fly, gnat, fleas & nest mite control

[rickchilli]

I just joined the forum but have raised martins for years. I have had a lot of luck with use of Basic H / water mixture 1/10 to control both fleas/gnats and nest mites. has anyone else used insectiside soap to control these varments? Never hurts my martins and they seem to love its benefits. Rick

[BW Fowler]

Rick,

I've never heard of it before. Seems like an established cleaning solution. How often do you use it and how is it applied?

BW

[rickchilli]

BW
I put about 3-4 oz of Shaklee Basic H in a 36 oz plant sprayer and fill the bottle with water. I usually do a complete nest check of the house (so I don't bounce back and forth with soap and checking) then I go back and spray the nests, compartments and and exterior of the house with the soap solution. Then if it looks like the house has any bug problems I'll lower the house during the week and spray the exterior of the house again. can't hurt the birds unless you get it in their eyes or mouths.

[BW Fowler]

Thanks Rick! Have great year.
BW

[rickchilli]

BW
I'm having some trouble following this forum and I've been out of town for a few days. I started raising (landlording) martins clear back in the 70s and 80s and took the purple martin news paper which eventually became nature society news (not as good). At our old house of 27 years the trees grew up and took over my yard. I had 2 trio 12s and gave them away to someone in the country who now raises sparrows and starlings. what a mistake.

I had remembered several articles from landlords about using concentrated soap solution to rid martin housing of mite and buffalo gnats. They said the soap solution cleanses the bugs to death. They said the soap removes essential oils from their skin and cuts form on their bodies causing them to get infected and die. From my observations when I spray the houses and the soap covers the mites they instantly stop moving and die. I looks to me like they sufficate and stick to the house.

we moved to a larger house in 2007 and it has a large green space behind it with wide open flying space. I put up a trio 24 castle and the martens were back instantly. I've been using the soap solution ever since and works well. I even spray my hands when messing with the houses to protect me from the mites. I usually feel them crawling on my hands before i see them and dousing them with the soap.

I baby my martins and they love it. their actions lead me to any problems in my nests. I can actually see the martin houses and martins from any window on the back side of the house.

I'll tell you more later but this is already to long. by the way I keep paint can openers (with the bottle opener on the other end) at each martin house location to open housing doors that don't have holes in them. I've found out it works best for me.

[rickchilli]

Ok, I've gone back and done some research of my old martin files. back in 1982 we were all having troubles with buffalo gnats and nest mites. I ended up loosing all my chicks that year (some almost ready to fly) and we couldn't figure out what was going on or how to correct the problem. I figured the martens would not be back the next year but they did come back. Looks like the same thing is happening again.

When I started back housing martens again in 2008 the same disaster was going to repeat itself again but this time I was ready to deal with the problem. I started back that first year with 2 pairs with 9 eggs. there must have been a shortage of females that year because i had about 4 or 5 immature males that stayed in the house. all 9 chicks ended up flying.

everything was going well until we got back from vacation at the end of june. The weather had finally turned off hot, wet & humid. I lowered my castle to check the martins, expecting to see a few nest mites, but to my suprise, I found the whole house was covered with swarms of mites. But I was prepared and had ordered some Shaklee Basic H soap earlier and decided to use 3-4 oz of the soap in a 36 oz hand sprayer bottle of water.

when I pulled the house down and started the inspection I ended up feeling the mites crawling on my hands even before I saw them. I immediately began spraying the concentrated soap all over my hands and then rinsed them off with hose water. I then went back to the house to check it out and saw the tinny black mites swarming all over the house and sprayed the whole thing with the soap. I continued to spray the house for several days in a row until I couldn't see any more little black dots moving around. The martins loved being around the house after the big (little) bug kill.

I continued to spray around the house every 3 or 4 days to eliminate any straggler mites coming off the birds or nests. my spraying observations showed that any fleas or gnats flying around the house at the time of my spraying ended up landing on the house and getting stuck so it helped get rid of some of those enemies of the martins also. It seemed like several other martins showed up and stayed in the house after eliminating the nest mites.

