Young colony- newbie observations/questions

[Birdiegirl]

Happy to share that we've had 7 birds spending the night for about two weeks 4 ASY males, 2ASY females, 1SY female. There is one obvious pair, two other 'pairs' that hang out mostly together but still seem to be working out what apartment to share (don't always overnight in the same place), and one single ASY male. Still hoping that a few more SY could join the party- so far these 7 have run off a couple SY males. A few birds are casually bringing in nesting material- but don't seem serious yet.

Is it common for males to bring in nesting material to more than one cavity- maybe to attract a mate, or get her to decide on a nest site?

If a female brings in material is that a signal that she's chosen that cavity?

Other landlords in KY- or close- when does your nest building usually start in earnest? Can I expect more SYs to arrive?

[Jones4381]

Eagerly following this one. 6 here Birdie. 2 ASY Male 1 SY male. 1 ASY female and I think 2 SY females (they are much lighter on the breast plate to the tail feathers...the SY female is the hardest for me to identify so I watch and listen to their sounds). PS. Zeus/Ellie who tore out all the pine straw has a 50/50 mix of leaves and hay/straw combo...they both have been bringing in leaves but only Ellie to this point has brought in straw. Take care...oh and Apollo finally has a sy female going in the gourd with him...when Zeus ain't chasing him around.

[birdman in buckhead]

Is it common for males to bring in nesting material to more than one cavity- maybe to attract a mate, or get her to decide on a nest site?

If a female brings in material is that a signal that she's chosen that cavity?

Hi Birdiegirl - I'll try to answer your questions based on my 5 years of experience.

- I've never seen males bring in nesting material to attract a mate. I've only seen males help with nest building after the nest compartment has been chosen by the female or jointly chosen by the pair. Many times the males bring the material to the female and she does the construction, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

- I would have to answer "yes" to your 2nd question, although I've seen many half finished nests, and don't know exactly why nest building was stopped. I've never seen a pair build a nest in a different unit. My GUESS is one of the pair, or both, were killed or became sick and unable to finish the nest. Or parasites or nest unit competition was too much. I've never seen the latter happen, but I've seen many unfinished nests.

Last year an ASY female laid 3 eggs in an unfinished nest. What happened before she laid the eggs was bizarre to me. The nest was almost complete, then the female removed half of the nest. I thought maybe there were parasites, but then she put some of the SAME nesting material back in the nest compartment . She was making a lot of noise and at first I thought she may have a wing entrapped before seeing her removing nest material. Needless to say, she got many strange looks from other ASY females nesting in the same house, while the mate just stood by and watched. He did not help at all with the nest rebuilding, and I don't blame him!

[C.C.Martins]

Hi Laura! Man that is fantastic news, sounds to me like you are constantly watching your colony grow, thrive and have fun. They are a blast to watch. Are you guilty of eating dinner outside watching yet? Haha
They do all kinds of things, some females will lay eggs in 2 cavities! They can bounce around for a bit until they settle down. What you may be seeing is a male who has claimed those cavities, those are his. His mate may stay in one but he has hopes of having all of them.
Sounds like you have some strong birds, eventually he will allow another pair to gain that cavity but chances are the female of the other cavity will have his chicks.
Shoot, as far as nesting material watched a pair bring in stuff last night! Guess they have decided on a new look, don't know.
Enjoy the time they are here, martins really do love life that is sure.
Tom

[Birdiegirl]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I really wasn't sure what 'normal' behavior to expect from ASY birds. Last year all the activity at my site was from SYs- what a hot mess... seemed like constant fighting to me. Can't prove it of course, but I suspect some of these birds could be unpaired SYs from last year that remembered my location.

Tom- I am absolutely GUILTY! If I'm home and it's daylight, I'm outside. I actually came in after dark last evening as I wanted to see them all tuck in for the night. 7 put on quite a show- can't imagine what that looks like for some of you with hundreds of birds. At least one of the males was singing from inside an apartment- that was pretty interesting to hear. It's so hard to go to work and wonder what they're up to when I'm away. Hubby reported 10 when he left this morning- so maybe I do have a few more visitors stopping by.

