snakes! real problem

[ron20m]

Was a purple martin lover as a kid. Moved into my place in 1995 and it had a single trio. Got one pair first year, expanded to 3 Gemini racks with 72 gourds, mix of Bo-11 and Troyer horizontal.
Had 242 eggs by count and 1st hatch of 3 baby martins in mid may. We had a weird cold snap and 60 degree weather, didn't check nests because I hoped the martins were on eggs keeping them warm. Worked out of town over holiday. Came back, excited to do nest check and had 5 nests of new babies but the first three, GONE. HUNDREDS of eggs GONE. Found an adult male, dead, with top of head pecked raw, that nests eggs GONE. Only two eggs on ground with holes pecked in them. Less than 40 eggs and/or babies left. Some of eggs so new, think they might be start overs from attack.
In 27 years, I've read about snake attacks, tried the netting and never caught a snake and never could do it that it didn't interfere with me getting houses down.
Past two years I've had a 3-4 foot black rat snake attack that got a nest of 20 day old babies in August and after eating was resting in gourd so I politely relocated them several miles away. Across a couple highways.
I have never felt like I was doing snake netting right, so I spayed predator guards with silicon to "slick" them up and sprinkled "snake away" on the guard holes and around base. But We've had a ton of rain which I'm sure washes away smell and silicon effectiveness.
I'd seen snake plans on this site, never felt good about my work. After this attack I watched a youtube video which looked promising but lady doing video states "I've never caught a snake".
The main thing I gleaned was her use of 2X4 inch chicken wire to create arms for the mesh.
The mesh I bought is so small I don't think a snake can even get it's head in. 1/2X1/2. Can't find any 3/4 or 1. In the past the instructions rec two different sizes.

Would appreciate any help.

Will not let my birds down again

[brent]

OMG! Ron, I’m sorry to hear about your losses. I combine 3/4” and 1/2”. I caught a snake on it’s way down last year. It was able to breach the netting and the baffle guard. My mistake though is that the netting was on the ground and it was able to lift itself up and over it but on the way down it had to go through it. One chick was taken. I ordered the 3/4” on line but bought the 1/2” at Lowe’s. I know that the recommended placement of the netting is above the baffle guard but you’re right about it’s interference with lowering the housing so now I have it below the baffle guard making it easier to access the houses. Good luck to you. Brent

[C.C.Martins]

Welcome!!! You are in the right place to ask for help.
Boy, sorry to hear all that. Sounds like a combination of problems but guess we'll talk about keeping those snakes away first sir.
You probably ran across Kathy Freeze, a fantastic landlord, who mentors 100s of other landlords, and her snake guard. Hers was the go to for me, lost a whole clutch to a rat snake last year.
1/2 inch net will be fine, follow her guidance. She places hers way above her predator guard. Mine is below it. Either way is fine but I don't need a ladder to retrieve a snake from that high and to be honest don't want to try balancing and retrieving a snake.
It is designed to catch them, they try to worm their way through and get caught. So get ready for that and look at it every day.
I don't remember if she mentioned it but please make sure you fasten the netting to the pole. Zip ties work well.
I'd suggest you tackle that problem quick. You won't need sprays any more.

Then discuss why those birds and eggs got tossed and broken/killed, we'd like to help.
Tom

[Spiderman]

You can buy the 3/4” deer netting at Ace Hardware or True Value.

Make sure it is soft netting like silk.

[SueK]

Why does it have to be "soft netting", "like silk", please? Will the snakes not snag themselves in rigid types?
I'm currently trying to deal with our "resident" snakes, too. Am not real keen about finding still-alive reptiles tangled up on a PM pole, would rather use current on top of pvc to "charge" them away!
Thanks.

[C.C.Martins]

The netting iv used iv gotten from garden stores, 1/4 and 1/2 inch mesh. A mix of both types on the same guard, just layered together. Its called bird netting.

I don't like to see them in the net either but the alternative is them wiping out the martins and they will, no doubt. They will go from nest to nest.

I think if you put it up high, that may work but don't be shy about the amount you use. You want no gaps near the pole zip ties work well. Its just that high may interfere with nest checks. Also if you put it up high, now you are on a ladder extracting a live snake......
Just some thoughts
Tom

[Spiderman]

Why does it have to be "soft netting", "like silk", please? Will the snakes not snag themselves in rigid types?
I'm currently trying to deal with our "resident" snakes, too. Am not real keen about finding still-alive reptiles tangled up on a PM pole, would rather use current on top of pvc to "charge" them away!
Thanks.

It just doesn’t, the hard netting made out of plastic doesn’t work. Snakes have scales like a fish. He moves forward until his body can’t move forward as it gets larger. When he attempts to back up the soft netting catches the scales on his body, from this there is no escape.

I tried both kinds and the soft netting works.

[Matt F.]