I found some research I had done on soap solution which indicated that soft shell insects are killed by soaps on contact by paralyzing them, disrupting membranes, and affecting their growth and development.

I've been using the solution ever since with good results.

[BW Fowler]

Thanks Rick for the detailed info. Best of luck this year.
BW

[rickchilli]

no problem. hope it helps, have a great season. it sure makes the martins feel better. and whatever makes the martins feel better makes me feel better.

[John Miller]

As it seems to be working and causing no harm, that's great. However, it sounds worrisome to me to be spraying surfaces where adult martins will be getting the insecticide on their feet.

Can only tell you how I do it. well..first the PMCA. They don't endorse the use of any pesticide and recommend nest changes at 10 and 20 days. At 10 days, most martin nests have quite a few mites. A low level of mites won't harm the birds. They may even have some beneficial effect that we don't understand. Who knows.

Anyway, I use a small amount of 5% garden sevin. When the babies on average are 10 days old, about mid June in Missouri, I go through the housing and tap about one-fourth teaspoon into two sides of the nest. I try to form a line on the side of the spoon -- no, I don't snort it -- so it disperses more. I try to not get it directly in the nest bowl or on the birds, but it won't cause harm that I can detect if I accidentally do -- but I just try to use the smallest amount needed. This breaks the mite cycle and most years is adequate to keep the number of mites down through fledging.

Just be careful. Always ask when caring for martins, what could go wrong.

Did you see the "sticky" at the top of the Forum posts about the event in NW Missouri? You are pretty close. Go if you can. They even have a little hayride I think...should be a good day.
John Miller

[rickchilli]

John

this is just soapy water. never has hurt my martins and they walk on it all the time. the only reason it's called insecticide is it cleanses the soft shell bugs to death. I use to use sevin but this is so much safer for me and the birds. I always had a problem with the wind blowing the stuff all over the place. you might check out the uses and quality of basic H.

I've used it as one of the items I brush my teeth with. I also use it as one of the items I shampoo my hair. used them for years. you can also use it full strength as an insect repelant. of course we don't need to do that because we have martins. but maybe after they leave we may have to.

It's easy to use and doesn't hurt my martins and my experience with it has been great. it's all natural and safe and that's good enough for me. you ought to try it some time. I find more and more ways to use it.

Thanks,

[John Miller]

Rick

I re-read your post. Yes, you are talking about a soapy spray. This is what some gardeners use with good success and avoid using insecticides.

But what about mites in the nest material? I don't see how you'd saturate the nests enough to kill the mites without ending up with wet nests. By the time you see mites on the outside of housing, you may have what we call a "mite bloom" and likely the nests are swarming.

Now, martins will tolerate a lot of mites, and you may want to examine the nest area closely, and then if you find that eliminating the mites you see on the surface of the housing has indeed reduced the interior mites, then good. I have read that mites sometimes go to the exterior housing surface to digest their blood meal in the sun, but I've wondered if these are adult mites looking to move to a new site. I have tried to research and found so much different stuff. We do know that when very numerous they can weaken the birds and cause them to jump prematurely.

John M

[rickchilli]

thats right John I do some other things also including removing & or replacing the nest. I didn't indicate some of the other things that everyone else mentions, but I'm sure surprised that no one else has used such a simple product. That was my main reson for the question. I'd like to know what other landlord's have learned from using the stuff good or bad.

by the way i'm not only a martin fan i'm a cardinal fan to. the royals arn't a bird but i like them also.

Thanks

[rickchilli]

by the way John I see you do some work at forrest park in St. Louis. I think I remember reading an article in the Missouri consevation magazine about someone who takes care of some martins in the forest park area. did you see it? It's been some time ago so can't remember to much about it.

[John Miller]

rick

The article was about my work with the martins at Forest Park. I'm still doing it -- seem to do more public education all the time. It's all volunteer stuff. Showed the martins to a big group of 5th to 8th grade students yesterday -- very polite little kids. I almost told them to get rowdy if they wanted...but three adult teachers with them might not have appreciated that.