Birdman- thanks for sharing your observations. Maybe that ASY female of yours last year just wanted to redecorate! I'll watch a little more closely- perhaps the males I have seen bringing material in were just following the lead of a female. Tom mentioned males trying to defend more than one apartment- I believe that could be the case.

Jones- let's keep adding birds! Your setup looks great.

[birdman in buckhead]

Hi Laura - You mentioned a male singing inside his cavity last night. I've heard the same thing many times, but last night it was happening at 1 AM! I'm also a stargazer and was out late/up early to see some meteors that were supposed to put on a show - as usual it was a huge disappointment.... Anyway, I set up my chair about 30 feet from the martin housing, and did not make much noise getting ready to watch the sky. Then I started to hear birds moving around in their units and a few males softly doing their calls. This went on for about an hour. I'm starting to wonder how much sleep martins get at night.

[C.C.Martins]

Laura, its a ritual for most of us....sitting and watching them come in so all is well with the colony. Can't rest without knowing. Last night a subbie was stuck in a troyer entrance, he dared to enter. He couldn't back out and was just getting the snot knocked out of him from the inside, poor guy! I waited for a bit, he was twisting and turning but wouldn't go in any further, went to knock on the pole to distract em. Seemed to work, he went in and came right out.

So much fun, hard to pin down exactly what it is about martins that pull us in but have us they do.
Tom

[MJM]

Well, you are doing way better than I am as a second-year landlord as far as observing, so there's that! I can't even get a reliable count. I just know my house is plain covered with the critters and they make a ton of noise!

[Birdiegirl]

Ha ha- that sounds like a great problem to have MJM. It's a little easier to keep track of when there aren't as many birds. Are your birds bringing in nesting material yet?

[Jones4381]

Wonderful Stuff here!! Saw 9 tonight and for sure counted 5 go in and 1 on the rack at nighfall... I gotta a really tough and determined SY male I like...gonna call him Jago.

6:30-8:15 or so every day for 5 evenings sitting around the garden. Caught a close up of my TS female who's laying right now and enjoying snacking on the ground in my garden...
I hang really close to the TS and PM's daily and stay until I can't see anymore...just soaking it up guys.

[brent]

Hi Laura. Good questions. I have observed that once the female begins to bring in nest material it’s a done deal. She is preparing for a family. I have seen the male bring in the leaves, especially. Can’t remember seeing him bringing in straw and such but maybe it’s because I was so entertained watching that little female trying her best to get a twig in that hole that just wouldn’t fit. My pear trees is leafless on the top due to the males tearing the leaves off. It’s getting really busy here with lots of hatchlings and more to come. Parents are bringing in tons of bugs from flies to mosquito hawks. What a sight. Good luck. Sounds like you’re headed in the right direction. Brent

[scottfreidhof]

Nest building began on May 1st over here on the east side of the state. The yard is amazing right now with the martins and up to 17 rose-breasted grosbeaks at the feeder at one time. And the Baltimore orioles showed up in mass last weekend sometimes with 5 at a time sipping sugar water from the hummingbird feeders. Great time of year to be a nerd as my children remind me.

[TravisF]

Hi Laura. I'm not certain, but I believe males will sometimes bring in nest material to attract a mate, especially at a new/younger colony. Search for a guy named Ryan on this forum. I think that's name. If I'm not mistaken, he's from Canada and has been trying for many years to start a colony. A few years back, maybe in 2019 or 2020, he had a SY male show up and stay for quite a while. I believe that male actually built a complete nest, green leaves and all. Ryan even posted pictures.

As far as building multiple nests, both the male and female will do that. I think it's very common for a male or even a pair to claim multiple cavities, especially on house style housing. I could only get 50% occupancy on my goliad house until I added tunnels to half the compartments. Those houses are set up with four compartments on each level. Two units are side by side facing one way, and the other two are side by side facing the opposite way. The first year I had this house, each pair would claim two compartments since they were so close together. Every pair built nests in both compartments, or at least one complete and one partial nest. Two pairs even split up their clutch of eggs between the two compartments. I just waited until she started incubating and moved the other eggs into the nests she was incubating in.

