Decoys vs No Decoys

[alfie]

Hello everyone - I am wondering if putting out decoys would help attract the Martins. Last year I had 1 pair that showed up around the end of February. So far this year I don't have any. I played the Dawnsong last year when they were leaving and I had a lot of visitors. I've been playing the Dawnsong since the beginning of February but I still don't have any Martins. About a week ago I put out 4 decoys to see if that would help. I had 1 visitor and that's it. I'm wondering if he saw that the decoys weren't real so he left. I've attached the Dawnsong under the Sunset Inn houses and play it everyday from 5am to 5pm. Any ideas or comments? Thanks

[jhcox]

There are a lot of things that you can do to help promote visitors to stay. Dawn song is a good way Martin decoys never hurt my opinion they help a lot to attract and to prevent your colony from being wiped out do the Hawks and owls because nine times out of 10 they go after the decoy because it’s the last one there. My decoys have scars all over the head and back of them from hawk and owl attacks. Also you can smear mud on the entrance and porches of your cavities and I found using mirrors in a couple of the cavities heal because a Martins look in and they see another what appears to be Live Martin looking out at them. Hope this helps I have a great season and if you don’t get them this year keep trying they will eventually come if you’ve got a good set up.

[deancamp]

I think decoys help along with the Dawn Song, prenesting, smeared mud, etc.. Sounds like you are probably starting over so anything you can do to make your housing lived in will help. Martins want to nest where other Martins are nesting so do what you can to make it look that way. Good Luck and keep us posted of any and all progress.

[alfie]

Thanks ya'll I appreciate your responses. I'll try the mirror suggestion. I had mud on the entrances but I think the rain washed it off. I'll put more mud on it. Thanks again

[deancamp]

Hey Alfie, just noticed on your signature you had 5 eggs but no fledglings. Any ideas? None hatched? If your pair didn't nest successfully (have fledglings) they wouldn't have the site fidelity to come back.

[alfie]

Hi Dean - not sure what happened. The 5 eggs in a Gourd (with Hawk Guard) to start but when I went out to see if any hatched I noticed only 1 egg was left and nothing else. I looked all around to see if I could find any of the other eggs or babies on the ground but didn't. I have the Snake/Raccoon Guard that PMCA sells that was about 5' off the ground but I have a feeling that didn't work and a snake/raccoon got them. When I went out there I did see the Martins in the tree they usually hang out in. I made a new snake/raccoon guard myself out of 6" PVC and screwed barb wire on the outside to try to prevent a raccoon from climbing up and I'm putting bird nesting on the inside to prevent snakes from getting up. I also put an old Squirrel guard on top of the PVC also with barb wire screwed to it. When the Martins were leaving I was having about 3 to 20 Martins visiting every day, some checking out the gourds, so I'm hoping some of those would come. Was kind of depressing when I noticed I had nothing. This was my first year to have them and this happened.

[deancamp]

Did you have trouble with sparrows? I was helping someone that did not get sparrows eliminated and they ruined 2 nests. Some eggs missing and some pecked. I think a raccoon or snake would have eaten all eggs.

[alfie]

I do have sparrows but I've been catching them in the Revolving Sparrow Trap plus most of them seem to be going to the T14 I have. I purchased the traps from PMCA that work on the T14 and, last year, I caught about 8 that way. Got about 15 with the revolving trap. This year I've caught about 9 HOSP. I also forgot to mention I build 2 Conibear 220 traps. These traps are Instant Kill traps. So far this year I've got 5 Raccoons, 4 Possums and 3 Foxes. For bait I use Marshmallows (Raccoons love them), dog food and HOSP's (who said they aren't good for something.) I also have 6 Conibear 110 traps which are good for Squirrels. I got 6 Squirrels using peanuts and peanut butter as bait. I'll put the 220 traps at the foot of the Sunset Inn pole and make sure there's plenty of bait for them. So now I'll just wait and see.

