VERY FIRST Nest Check Question - New Colony

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handyman315
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:03 am
Location: SW Ohio
Martin Colony History: Colony established May 20, 2017 after three unsuccessful years. Persistent and aggressive Tree Swallows plagued the site, but beyond learning - and practicing - to control them, was the return in 2017 of a 2016-SY-M previously unable to find a mate. As a handsome ASY-M, he brought along two females and a swagger that soon put the Tree Swallow issue to rest. As the anchor pair, he and his mate hatched all six of their eggs into fat and healthy babies into what settled in to be a three-pair, flourishing new colony with up to 11 birds total, including 3 SY-M trouble makers.

Regarding that FIRST nest check, cannot locate an answer in older Forum posts . . . just that you ole pros say do it, do it, do it. I will . . . but . . .

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I thought I could be brave and DO this first nest check, but . . . I'm terrified of doing ANYTHING to upset my new, and still arriving PMs at this BRAND NEW COLONY. Yes, I know that the PMs are supposed to "tolerate" nest checks but but

:shock:

Here are the facts:

The first three "core" birds just arrived May 20, and have stayed. With one more arrival, the three pair almost immediately began nest building, including leaf harvesting up until TODAY, when most - not all - nest building slowed or stopped. BUT more PMs keep arriving - I'm up to NINE birds now, with two arriving today, and after three years of very little happening, I'm ecstatic!

Leave in the afternoon to hunt and eat? Heck no! There are some birds here ALL the time . . . and I'm loving it . . . but just thinking of turning that winch handle petrifies me! HALP!

So really, can I - should I - wait a few more days on the first nest check?
2023-42 Nests, 197 Eggs/Babies
2022-48 Nests Fledged 203
2021-43 Nests Fledged 185
2020-31 Nests Fledged 133, three early deaths due to cold & rain
2019-19 Nests Fledged 84
2018-11 Nests Fledged 48, ASY-M Arrived April 6, Despite Snow & Cold, Joined Soon by Mate & Two Adult Pairs
2017-3 Nests Fledged 13, FIRST-YEAR LANDLORD! Resident SY-M from 2016 Returned (as ASY-M) on May 20. At Least 11 Adult Residents
2016 Late-Arriving SYs, Resident Lone SY-M
2015-14 Many Visits
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Kuemic
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Topeka, KS
Martin Colony History: 2015 1 pair, 2 eggs destroyed by HOSP
2016 1 pair, 2 fledged, HOSP 46
2017 1 pair, 5 fledged, HOSP 14
2018 daily visitors, HOSP 12
2019 1 pair, 2 fledged, HOSP 14
2020 1pair, 5 fledged, HOSP 17
2021 2 pair, 7 fledged, HOSP 21
2022 3 pair, 12 fledged, HOSP 18
2023 8 pair, 35 fledged, HOSP 16
2024 13 pair, 55 fledged, HOSP 11

Congratulations! LOL, it is nerve wracking for me everytime, but these birds tolerate a lot!!!

We've had to lower the Trio house quite a few times already, either for approaching storms, or to remove trapped sparrows. While our pair was nest building, had to lower the house to remove a sparrow, waited until closer to noon. Had no idea both birds were still "cuddling". The female comes screaming out, then our male tried to exit fast but got his wing trapped. My husband had to gently grab him and maneuver him out of the crescent opening. Romeo was screaming the whole time, let him go, off he flew, and we thought he'd never come back....but he didn't skip a beat and came in that evening like clockwork with the female. We have since installed wing entrapment guards.

They have 5 eggs now, and we've checked the nest at 2 eggs, 4, then 5! Anytime we have to lower the house, we check the nest.

We always talk to them as we're approaching the house, lightly tap the pole. The SY pair usually dive bombs us :grin:

It will be fine handyman, just wait till the afternoon to do so, to avoid interrupting egg laying!!!! --Michelle
Michelle in Topeka
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ToyinPA
Posts: 2227
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: PA/Avis
Martin Colony History: The 1972 St. Agnes flood wiped out all the Martins in my area. One day, in 1997-98, 5 or 6 Martins landed on the power wires crossing my back yard. I had no house for them. They kept coming back day after day. We got a martin house a few weeks later & they have been coming back every year since. I average 12-15 pair per year.

