Late or Lost ???

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Hanover Bill
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania/Hanover Township
Martin Colony History: 2009 & 10 - 0
2011 & 12 - Visitors
2013 - 2 pr. fledged 9
2014 - 3 pr. fledged 13
2015 - 7 pr. fledged 27
2016 - 15 pr. fledged 72

I would be interested to know opinions on causes for the very late returns in some areas, mine being one of them, (South Western Pa.) I don't have any returning Martins yet, and even though some sites are now getting Martins, the return has been way behind the norms.

Do we simply chalk this up to delays due to a cold spring, or could certain migration routes have been more seriously effected by the weather.

I would be interested to know what everyone thinks about this.

Hanover Bill.
2009 & 10 - 0
2011 & 12 - Visitors
2013 - 2 pr. fledged 9
2014 - 3 pr. fledged 13
2015 - 7 pr. fledged 27
2016 - 15 pr. fledged 72
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ToyinPA
Posts: 2227
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: PA/Avis
Martin Colony History: The 1972 St. Agnes flood wiped out all the Martins in my area. One day, in 1997-98, 5 or 6 Martins landed on the power wires crossing my back yard. I had no house for them. They kept coming back day after day. We got a martin house a few weeks later & they have been coming back every year since. I average 12-15 pair per year.

Bill:
I have 4 back so far. Only saw 1 yesterday & 1 this morning so far.

I would say the weather has played a major roll in migration this year. Many bad storms in the deep south, a blizzard in the north, lack of southerly winds, etc. Timewise my latest scout date was April 10th in 2013.

I think we should see more arrive soon, as the weather gets better. We should have southerly winds the next 3 days, so hopefully that will push them north. Also I saw reports, of many ASY's, just entering the southern states a few days ago. So yep they are running later this year.

Unless something major took place in Brazil or Peru or on their way here, they will eventually arrive.

Toy in PA
PMCA Member
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Ed Svetich-WI
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Brooks, Wi (McGinnis Lake)
Martin Colony History: 24 Super and Excluder Gourds on two gourd racks, all SREH. Full occupancy. My philosophy is to maximize fledge % with existing cavities rather than adding gourds to grow colony, thus providing opportunities for new colony expansion. Fledge over 100 nestlings yearly from 24 gourds. Band nestlings in cooperation with state university. 2019 Adendum: Reduced colony size to 12 gourds to focus on more intensive management regimen.

Some years they are early, some years they are late. I'm not being flippant. Weather has been a roller coaster this spring. Maybe that is the issue. My returning ASY martins have arrived anywhere from March 29th to April 25th. This year they returned on April 3rd, well within the expected window.My returning barn swallows have a 14 day range for returning. They have yet to return.Tree swallows return anywhere from March 17th to April 11. This year they returned March 22nd. We don't have the same questions about tree swallows or barn swallows. Maybe because we are not as invested in those species. Nature is not an exact science and we may be putting too much importance on what early or late is.Look long term and arrival will even out. I prefer later arrivals. The weather is usually less stressful on arriving martins. If they were too early, we would be concerned about cold and snow.

Relax and have a good year.

Ed
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~Ray~Gingerich
Posts: 2122
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Delaware/Dover

I think it's the wind patterns, have noticed a lot of east to west winds just above south America and gulf area, also in eastern states north west winds and east to west. The south west winds have been of short duration.
~Ray~ Gingerich
1999 1pair, 2006 2 pair, 2008 2 pair,
2009 23 pair, 2010 39 pair, 2011 67 pair,
2012 115 pair, 2013 160 pair,
2014 152 pair, 2015 174 pair, 2016 178 pair
2017 187 pair, 2018 200 pair, 2019 171pair
2020 233 pair
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rhondilynne
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:24 pm
Location: Travis County, Texas USA

I live in Central Texas and have had Martins before, only not here. I had them in Southeast Texas. I have a new 12 gourd house, fresh pine straw in each, and even a songbird magnet calling for them to come to my house. So far, I haven't seen any birds. I wonder if I had it installed too late for my area. I know there are birds around, but not around me.

