Tree swallow pests

[Steve G]

I am in year 5 of trying to get PM. Goods news is...I have a pair that are nesting and another pair looking. However the TS are going crazy trying to nest in the PM house. I only have 4 apartments open, just trying to limit TS erridication. My question, should I continue to chase the TS out? I have a TS house close to the PM house and the TS have done a good job keeping other TS out of the PM house, but now not so good.

[Mhoover]

Keep removing the tree swallow nests so that they will be forced to accept the cavity that you have for them. Do not let them get attached to your PM housing.

[randyM]

How many TS nest boxes do you have on your property and how many TS pairs are presenting you with this problem? If you only have one TS nest box, perhaps you could try offering another option to them by putting up another next box in your yard on the other side of your martin housing - opposite from your other TS nest box to hopefully attract this persistent TS pair away from your PM housing. Do the TS pair and your martin pairs squabble frequently? I have 50 TS pairs nesting on my property (some occupied TS houses within 60 feet of other occupied TS houses), including one for the first time nesting in a super gourd hanging directly beneath a wooden martin house. There is an ASY PM pair nesting in a compartment less than 2 feet from the TS. The TS laid her 7 eggs first and is half way through incubation, while the PM is just laying now and is on her 3rd egg as of today. The TS pair and PM pair squabble on very rare occasions, but the encounters are less frequent, less intense, and a shorter duration than when the ASY male PM squabbles with SY PM males. TS and PM can "peacefully" nest close together, but this arrangement generally only works after a PM colony is established. I had 1 PM pair successfully nest last year among 40 nesting TS pairs, and this year so far I have 50 nesting TS pairs and 4 nesting PM pairs (plus 3 SY males). I hope you find a solution to your TS situation so you can enjoy both species during the nesting season, as I do. Good luck!

[Steve G]

Thank you so much for your reply.

I have over ten blue bird houses that the TS normally use on my property. There seems to be a couple pair of TS that are trying to nest in my T14. The PM and TS seem to get along OK, I am just wanting to make sure having TS nesting in the T 14 won't create problems with the nesting pair or the one pair looking. I have two gourds below my T14 and the nesting PM are in one of the gourds. If I evict the TS do I just close off the apartment and reopen another???

[flyin-lowe]

How far away is the closest TS cavity to your martin set up? If it is too far away the TS using it will not protect the area that contains the PM housing from other TS.
I am guessing your area is like mine, I could put up 10,000 TS houses and I would have 10,001 pair of TS. I have used Dan Drews protocol in the past and it is tough but it works. This year I tried something different. I left all the housing closed up and had TS all over my martin housing all spring. I did not have any TS housing open near my martin housing so they spent all spring on my martin housing trying to get in. Once I had a few SY martins show up I set a single gourd about 30 feet from my martin housing. The TS flocked to it fighting over it and paid so much attention to that, that they didn't focus on the open cavities of the martin housing. So far it worked. Once you get some ASY martins returning they will not be run off by the TS but they can run off SY martins who don't have strong site fidelity.

[Ed Svetich-WI]

I am not a tree swallow advocate. They are aggressive nest site competitors of any cavity nesting birds. They outproduce blue birds, prothontory warblers and may be responsible for many failed attempts to establish martin colonies. I know they have many fervent advocates, but studies have shown that eager craftsmen have placed far too many bird houses for blue birds with the result that tree swallows have proliferated.

In your case, I agree that you should continue to discourage tree swallows from nesting in your martin housing and force them to seek other nest opportunities. I have three houses occupied by tree swallows this year. After removing half of my blue bird houses two years ago, I actually had two houses occupied by blue birds. I again have two pair of blue birds nesting this year. Tree swallows are in no need of going out of existence as blue birds once were.

I fully embrace the Drew Protocol or the tree swalow emergency protocol. It worked for me years ago, but I encourage moderation in the placement of additional blue bird housing. If you have multiple acres, you can space them judiciously as recomended(100 yards apart), but don't go overboard.

Good luck with your martins.

Ed

[handyman315]

How far away is the closest TS cavity to your martin set up? If it is too far away the TS using it will not protect the area that contains the PM housing from other TS.
I am guessing your area is like mine, I could put up 10,000 TS houses and I would have 10,001 pair of TS. I have used Dan Drews protocol in the past and it is tough but it works. This year I tried something different. I left all the housing closed up and had TS all over my martin housing all spring. I did not have any TS housing open near my martin housing so they spent all spring on my martin housing trying to get in. Once I had a few SY martins show up I set a single gourd about 30 feet from my martin housing. The TS flocked to it fighting over it and paid so much attention to that, that they didn't focus on the open cavities of the martin housing. So far it worked. Once you get some ASY martins returning they will not be run off by the TS but they can run off SY martins who don't have strong site fidelity.

Dead-on been my experience, i.e., TSs were at the root of my three-year failure to establish a NEW (first-time) PM colony . . . well, I was the problem because I was not implementing the Drew protocol exactly . . . just couldn't believe that bringing the TS gourd CLOSER would work, but it did.

Even with a new colony well underway, e.g., ten eggs in three nests and more nesting underway, there are STILL some problems. Even though smaller than PMs, those TSs are mighty little fighters, example . . . just yesterday a SY-M was looking in the TS shepherd hook gourd, now with 6 or 7 babies (yeah, he was looking for trouble and shouldn't have been there) . . . a TS attacked him in less than 15 seconds by swooping in, knocking the PM to the ground, and never letting go . . . I walked out there and was less than three feet away before the TS finally let go. The PM flew away with no apparent injury, but it looked bad. Was the TS choking him? Biting him? Piercing him with claws? All of the above?