You can do this & must do this. Michelle gave you good advice.

Talk to them as you approach the house. They'll get used to you. We tap the pole, then lower it. They take off. We do the check as fast as we can, while they're flying around or sitting on wires above us watching. Tonight I had a female stay in her nest. I picked her up, held her to check 3 nests & then put her back in her nest. As soon as you raise the house they come back.

Keep records on which cavity has a nest, which gourd, house, etc. As you do nest checks you'll also record egg laying (some hide them under green leaves, so check closely), hatching, etc. This allows you to know what cavity you have pairs, eggs, chicks, etc.

Toy in PA
PMCA Member
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DebA
Posts: 1941
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 7:43 am
Location: Pratt County/Kansas
Martin Colony History: Start 2009 with one pair. Upgraded from S&K houses to two Trendsetter 12's with gourds beneath in 2013. I have experienced job, pet, and parental losses since '13. The Purple Martins lift my spirits and remind me how life continues forward by flying their little selves from Brazil back to my yard. As one forum person once told me, chin up DebA, look at the martins. Danger all around but yet they soar in the sky without a care in the world.

Do it! Lol. I hope you have done it by now and then you will know things are good. Tonight I sold a pickup. Dad and Dad's friend were checking it all over and took it for a test drive. Wife and two boys stayed here. Ages 8 and 2. So...I dropped a house. The older boy took over cranking the winch down. When he saw eggs, I don't have babies yet, he gasped and said baby bird eggs!! Then he started to remove house doors. I allowed him but was hovering. Then he said, there's a bird still in there! He started to close the door and I reopened and talked to her. They stared a minute and then we closed her back up. Unfortunately I was able to show him a House Sparrow nest. The city kids loved our place and I loved talking martins to anyone!

So start those checks and they will quickly get to know you. They just seem to understand you are helping. Do it! Lol.
Deb
PMCA MEMBER
Pratt County, Kansas
2016 34 PAIR
2015 27 PAIR
2014 23 PAIR
2013 13 PAIR
2012 6 PAIR
2011 4 PAIR
2010 2 PAIR
2009 1 PAIR
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handyman315
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:03 am
Location: SW Ohio
Martin Colony History: Colony established May 20, 2017 after three unsuccessful years. Persistent and aggressive Tree Swallows plagued the site, but beyond learning - and practicing - to control them, was the return in 2017 of a 2016-SY-M previously unable to find a mate. As a handsome ASY-M, he brought along two females and a swagger that soon put the Tree Swallow issue to rest. As the anchor pair, he and his mate hatched all six of their eggs into fat and healthy babies into what settled in to be a three-pair, flourishing new colony with up to 11 birds total, including 3 SY-M trouble makers.

Nest checks done! Whew! Still made me nervous and I hurried.

No eggs, unless I missed some under the leaves in one nest but don't think so. Logging results on Excel spreadsheet, but the nest check leads to another question:

Why are so many of my birds/pairs building in more than one gourd? Related: Why do some pairs go in the same gourd at night, others which appear equally bonded, go in separate gourds?

Reaction of the PMs to my nest check? Mostly ho-hum, but one interesting thing occurred. My darned S&K Mfg. gourd pole is bending in this steady Ohio wind, and even slightly rotating the entire rack. As it went back up it rotated maybe 15 degrees from where it had been, aggravated me but did not want to mess with it anymore with the PMs returning. Clearly I bonded with one of my PMs when he was here last year as a SY-M (who couldn't find a mate) but now again this year in all his regal ASY-M blackness we are still clearly "buds". How do we bond? I sit on the patio and cluck to him, he sits in exactly the same - closest to me - place. After the slight rotation, he moved to the NEXT space closer to me. :grin:

Thanks for all the nest check advice. Thought I could remain "cool" and just do it, but as "my family" suddenly got bigger than even my best first-year expectations, I relapsed. :oops:
2023-42 Nests, 197 Eggs/Babies
2022-48 Nests Fledged 203
2021-43 Nests Fledged 185
2020-31 Nests Fledged 133, three early deaths due to cold & rain
2019-19 Nests Fledged 84
2018-11 Nests Fledged 48, ASY-M Arrived April 6, Despite Snow & Cold, Joined Soon by Mate & Two Adult Pairs
2017-3 Nests Fledged 13, FIRST-YEAR LANDLORD! Resident SY-M from 2016 Returned (as ASY-M) on May 20. At Least 11 Adult Residents
2016 Late-Arriving SYs, Resident Lone SY-M
2015-14 Many Visits
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Mhoover
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:30 am
Location: Indiana/Monticello - White County
Martin Colony History: Started with 2 pair in 2014 - 7 eggs -7 fledged

Are you using the S&K 1.9 inch round pole or the triangular aluminum pole?
2017-5 pair
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged

PMCA Member
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Archer
Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Manitoba/Altona
Martin Colony History: six pair in 2014, have grown to 52 pairs in 2017.

I was going to suggest not doing it this early in the nesting cycle, no reason to. Its too early for eggs as you say they just arrived on the 20th, however since you have already done it, good for you! Be careful about changing orientation of the gourds, that could cause bad things to happen. I read your other post about your pole bending. How many gourds do you have up? How many will be used. If there is a large difference, maybe you could take some off to reduce the weight, add them back if needed. Since you did not like the guy wire, what about a 2x4 support on the downwind side. You would need to install predator guard on that brace, but that is doable.
2011- first year trying, a few visitors.
2012-One ASY pair, raised two young, lots of subby visitors. So thankfull.
2013-daily subby visits.
2014-Six SY pairs
2015-18 pair, 83 fledglings
2016-36 pair, 147 fledglings
2017-52 pairs, 192 fledglings.
2018-60 pair, 246 fledglings.
2019-59 pair, 238 fledglings.
2020-62 pair.
2021-65 pair.
2022-63 pair.
2023-60 pair
2024-62 pair
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ToyinPA
Posts: 2227
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: PA/Avis
Martin Colony History: The 1972 St. Agnes flood wiped out all the Martins in my area. One day, in 1997-98, 5 or 6 Martins landed on the power wires crossing my back yard. I had no house for them. They kept coming back day after day. We got a martin house a few weeks later & they have been coming back every year since. I average 12-15 pair per year.

handyman315 wrote:Nest checks done! Whew! Still made me nervous and I hurried.

No eggs, unless I missed some under the leaves in one nest but don't think so. Logging results on Excel spreadsheet, but the nest check leads to another question:

Why are so many of my birds/pairs building in more than one gourd? Related: Why do some pairs go in the same gourd at night, others which appear equally bonded, go in separate gourds?

Reaction of the PMs to my nest check? Mostly ho-hum, but one interesting thing occurred. My darned S&K Mfg. gourd pole is bending in this steady Ohio wind, and even slightly rotating the entire rack. As it went back up it rotated maybe 15 degrees from where it had been, aggravated me but did not want to mess with it anymore with the PMs returning. Clearly I bonded with one of my PMs when he was here last year as a SY-M (who couldn't find a mate) but now again this year in all his regal ASY-M blackness we are still clearly "buds". How do we bond? I sit on the patio and cluck to him, he sits in exactly the same - closest to me - place. After the slight rotation, he moved to the NEXT space closer to me. :grin:

Thanks for all the nest check advice. Thought I could remain "cool" and just do it, but as "my family" suddenly got bigger than even my best first-year expectations, I relapsed. :oops:
Congrats on your first nest check :).

They build in different gourds because they haven't decided which one they want. Some will build 2-3 nests & even lay eggs in all of them. Doesn't happen a lot, but does happen. I had an SY female that built 2 nests & laid eggs in both last year. I just watched to see which nest she slept in & moved the eggs to that nest.

I agree with Archer about reducing the weight on your gourd pole. The last thing you want is for it to come crashing down. Also the orientation is very important. If it were to rotate too much it could confuse the parents. I would start a new post about it & I'm sure someone here will have suggestion on how to prevent it from rotating.