Do any of you have any ideas what my problem might be?
Rhondilynne, just outside of Austin, Texas. Thanks.
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John Evans
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:56 pm
Location: Cocoa Beach Florida

Rhondilynne , sometimes it may take a year or more before martins will see and recognize your housing. Hang in there. there is still time to attract later ASY and SY birds.

To Bills question, My tree swallows showed up 3 weeks early. (Feb. 19) Barnies last week in March which is about 3 weeks early, Martins early April, which is about 2 weeks late so I don't know. Why is it only just the martins (insectivores) in my area that are running behind this year? Later breeding opportunity last year? Oh The questions I have. Something may have happened to the earliest arrival birds in Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania and it's probably weather related.
I have martins now, not as many at this time last year but time will tell..

John
PMCA Member
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Doug Martin - PA
Posts: 1988
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:47 am
Location: Pennsylvania/Fombell
Martin Colony History: First pair in 2009 after 28 years of trying. 3 pairs 2010, 17 pairs 2011 and 35-45 pairs since. Many additional colonies are now springing up around mine in an area once completely void of Martins. I offer 50 compartments at my site consisting of primarily Excluder II gourds on Gemini racks. Also a wooden T-14. I utilize electric fence type predator guards on the base of the poles. Supplemental feeding is crucial in maintaining my colony. I platform feed throughout the season as needed. My site tends to be a stop over point for additional birds as they migrate further north.

Bill you are fine.

Look at 2012 when my colony was the same size and age as yours. See my date of arrival for that year versus the rest of the state.
My first bird was the 9th of april. The first in PA?,....... March 9th.

Then consider they are a bit late this year as well.

you should see something this week and maybe even tomorrow. I have 30 the younger site next to me has 5.

The younger they are the later they return,

Doug
Supplemental feeding plays a major role in Western Pennsylvania. Finally got my 1st pair in 2009 after 28 years of effort. The colony has grown quickly to 45 pairs that I care for. Many new colonies have now sprung up around me in the past few years as well. Where there was none.... there is many.
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D Little
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: PA/Felton
Martin Colony History: 3 T14 houses and 12 gourd...gourd rack.
2019 52 nesting pairs

Hey Bill,

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, my birds showed 12 days later this year when compared to last year, I'm still light in numbers compared to last year this time. With the weather forecast this week I think this will be a good week to load up on arrivals.

Regards
Donnie
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mike2656
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:07 am
Location: West Grove, PA
Martin Colony History: 2013 1 Breeding pair, eggs pinned by HS. And the war began!
2014 Nothing
2015 1 Breeding pair. 4 hatchlings
2016 Cold wiped out Martins
2017 Nothing

I think (hope?) the next two weeks for PA will the turning point. I had to plug the holes on the house because the bluebirds were thinking of moving up!

And thanks to family and friends, I am now a 12-gourd rack owner.

After the disastrous Spring of 2016....I remain hopeful.
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Rediwill
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:06 pm
Location: fredericksburg, va
Martin Colony History: 2016 6/1 Pole put up late due to HOA . Had visitor birds but no pairs that stayed.
2017 3/1 visitor birds but no pairs that stayed.
2018 3/1 visitor birds but no pairs that stayed.
2019 3/1 visitor birds but no pairs that stayed. Brothers Martins didn’t show up at all at his pole 10 miles away.
2020 7/30 Had 3 pairs, 1st- 5 eggs/ 2nd hatched 2 fledged, 2nd - 5 eggs/ 2-5 hatched fledging. 3rd formed late July and no nest built.
2021 3/1 no pairs returned. One lone male hung out few days then left. Weather was bad.
2022 6/1 one pair all four eggs that hatched fledged. I’ve had 6-8 visitors.
2023 6/15 Eleven pairs 4-6 babies per nest. 51 babies total hatched. Will start fledging July 4th until end of July. I am in total shock.....Wow