Those SY birds are pretty persistent. Last year around the 1st of June, I had around 25 to 30 SY birds roosting on porches or gourd arms at night because they couldn't claim a cavity since all were full or claimed. They stayed for a while, but I think an owl started picking them off during the overnight hours, and they eventually left. I'd say you've got a pretty good shot of getting a few SY pairs!

[TravisF]

As a follow-up to my last post, his name is Ryan and the title of his post was "I can't believe it, but I have one hanging around" It's a very interesting and long thread.

[Birdiegirl]

Thanks everyone. Travis.... that was an interesting thread- thanks for sharing. WOW your site grew quickly! Very encouraging for those of us trying the build colonies.

Yesterday we saw two of the pairs bring in green leaves. Is now the time to start nest checks?

I assume it's pretty common for colonies to have drawn out hatch dates? We have two pairs ready for eggs, but others still deciding (10 birds total). I wonder if I should not have offered as many open cavities/gave them too many options. I could close a few 'empty' sites during our first nest check but want to leave options open in case I can still snag some SYs.

[TravisF]

Laura,

Personally, I wouldn't close any compartments. Having options is a good thing. It sounds like you've got some SY birds showing up now. With a couple ASY pairs already established at your site, I think the odds are VERY HIGH that you'll snag several SY pairs yet. Last year my first SY showed up the first week of May, and I was still getting new birds into early June. Out of the 61 occupied/successful cavities I had last year, 34 were occupied by SY males. This year I currently have around 50 ASY pairs, and I still haven't seen any SY birds yet. I believe they'll show up in mass this week with the strong south winds and warm weather.

Hatch dates can be really stretched out. As an example, my first fledges last year were on June 26, and my last two nests of 4 chicks each fledged on August 29 and September 8. Those last two nest were complete surprises. I thought I was done fledging around the middle of August, but then noticed adults bringing food into two previously empty gourds about a week later. I was shocked to see chicks in there! To be clear, fledging into September is fairly unusual from what I've read, so I wouldn't expect that to be the norm. The vast majority of my chicks last year fledged between the end of June and the end of July.

Just because you see green leaves being carried in doesn't necessarily mean they're ready to lay eggs yet. Once my martins start showing up in the spring, I start doing checks about once a week. I do that just as a precautionary measure in case of sparrows I haven't noticed, dead martins, etc. This year, I bet probably a third of my cavities had green leaves in them before they even started bringing in nest material. I don't think it would hurt you to go ahead and check, at least to see how far along the nest building is coming. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in on this. Personally, I wouldn't quite yet though. You've got a new colony trying to get established, and you've got SY birds showing now. I personally would wait a week or so to hopefully let some of those SY birds become bonded to your site. But, if you do decide to take a peek, I don't think you'll hurt anyting if you make it a quick check.

Keep us posted with your progress this year. I bet you end up with several more pairs!

[Birdiegirl]

Thanks Travis! My schedule hasn't worked out to be at home during a good nest check time of day. I'll leave all the cavities open and may try a check after church on Sunday provided the birds are away. I don't want to discourage any late arrivals. This year I do want to try and participate in the PMCA nest monitoring program. This will be my first year doing that- am I correct that they suggest starting nest checks prior to eggs being laid? And with your experience last year Travis, I can see how late season nest checks are also very important.

This year I am offering 30 cavities: a T-14, 12 cavities in two S&K barns with enlarged apartments, and 4 Bo 9 gourds. Last evening I watched two martin pairs pull maple leaves off a nearby tree and stuff their apartments... I do think eggs may be imminent for them. Mid May is defiantly bringing in new SYs... I saw two different males last night. I happily find myself in uncharted territory at times, with too many birds to keep track of when visitors stop by. I'm sure I have four pairs staying the night now, and probably some singles. Feeling pretty hopeful and blessed. Thanks to all for the helpful advice.