[dsonyay]

I uses decoys. I think they help attract martins. I definitely believe they are great in case of a hawk attack. I’ve twice seen a hawk come down out of the sky and hit the decoys as the other martins escaped. An incredible thing to witness

[birdman in buckhead]

I was having about 3 to 20 Martins visiting every day, some checking out the gourds, so I'm hoping some of those would come.

IMO, if you have that many visitors a day but none stay something is WRONG! Just some possibilities, ideas, suggestions:
- are there trees too close by?
- turn off the dawn song when martins come around. It might be spooking them when they discover no birds around
- do the birds see you when they visit? If not, make sure they do. I'm not saying to hang out under the housing, just move about doing something so the birds know a human is close by
- is there a cat hanging around. I've read that martins don't like cats and feel cats are a threat. I can certainly understand why!
- are the gourds and other cavities clean? You said you have trapped a lot of sparrows. Have you removed all sparrow nesting material from the cavities?
- I haven't had any luck using decoys to distract hawks. And when I put a decoy on a PM house the martins did not like it at all! I removed it after just a few minutes.
- are there any other colonies nearby? If so, stop by there and try to see something the landlord is doing that you are not. Try talking to the landlord and explain your problem. They might even offer to come take a look at your setup. The few landlords I've met were all very nice and eager to answer any questions and help me get started.

Something had to get the eggs last year, therefore, that pair didn't return because they weren't successful at breeding. Are snakes a possibility? There are "bad" eggs, but normally the birds remove them from the nest and they will be on the ground nearby. Or I've seen birds leave them in the nest - these were probably ones I put back in the nest thinking the eggs rolled out somehow. I no longer do that.

That's all I can think of to offer. Don't give up! Good luck.

[alfie]

I was having that many visitors when they were leaving last year. The nearest tree is over 65' more then the stated 40''. The sparrows I've been trapping are mostly in the repeating traps. I think I only caught 1 in the T14 the gourds are on the Sunset Inn. Haven't seen any sparrows around it. The T14 is about 30' away from the Sunset Inn. I haven't seen any other Martin's Houses in my area. The closest one is about 17 miles away at the Walmart in Bastrop. I don't know who the Landlord in for that location. The Martin houses are in a Gas Station Parking lot. I asked the people at the gas station if they know who the landlord is and they don't know. There are Martins at that location. I'm not watching it all the time. I watch it when I can.

[Jones4381]

If I could I'll play 'devils advocate' and certainly not trying to piss you off or question your rights. Opossums kill 4000 ticks per week, are immune to rabies, kill snakes, and are non-aggressive marsupials that are extremely helpful cleaning up around a home place (one of my favorites to have around my farm (I actually tell people with excess I'll take them off their hands). Foxes eat rodents (squirrels) and Raccoons offer balance and are all necessary for healthy ecosystems. It appears you've done everything necessary for an effective and efficient Martin population but the ecosystem around it seems marred with death and killing of native dwellers and perhaps nature is out of balance there? Perhaps just letting it all work together may change the karma and atmosphere around the homeplace that all animals see a thriving habitat worthy of taking up residence there. I honestly believe with netting and pole guards, the snakes, racoons, opossums, squirrels, foxes?, etc...are a zero threat but offer other great benefits. HOSP and Starlings I understand and practice eradication myself.

Just a thought and not trying to judge or send you to anger Alphie...just offering a different perspective if things don't improve for you with your current efforts. Best of Luck sir and take this with a grain of sand please.