I am in the same boat. I have martins at colonies within 36 miles but the martin colonies around me withing 15 miles are all empty that I know of and have driven by to see. I think that perhaps the groups of martins for my 30 mile radius must have been held up in the weather. They are late based on the past reports. most should of been here by 4/1. There was some noted in the past though arriving 4/10. I will be worried when it is May 15th and I have no martins stopping by. I think as other posters have said that the weather will push some up north and over the next 2 weeks of better weather we should all see more. I of course hoping to start a colony after having late visitors last year will be counting on the sub adult martins arriving over the next 4-10 weeks. Crossing my fingers.


Fredericksburg, va here. 22407
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handyman315
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 11:03 am
Location: SW Ohio
Martin Colony History: Colony established May 20, 2017 after three unsuccessful years. Persistent and aggressive Tree Swallows plagued the site, but beyond learning - and practicing - to control them, was the return in 2017 of a 2016-SY-M previously unable to find a mate. As a handsome ASY-M, he brought along two females and a swagger that soon put the Tree Swallow issue to rest. As the anchor pair, he and his mate hatched all six of their eggs into fat and healthy babies into what settled in to be a three-pair, flourishing new colony with up to 11 birds total, including 3 SY-M trouble makers.

Despite reliable Scout reports in my vicinity of SW Ohio, I've seen one PM (ASY-M) this season, and his visit - about a week ago - was so fleeting I'm beginning to think it was imagined. As a retiree, watching birds is what I do . . . and babysit my granddaughter who is already a budding birder.

As a wannabe landlord entering my fourth year, who can relax? Despite my 70+ age, I feel like a kid waiting for Santa, i.e., there is not much else that can be done and the waiting is killin' me.
2023-42 Nests, 197 Eggs/Babies
2022-48 Nests Fledged 203
2021-43 Nests Fledged 185
2020-31 Nests Fledged 133, three early deaths due to cold & rain
2019-19 Nests Fledged 84
2018-11 Nests Fledged 48, ASY-M Arrived April 6, Despite Snow & Cold, Joined Soon by Mate & Two Adult Pairs
2017-3 Nests Fledged 13, FIRST-YEAR LANDLORD! Resident SY-M from 2016 Returned (as ASY-M) on May 20. At Least 11 Adult Residents
2016 Late-Arriving SYs, Resident Lone SY-M
2015-14 Many Visits
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Okie
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:26 pm
Location: Claremore, OK
Martin Colony History: 2016 Informed landlord now Have 2 pair returning from 2015 That is a miracle. Hoping for a very successful year, sparrow population on decline.
First house was plastic with crescent holes Had martins within a few days. Ignorant landlord gradually lost them
Then got Trio House and still lost most of them. Lots of sparrows

handyman315 wrote:Despite reliable Scout reports in my vicinity of SW Ohio, I've seen one PM (ASY-M) this season, and his visit - about a week ago - was so fleeting I'm beginning to think it was imagined. As a retiree, watching birds is what I do . . . and babysit my granddaughter who is already a budding birder.

As a wannabe landlord entering my fourth year, who can relax? Despite my 70+ age, I feel like a kid waiting for Santa, i.e., there is not much else that can be done and the waiting is killin' me.
I'm retired too and spend much of my day watching. I hear you. I was there not seeing even one until 3 came in 1 week later than last year. Now I see some visitors but my one lone male is all that stays. Last year he never attracted any more. I hope he's better at it this year. He looks so lonely. I try to keep him company but I don't have any feathers & am stuck to the ground level. So limited :lol:
Okie
PMCA member
2016 Started with 2 pair, 1 pair abandoned after HOSP destroyed eggs
1 pair= 6 eggs, 6 fledged
2017 1 pair so far, But they abandoned before nest complete for ?reason? Now Bridless and joined the Wannabes
2018 One pair ASY male SY female 5 eggs, 5 fledged
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