Most important thing for me was that the SYs were just too timid to fight off the TSs - even though the TSs were already established in a shepherd hook gourd. When a returning 2016 SY-M returned as a 2017 ASY-M and I kept most of my housing closed MUCH longer did the new colony take hold. At the very least it has been a balancing act, and there is every indication to believe that some troubles will continue.

BTW, TSs are adorable little flyers in their own right, just wish these swallow cousins could get along a little better.

Good luck!

[~Ray~Gingerich]

IF you don't have an established purple martin colony it's best to keep the tree swallows out of your colony completely no matter what distance. The tree swallows will harrass any martin that comes in...there are plenty of sites to choose from,the martins will look elsewhere rather than put up with the hassle of dealing with them.

[handyman315]

IF you don't have an established purple martin colony it's best to keep the tree swallows out of your colony completely no matter what distance. The tree swallows will harrass any martin that comes in...there are plenty of sites to choose from,the martins will look elsewhere rather than put up with the hassle of dealing with them.

Ray, you make a great point, but how? I couldn't get rid of the TSs. Kept my housing closed until the PMs showed up, opened the housing, BANG! the TSs were back . . . and of course, chasing the PMs!

[Tengai]

I'm brand new to the purple Martin thing.
I did manage a 50 nest box bluebird trail years ago in nj. Started with my sons Cub Scout project and maintained it for many years had bb ts and other native birds over the years. We Moved last June to a house with 4 1/2 acres with existing bird houses placed too close for bb but far enough spacing for ts to overrun the property
My guess going on for years
I paired and space boxes 100 yards apart put up a Martin rig 30 feet from 1 pair which has bb in one and ts the other. I've had minimal interference from either with the martins and now have eggs in at least 5-6 cavities with more on the way.
I guess what I'm saying is it's possible to get martins with a high ts population
The ts and bb were building laying eggs before the martins arrived

[Matt F.]

I fully embrace the Drew Protocol or the tree swalow emergency protocol. It worked for me years ago, but I encourage moderation in the placement of additional blue bird housing. If you have multiple acres, you can space them judiciously as recomended(100 yards apart), but don't go overboard.

Great mentioning that Ed.
Dan Drew's protocol has definitely helped a lot of folks.
For those that may be unfamiliar, here it is:
https://www.purplemartin.org/uploads/me ... cy-377.pdf

[Steve G]

I really appreciate all your help with this. After 5 years of trying and now finally one nesting pair, I don't want this opportunity lost. I had the Dan drew protocol in place and it worked great until a couple days ago. I think the TS babies have left or the other TS nest have also left. I am out of town for a couple days, when I get back I am getting rid of these pests.

[randyM]

Steve, what is your plan to "get rid of or eradicate these TS pests"? It would be good if you can entice the TS pair to nest closer to the ground in a single unit, but other than blocking all unoccupied nest cavities in your PM housing and putting up such an alternative nest box (which may or may not work), I'm not sure what other legal options you have. I'm not suggesting that you have ultimate plans to truly "eradicate" the problem TS pair, as you stated earlier, as they are protected by Federal law in the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 which states migratory birds such as TS (and hundreds of other bird species) cannot be harmed or killed, nor can their nests (especially those with eggs) be destroyed...doing so can result in fines and possible jail time. House sparrows and starlings are not protected by this treaty as they are invasive non-native, mostly non-migratory species. Does your nesting PM pair have eggs and, if so, are they incubating yet? Has your other PM pair claimed a cavity for nesting yet? If you temporarily block all cavities except 1 or 2 in your PM housing, it is possible the TS will try to claim the 1 or 2 cavities you leave open and run off your second PM pair. If the TS and PM seem to be getting along and have called a truce, perhaps it may be best to let them co-exist in the same housing this year, given at least one PM pair apparently has already claimed residency in your housing. The Drew Protocol does emphasize the need to closely follow the listed protocol "if you've been unsuccessful in attracting PM to your site", and it appears you already have PMs using your site, so the protocol does not necessarily need to be implemented in this situation, especially if your PM pair has eggs and has begun incubation and the PM and TS seem to get along for the most part. I know from personal experience the agony of patiently waiting years for a PM colony to get established on your personal site and understand you concerns of possibly losing your infant colony. The good news for you is that some PMs like your site and are nesting, and that's the biggest hurdle to overcome in getting a new colony established. Best of luck to you!

[Steve G]

Thanks Randy,
I was planning on removing any evidence of TS in the nests, like feathers, etc. and give it a full blitz effort to move them into other houses. However I like your thought...if they seem to be getting along let them cohabitation this year. I will keep you posted

[kim w.]

I too have an abundance of ts. They are not nesting in the pm house but 35' away ib a bb house. They still torment any martins that come by. Any suggestions?

[randyM]

Kim, do you have any PM decoys out in your colony and do you play the martin dawn song or daytime chatter CD? For years I watched TS chase most of the martins that visited my site. After I placed a half dozen decoys around my PM housing (some very close to the closest TS nest box)and started playing the PM CDs each day, the TS seemed to be less aggressive towards any PM that came to visit my site. I assume the TS began to accept the sight and sound of PM (although artificial) being in the colony each day, so when a real PM came to visit my site the TS would be less aggressive and somewhat passive towards PM because they were used to seeing and hearing PMs every day. I truly believe placing PM decoys and playing the CDs each day helped get my PM colony started in a area with a high density of nesting TS.

[kim w.]

Yes to both questions. At least there not quite as aggressive as the bb which are not a problem at the moment. Have a sy female that has been here since Monday. She had brought in several males but they don't hang around long