[brent]

I had a snake enter a Bluebird nest and ate one chick leaving another. The chicks were only 13 days old. I caught the snake on it’s way down. It breached the netting and the pole guard. The parent birds forced the lone chick to leave. They never returned. Check your guards. Make adjustments if necessary. Predators are very smart. Brent

[alfie]

Hi Jones4381 - I don't get mad easily so your comment is well taken. There are other reasons I get rid of the critters. One is we have 5 to 20 deers come in our yard and I feed them corn. They are fun to watch especially when they have little ones. Unfortunately the corn also attract other animals which I don't want around so I had to figure out a way to get rid of them. We also have about 10 bird feeders up and 6 hummingbird feeders and the possums and raccoons eat birds. The squirrel eat the corn. Other birds will eat the corn also but all I have to do is open the door and they fly away. I also read that Praying Mantis eat hummingbirds. I've only had to kill one of those. Again I appreciate your comment but since my Martin eggs and possibly hatchlings were killed last year this is WAR!!! Please keep your advice coming I may not agree with you but that is what is good about this country we all have our own opinions.

[Jones4381]

Hi Jones4381 - I don't get mad easily so your comment is well taken. There are other reasons I get rid of the critters. One is we have 5 to 20 deers come in our yard and I feed them corn. They are fun to watch especially when they have little ones. Unfortunately the corn also attract other animals which I don't want around so I had to figure out a way to get rid of them. We also have about 10 bird feeders up and 6 hummingbird feeders and the possums and raccoons eat birds. The squirrel eat the corn. Other birds will eat the corn also but all I have to do is open the door and they fly away. I also read that Praying Mantis eat hummingbirds. I've only had to kill one of those. Again I appreciate your comment but since my Martin eggs and possibly hatchlings were killed last year this is WAR!!! Please keep your advice coming I may not agree with you but that is what is good about this country we all have our own opinions.

Hey Alfie. Good points and thank you for the deeper dive...I too have lots of critters and it's always a balancing act to be sure. Wishing you the best in your journey for the colony and hoping you fill up and have numerous offspring and lots of enjoyment. We agree there is more than one path to get there... and I'm sure both of our ways will get us to where we are hoping to end up (we are in similar plights and stages with our colony development). Peace Bro and looking forward to following your story and successes.

[deancamp]

The visitors Alfie had were at the end of the season when they were grouping up to migrate South so none of these were looking for a nesting spot at that time. Hopefully one or more locked that location in to return to this year. Good Luck and keep us posted on any progress.

[birdman in buckhead]

One other possibilty I thought of is parasites causing martins not wanting to colonize in your housing. Have you checked for mites? Little, almost microscopic bugs that can cause all sorts of problems for martins, especially hatchings. Last year I had an infestation of small beatles in one of the compartments. I'm sure they were blood suckers feeding on hatchings. A little Sevin dust took care of the problem and is also very effective at killing and keeping mites out of the martin housing.

That must be a huge praying mantis to eat a hummingbird! I'd hate to encounter that beast! I hate all insects that can fly and sting, like bees, wasps, hornets, etc. Praying mantises are close to the top of my hate list because of their ability to spit and they are just plain evil looking.

Damn Hawks!

Good luck!

[alfie]

I went to look into the nest the day after the eggs were suppose to hatch to see how many hatched. 5 days earlier they were still eggs and I didn't see any parasites so I don't think they were a problem. I was planning on doing another nest check 5-7 days after they hatched to check on parasites. Never got that far since they were no longer there. Here is the youtube video of the Praying Mantis catching the Hummingbird. You can just search for Praying Mantis vs hummingbird to see more. I accidentally found it so I watch for them now on my feeders. DON'T WATCH if you don't like to see what happens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWqTZErviJI

[Zheeeem]

I use decoys (2). Since my colony is reasonably well established I probably don't need them for attraction any more. But we have the occasional Coopers hawk around here. For some reason, our Coopers seem to go for the decoys, which then lets the PMs scatter and then gang up on the Coopers. So, I'm a fan of decoys.

I think, in general, having well maintained and attractive housing (plus patience) is the key to success. Over the winter I open all the housing, take out all the old nesting materials, hose it down, then spray a miticide that also kills eggs, then after a few weeks hose it down again. When it's time to put the housing back up I put a modest handful of dried grass (weeping lovegrass, which is plentiful here) in each cavity. Not enough for a nest, but enough to get started. I don't put mud on the entries, because we don't have mud around here.