Tree Swallow Question

[James Strickland FL]

Will Tree Swallows run off Martins? I have 2 that are going in and out of my gourds. I do not have any Martins that have shown up asof yet.

[Mhoover]

Yes, the tree swallows will try to run off any martins that come by. I had that happen in 2013 and they tried again in 2104 but my founding male took on the pair of tree swallows and drove the pair away from the gourd rack back to their own gourd.
Do you have a place where the tree swallows can nest instead of using the martin gourds?

[James Strickland FL]

Yes I have some boxes they can use. What do I need to do?

[Mhoover]

Block the entrances to the martin gourds. That will force the tree swallows to look elsewhere fro a place to nest. Once they accept the other location you can then open up the martin gourds.
They may still try to defend the martin gourds but they can more easily be persuaded by the incoming martins to let the martin have them.

[James Strickland FL]

Thanks I will do it. I did not know that they nested here in NC. Having to learn a new way to have Martins here in NC.

[Mhoover]

Once the martins have site fidelity they will normally take care of the tree swallow problem themselves. I have not had any problems once the martins began nesting in the gourds.

[James Strickland FL]

Well I am having to start over with a colony and I hope to get them this year, but I know that it is hard when you go from 46 pair in Florida to hope to get some here in NC. Having Bluebirds and now Tree Swallows make it a little of a challenge. But with you folks helping I am sure I will get it right.

[Hanover Bill]

Hi James;

I have had both aggressive Tree Swallows that tried to run every Martin out of town, and then I have had very docile pairs that peacefully co-existed with the Martins. Seems they are just like people, some behave well, and others behave badly.

Hanover Bill.

[avesrun]

James for unestablished sites it can be very tricky. Hanover has given you the correct course of action. There is a link on this site called the Drew Protocol or Tree Swallow Emergency plan. I'll try to find it. It's recommended to place any boxes for the TRSW 25-35 ft. on one one or both sides of the martin pole/setup area. Patience is key and it could mean waiting until subadults arrive before you open martin entrances. Basically you want the trsw committed to the boxes ie. defending, starting to nest build, . It also depends on how many trsw you're dealing with.and most importantly how much you're able to monitor the site. Bottom line do not allow trsw to nest on rack. If when you open entrances and trsw start going in/out where they shouldn't they should be closed again. Once trsw are committed to their own boxes they will actually keep other trsw from nesting on rack if the box(es) are placed within the 25-35ft. Range from rack.
With established sites asy martins are pretty good at claiming the rack each year when they return.

[James Strickland FL]

Thank You so much. I only have 2 that are hanging around and I am on the site most of the day so I can deep tabs on them.

[Chris B]

The TS in my yard do not bother the PMs at all. Sometimes they lounge on the racks but I have not observed one trying to get into a gourd. The TS have their own 1 1/2" round hole gourds on dead trees nearby.

[Carlton]

I agree. Once you get nesting martins, especially after the first season, the TS will no longer be a problem. Just be sure to provide them some gourds on 84" shepherd's hooks. Locate one of your TS gourds about 30 feet from your martin gourd rack. The TS pair will drive off any other TS that try to move into your martin gourds. Once the TS builds in those they will always return to them and not to your martin housing. Up in DE I had MAJOR TS problems the first year. I ended up plugging the martin gourd entrances with a wadded up plastic bag and watched for martins before removing them. You really have to vigilant as the TS will sometimes doubleback and try to retake a martin gourd. That first year is a real challenge until everyone starts nesting. Having said all this I still LOVE TS. Beautiful, bold, friendly and they feed down at a human level catching gnats, flies, mosquitoes etc.

[Mudflap]

I echo what everyone else is saying.

The TS's and BB's here are immediately interested in an opening as soon as it's available and have lower housing for them.

We keep our PM entrances closed until PM's arrive, and then open only a couple that face our house so we can keep better tabs on them and open more rooms as more PM's arrive.

That's a good question. I tend to take it for granted that everyone has the same problems as I do.

[handyman315]

Agree with everything Carlton said about TSs, although I am yet to have a nesting pair of PMs.

Now that I've learned how to handle the TSs (thanks to this Forum), I really can enjoy them being around. Beautiful little Swallows who can fly like a Russian Mig Fighter.

And just as Carlton said, within a day of offering them their own shepherd hook gourd, they started nest building this year. Last year they aggravated my more timid SY PMs until I learned to jerk down the TS gourd and move them. Continue to have three this year; what's up with that?

Still have a Sparrow problem, but not opening housing until PMs show helps a lot.

Just really need more PMs to start showing up; I'm ready with ample housing up and more available if needed.

[Carlton]

I am enjoying reading everyones' comments.

When I first put up a gourd rack a pair of TS moved in and even though I provided other housing they would not move. I removed their gourd from the rack and hung it on a shepherd's hook right at the base of the martin rack. They went right in. Twice a day I moved their hook with gourd a few feet until they were about 30 feet from the waiting martin house. Worked great. They dove at me but accepted their moving house with no problems.

[bootjack farm]

In past years I encouraged TS to nest around my PM housing. I opened only the closest BB house (within 40 ft.) until it was occupied by TS. Keeping other housing closed until this happened kept TS out of the PM housing.

Fast forward 9 years and I have yet to have a nesting pair...only bachelors. My mentor Ed Pace, suggested that having so many TS near my PM housing may be scaring off the females. The males seem to handle the TS quite well. He recommended I remove all the TS housing near the PMs until I have an established PM colony. I have done that this year. Fingers crossed.

[James Strickland FL]

Thanks everyone for your help. I put a house about 25 feet from the Martins houses and will see if they move in. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[handyman315]

bootjack farm,

Very interesting post. My fourth year and yet to have a nesting pair of PMs. What you - Ed Pace - say caught my eye . . . clearly had a resident SY-M last year and try as he might, a female would not move in. He musta showed a half dozen around (with me silently cheering him on) . . . one was a real beauty . . . but none stayed. By then, I think the TSs had pretty much settled into their relocated gourd on a shepherd hook, but they could very well have continued to harass the visiting female PMs.

Thanks for the post, will pay close attention this season . . . still have only seen one ASY-M and the visit was so brief, I'm doubting myself.

[James Strickland FL]

Well I took the advice of Carl and closed all the gourds and put up a BB Box 25 ft way and they started looking at it today.

[Carlton]

Let us know what you observe, Jim.

I KNOW that there is still going to be conflict for awhile but the plan you are on will work. You just have to hang in there and be very patient. It will be very frustrating. You might luck out and get some ASY martins that tend to fight back more than the SY's. Once the TS REALLY CLAIMS your birdhouse/gourds on shepherd's hooks and builds a nest, with feathers, it is probably safe to start opening SOME of your gourds on the martin rack. They will be so busy laying their own eggs and protecting their space that they will finally leave the martin rack pretty much alone. You have to be tough though and determined. Those TS will try your every nerve for awhile.