Keep soaping,
John M

[rickchilli]

that's great work John. I usually go to Ivan Miller's martin open house every year in Jamesport, Mo. but this year we're going to be out of town. I enjoy seeing and talking with him each year. Last year I bought 3 plastic gourds from him and I modified them to fit on my telescoping pole perch at my other martin house location up the hill from my house. I think you guys use the Trio houses at the park don't you? Did you see where I mentioned using the paint can openers with the hook on one end and the pop bottle (or beer bottle) opener on the other end to open the doors with no hole in them? those kids need to know that the rowdier you are the more the martin like you. In fact the martins can get pretty rowdy themselves.

[rickchilli]

ok BW, John, and all you other martin lovers out there, I normally wait till after a season to tell what happens at my site but someone may need to try some of these options during this season. I don't have any set procedures on using the soap to control pests but I will try to relay some of the options I've tried in the past.

I usually decide what to do based on what I see happening at my houses, what is happening with the birds, what I observe from my inspections of nests, the size of the birds etc.

I have sprayed the outside of my houses several times already because of gnats. Next time I do an inspection and there are chicks in the nests and if it's warm I'll probably start spraying the inside of the house also.

I wear a carpenters apron (that looks like bib overalls) to keep track of my equipment - pencil, door opener with hook on the end (to open blank compartment covers), inspection clipboard, soap solution, several sizes of plastic measuring cups, and paper towels etc.

When there are just eggs in the nest I just cover the eggs with a measuring cup and spray the whole inside of the compartment and nest. Let it dry for a little while, remove the measuring cup and move on to the next nest. I did a test one year and sprayed the 5 eggs in a nest and all eggs hatched and all chicks flew.

If the nests have small chicks in them I'll put the chicks in a measuring cup temporarily and spray the whole compartment including the nest and then put a folded paper towel on top of the nest to soak up any excess soap. Then I put the chicks back in the compartment on top of the paper towel.

You should have seen the martens react to the white paper towel in their compartment when I first started doing this. They would hang on the porch fence and raise cane with me staring at the towel in their compartment. When this happened I was still using the 6x6 compartments with the standard door opening. Eventually after the chicks kept hollering at mom and dad they went back to feeding them. Doing this, like John says, would rid the nests of mites and their eggs before the situation got worse.

You'll want to do an inventory of supplies after these nest checks and make sure you didn't leave a measuring cup on top of any eggs which I did once but I did do an inventory check and caught it. I'm sure the parents would have scolded me until I lowered the house and fixed the problem.

The funny thing was when the season was almost over I caught one of the males with one of the paper towels stuck in his entrance hole trying to pull the towel into his compartment. So I lowered the house to remove the towel and I found he had two other towels in the compartment so I removed them all. One good thing about using the paper towels is that I remove the old one and put in a new one after each spraying. This is like changing their diaper each time because the towel absorbs their droppings and helps keep their nests cleaner. I try to do the nest checks and soakings only on the warmer days or when I see something I don't like.

also like John says, once the chicks are big enough I'll chase or move them to the empty entrance compartment side so I can remove the nest in the other compartment. I'll usually soak the old nest first with the soap solution, to kill any mites and their eggs, before removing it. Soaking the nest before removal also cuts down on the dust flying all over during removal and disposal. I use aluminum salad tongs to remove the old nest for disposal and decide whether to put a partial nest back or just put down a paper towel.

Using the soap and finally removing all the old nests keeps the birds cooler and also speeds up the cleanup at season end.

By the way I think I'll try using 2 oz of shaklee basic H instead of the 3 - 4 oz in a 36 oz spray bottle to save on cost. Basic H II is what they sell now which is double strength of the old Basic H formula.

Sounds complex but works well once you get the hang of it.

I've been using the soap solution since I started back landlording in 2008.

Hope you all have a good martin season. we've had lots of bad weather so far this season. If it gets hot and humid things could really get bad.

Old Soapy