them while Moms brought in food. One of those ASY-M- 'Leroy'- even performed an impressive body slam to a SY-M that came in too close. Not gonna lie- I laughed out loud on that one

[C.C.Martins]

Randy,
If the adults chased after them, chances are it'll be fine. Its some rough lessons isnt it?

Its not the easiest hobby, but honestly let the martins be martins and try to distance yourself, easier said hard to do.

You can very well use the plug and string on the older nests to keep them from jumping, seems when one goes, the others follow right behind....when in doubt plug it. Easy enough to pull the plug on an empty nest once you've taken a peek.
Birdiegirl had some fantastic luck with that recently.

Birdiegirl, thats good old school parenting there!
Tom

[rjm2]

I hope you are right Tom. I haven't seen the parents all day, so maybe they are feeding the 3 young in the trees.

Yes, it was a tough lesson. I did have the gourd plugged, but I removed it too soon. I will definitely use a string next time to remove the plug after letting the house sit still for 10 minutes.

Thanks for the info.

Randy

[randyM]

Randy,

If the three young made it to nearby trees, their parents will feed them in the trees and all should be fine. Some families come back to their nest cavities each evening anywhere from a few nights up to a week or more. Some families don't return in the evenings once young fledge and roost in trees together each night. Adults have invested a lot of time and energy getting young to fledging age and typically will tend to them until they can feed themselves. It's interesting to see how martin families recognize each other after they fledge. I'm involved in a banding study at my site where 150 young are banded each year. It's remarkable to see fledged young make their way to the same nest cavity each night. I have 300+ available cavities and 90 nests last year (115 this year). Each evening in late July it is total chaos with returning young getting booted out of the wrong cavity and others being guided by parents to the correct nest cavity. Some get lost or confused and end up staying in a vacant cavity alone for the evening but end up finding their family members the following morning at a nearby treetop. I've seen banded nestmates that were separated the evening before roosting together in nearby trees the next morning all being tended to and fed by both parents. I'm sure the 3 young at your site that left the nest the other day are doing fine.

Randy

[rjm2]

Thank you Randy for the info. I'm starting to feel better about the survival probability for the 3 young birds.