I've never understood why someone doesn't offer a system to mount snake netting to.
I've hinted at it to the PMCA over the years, and even reached out directly to a well-known manufacturer about making something available for purchase.
No replies, nothing offered, nothing.
Even something as basic as offering conventional stovepipe style guards, with small, pre-mounted rods sticking out around the top of the guard to attach the netting to.
Anything.....anything at all.
It's already well known and documented that snakes easily circumvent the conventional guards, so why nothing is offered is maddening to say the least.
There are a lot folks that simply don't have the resources or physical ability to craft or fabricate something to properly mount the netting at all, or even in a way that doesn't make lowering/raising the housing problematic.
I guess it's similar to starling-resistant entrance equipped housing that's still being sold without wing-entrapment guards, even though it's a well documented and devastating thing that happens.
There are probably some manufacturers that feel that snake attacks and wing-entrapments don't happen enough, to warrant adding products or making changes to existing products to address them.

[BillieJR]

You definitely make a good point and I really wish, too, that someone would manufacture and offer this. I would think it would be a really good seller!!!

[C.C.Martins]

Agree! Make it effective and able to use easily, get it front of our faces so folks and their martins don't go through a snake getting through their barrier they think is ok. Martins pay the price.
One of the chuck abare wooden style came apart already, not a bad design, bad wood. Im already thinking of using a 2inch thick big rubber disk.....dont know what the design will be yet. In the mean time put up another Kathy freeze style in its place...over the baffle so nest checks are a pain.

[flyin-lowe]

I think with all the different sizes and shapes of poles as well as different ways people have guards mounted it would be hart to make a one size fits all type netting set up. It would be a lot easier and cheaper for someone just to buy the netting and attach it themselves.

[Spiderman]

If you have square poles, Lowes has 1” aluminum angle iron and 90 degree pieces to connect them together Just cut to the size you want (hacksaw)and drill holes for screws to connect the pieces together.

Then apply your netting.

[brent]

Spider-Man can you attach a picture of that? I’m glad to read about the netting needing to be soft and not the hard plastic. I had 3/4 inch hard netting and 1/2 inch soft combined. Thank God no snakes. The one I have for the Bluebirds is all soft. Well I guess I know what I need to improve for next season. Thanks for the information! Brent

[Constant patrol]

Ten years ago I had a large rat snake breach my 24 x 8 inch hvac duct snake guard. I replaced them with a 60 x 8 or 10 inch
guards. And added a electric fence charger wiring to my main poles. I have found many snake attempting to go up poles but
none has made it yet. I made some the guards where they would detach from the outer wall of the duct and slide down to the
bottom of the pole.

[ron20m]

Update!
I was too emotional to do a hard count on number of eggs lost.
Went on vacation and came back to, I'd say ~85% of eggs have been re layed!
I will do a hard count and post eventually.
Bad news is I'm in a heat belt and late eggs hard.

Also like I mentioned in original post I had multiple nests of 5-6 eggs that only 2 hatched and rest did not and had babies in eggs. I presume because of the cooler weather.

Another first. Pulled down a gourd with two live babies and a dead female inside gourd. Never seen that before

[C.C.Martins]

Damn! Any idea why she died?

[jasalva]

I am an experienced landlord. A few years ago we discovered missing eggs from a gourd. We have always used a large baffle/predator guard with deer netting on the top. Following that year’s loss, we added netting to the bottom. The poles are set in a clear place. We check gourds weekly and today we have a gourd missing all of its 5 eggs (will watch to see if the parents are still around.). We lost none last year with the same technique. We also spray the area with snake guard. Is it possible that something else happened?
The rest of the 23 gourds are fine.
Thank you.
Judy

[ron20m]

In an absolute crazy turn of events, some netting I bought last year but didn't put up, I put on the ground in my bird storage room. A black rat snake got himself trapped! In my storage room! He was big and I have no idea how he even got in there.
Which made me think.
Instead of just around the martin poles, Why not? lay some netting around places like a wood pile or areas I tend to see snakes in the yard and catch them before they even they get to the poles. Except for catching a garter snake, I guess.
I'm going to try it while the grand kids are here because I know they will get checked 50 times a day.

[ron20m]

Judy,
I have that happen too! I have sparrow problems so I suspect them but there will be no broken shells. nothing on the ground. I didn't think a snake would climb up and eat 5 eggs and leave.
I've never gotten an answer other than lists of predators.
Ron

[C.C.Martins]

Judy, Ron,

No telling unless you actually caught a snake, or sparrow or whatever in the act. If eggs are missing i suspect a number of things, snakes first, sparrows then other martins and finally the adult pair.

Lost 6 eggs in one nest this year, however can rule out snakes. Iv two layers of snake netting up. One low down the other 6 feet above that, suspect the other martins.

Guess we know snake netting works but its got to be put up effectively if there's a gap, holes too large snakes can get through.

Here at work there was a rattlesnake that got caught in netting placed on some new grass seedlings! Stuff works but has to be effective.