Toy in PA
PMCA Member
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handyman315
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:03 am
Location: SW Ohio
Martin Colony History: Colony established May 20, 2017 after three unsuccessful years. Persistent and aggressive Tree Swallows plagued the site, but beyond learning - and practicing - to control them, was the return in 2017 of a 2016-SY-M previously unable to find a mate. As a handsome ASY-M, he brought along two females and a swagger that soon put the Tree Swallow issue to rest. As the anchor pair, he and his mate hatched all six of their eggs into fat and healthy babies into what settled in to be a three-pair, flourishing new colony with up to 11 birds total, including 3 SY-M trouble makers.

All the advice and comments are dead-on accurate, and at the source of a few things keeping me from really enjoying my first-year colony.

I started another post on the pole bending and will start another post on the rotating. Already got great ideas on bending solutions. I've used some (strong) duct tape to stop the post from rotating, but the rack still wants to rotate slightly, taking the pull cable and top pulley around with it. All and all a real aggravation in an otherwise fantastic fourth year (first with nesting). :|

Yes, I knew that rotation was not a good thing, could even sense/see it in the returning birds last night. It bothered me. That was behind telling the story of how my anchor ASY-M moved one perch closer to stay nearest to me, and looking straight at me. :)

I have 16 gourds up; opened the last four yesterday afternoon. Yes, in the wind it is a heck of a load even for my round, 2-3/8" S&K Mfg. pole. It will even hold EIGHT more! Not doing that this year. Using the better-designed, angle aluminum S&K rack. Gourds held on with cross members, and quick removal cotter pins. Vinyl sliding inserts for the hole. Really a great design, but the pole is withering under the load.

Love the answers to building nests in multiple gourds; thought that was what was going on but my "landlord worry" had that nagging thought that the rotation thing might somehow be causing it. Went from three years of very little interest to PM competition for housing this year, almost a frenzy at times as they squabble over certain houses . . . love to watch them occasionally steal each others' sticks . . . like they build such a great nest anyway! :lol: My anchor male and his mate have built in three at least . . . and spend the night in three (maybe more) different gourds. I wanna think they really like the pine straw this year . . . until they drag in big, long muddy streamers of "stuff". :roll: Loved ToyinPA's moving eggs story . . . sort of a human cowbird for good! :P

Thanks for all the first-year congrats. I've tried to implement the advice and good ideas in this Forum; everything just all started to "click" at once this year, with my returning SY-M, now ASY-M, as a strong anchor bird. Usually the last to go to bed, and studiously watches others return at night, clearly BMOC (Big Man On Campus)! :lol:

Thanks again.
2023-42 Nests, 197 Eggs/Babies
2022-48 Nests Fledged 203
2021-43 Nests Fledged 185
2020-31 Nests Fledged 133, three early deaths due to cold & rain
2019-19 Nests Fledged 84
2018-11 Nests Fledged 48, ASY-M Arrived April 6, Despite Snow & Cold, Joined Soon by Mate & Two Adult Pairs
2017-3 Nests Fledged 13, FIRST-YEAR LANDLORD! Resident SY-M from 2016 Returned (as ASY-M) on May 20. At Least 11 Adult Residents
2016 Late-Arriving SYs, Resident Lone SY-M
2015-14 Many Visits
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DebA
Posts: 1941
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 7:43 am
Location: Pratt County/Kansas
Martin Colony History: Start 2009 with one pair. Upgraded from S&K houses to two Trendsetter 12's with gourds beneath in 2013. I have experienced job, pet, and parental losses since '13. The Purple Martins lift my spirits and remind me how life continues forward by flying their little selves from Brazil back to my yard. As one forum person once told me, chin up DebA, look at the martins. Danger all around but yet they soar in the sky without a care in the world.

You are too cute I gotta say. Lol. I am so glad you dropped the rack and did it. I knew you wouldn't have eggs this early but wanted you to get past the fear of running them off. I do believe you are right about your big man on campus being the same bird. That it is the same bird. Congrats to the four letter word status as a new landlord. FRET. Always something to fret about but that makes you offer a great place for them!
Deb
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