Heath gourds vs Troyer

[Steve Malone]

I have 96 Heath gourds and I bought these these 5 or 6 years ago because they resemble natural gourds and because of the price. They cost much less than a Troyer or Extruder. I've been out to Steve Kroenke's place a few times and his site is nothing short of amazing. He has alot of Troyer and Extruder gourds and his site is at capacity every year.

My colony hasn't grown in the past couple of years. It seems like I always get between 85 and 95 pairs. I have 156 cavities if you count the Coats housing that I have modified by enlarging the rooms.

I've been cleaning out the gourds from last years nesting and have found two dead martins that appear to have been been killed by owls or maybe a hawk from last year.

The Heath gourds have big holes because I have removed the knock out SREH part of the entrance hole. I'm wondering if the martins don't feel safe enough in these gourds because they are too exposed.

It's probably too late for me to change this year to another type of gourd, but maybe I can get some advice so that next year I can start transitioning into something that might attrack more martins and keep them safer.

[tonyg]

Well Steve, you have seen the Grand Masters colony and what he uses...I'd say it's time to spend a few $$$ and upgrade your housing..I hosted 112 pair last year and have added another rack for 134 cavities.. 90% of my gourds are Troyer Verticals and Horizontals..quality stuff...

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I started out with a setup as you have, but I eventually got rid of it, and raised my own gourds, and went with that. I built my own equipment, and finished my own gourds, lot of work, but not much money.

Your setup is an antique, and very hard to get it up to the standards that many martin landlords now use. If you can afford it, I would restart with:
1) gourd racks that you can raise and lower if you do not have that now
2)get larger gourds with SREH that help protect the martins from owls and starlings. Those gourds that you now have are completely unsatisfactory, they were the earliest gourds that were used (and maybe the first plastic), and should not be considered with what we know now.
3)snake and racoon (predator guards)
4)do nest checks, so that you can tell if the martins have mites, and so you can tell what kind of predation you have
5)put a wire cage around your housing to further protect from owls
6)constantly try to improve your housing

I realize that its expensive, and maybe you could start with some of the above, and gradually build a nice martin colony. But to do it right, you will need to spend $$$$. I personally prefer the Troyers horizontal. Try to make your setup look like Steve's setup

[tim414]

If I were to guess, the big holes allowed starling's to enter and kill your martins when they try to defend their cavity.

[tim414]

Add: if it were an Owl, he would have removed his dinner and you would not have found the evidence.

Hawks snatch martins off the perch. Starlings would leave the martin dead there in the cavity where it killed the martin....a snake or coon would take it's meal.....

[Steve Malone]

Starlings and sparrows don't mess with the gourds. That's the main reason I like gourds because only the martins seem to be interested in the gourds. I did order 18 Troyer gourds this morning from PMAC.

[tim414]

Starlings and sparrows don't mess with the gourds. That's the main reason I like gourds because only the martins seem to be interested in the gourds. I did order 18 Troyer gourds this morning from PMAC.

Oh, starlings do not go into round opening on a gourd????

[Steve Kroenke]

Hey Steve,

I am glad you ordered some Troyer Gourds from the PMCA! We've talked about Troyer Gourds when you've visited my martin colony and you know I like them a lot.

When you add these gourds to your martin colony, you will be able to see how the martins respond to them and you may even see some martins switch from the Heath gourds to the Troyer gourds.

I would suggest you add a handful or two of pine straw to each of the Troyer Gourds to create a pre-nest. I pack my pine straw down in the gourd and create a depression for the nest bowl. Martins will most likely add more nesting material later on, particularly leaves.

Also I would recommend you drill vent holes under the two canopies on the upper back of the gourds. I use 3/8 diameter holes that point slightly downward and these holes help to let out hot air and humidity. I also have used two 3/4 inch PVC elbows by drilling out the canopies; this is another method. You have seen these vented gourds at my colony.

I will be looking forward to hearing how your martins like the Troyer Gourds! Good luck!

Steve

[tlragsdale]

Don't know I agree with the statement that sparrows don't have an interest in gourds. I trapped about a dozen last year that were entering into Troyer horizontal gourds. (I "relocated" them.....had the nice folks at Waste Management help with their relocation).

Terry/WI

[klcretired]

Hi Steve M ,
My Martins just love the deeper Gourds and even tho I purchase the HZ Troyers which already have Deep nesting chambers , I add Tunnels w/ Wide Porches for even more Depth and protection , They make my Martins feel safe and they really Love them, also on all my gourds even the SG's I add tunnels w/ wide porches for added Protection, Below is my Post from 2008 w/ pictures on how to convert your SG's or any gourd to add tunnels w/ wide porches...hope this helps you decide Good Luck

http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... ing+gourds

[Steve Malone]

K C,

Thanks for the post. I'm going to do that next year.

[KathyF]

Steve M., if you found dead adults in your round-holed gourds, the most likely culprits were starlings. It only takes a few seconds.

[tim414]

Steve M., if you found dead adults in your round-holed gourds, the most likely culprits were starlings. It only takes a few seconds.

He stated starlings and sparrows don't mess with gourds. That's good to know. I wonder why gourds are sold with SREH's????

[KathyF]

Steve M., if you found dead adults in your round-holed gourds, the most likely culprits were starlings. It only takes a few seconds.

He stated starlings and sparrows don't mess with gourds. That's good to know. I wonder why gourds are sold with SREH's????

That's not true across all sites Tim - that's why gourds are sold with SREH's. I can't even count the number of starling nests I've found in gourds with SREH. One guy left his gourds out all winter here in MO and I found 4 starling nests in them during the spring.
When I had round-holed gourds I had starlings going in & out of them.

[Steve Malone]

I know I have a lot of people doubting my post about sparrows and starlings not nesting in my Heath gourds. All I'm saying is that I have never had them nest in MY gourds. I don't know why. Maybe because they sway in the wind more than normal. I read a long time ago that sparrows and starlings don't like nesting in a house that has a lot of movement.

I help manage a colony in Keithville for Steve Kroenke and he has crescent holes on super gourds and starlings and sparrows nest in them. I couldn't believe that a starling could even get in a crescent entrance.

I've seen starlings and sparrows go in my gourds, but I've never had one build a nest in them. And maybe starlings did kill the 2 martins from last year. I just think that a hawk or owl did it and just couldn't pull them out of the hole because it looked like they were tore up pretty good.

But this is a new year, I've already gotten in 12 Troyer gourds and have 30 more on the way. I'm looking forward to seeing what occupancy rate I have in them compared to the remaining Heath gourds. The Troyers are some fine gourds. Maybe next year I might have all 114 replaced.

[tim414]

ok

[Steve Kroenke]

Hey Steve,

Yes, we have had a few cases where starlings entered and even tried to nest in Trios and Super Gourds with crescents. But, fortunately not many.

At the satellite colony you help manage, there was one case where a starling managed to enter an un-porched Super Gourd and tried to nest. We destroyed one nest and you may have done so, too. I was stunned watching that female starling wiggle in the correct sized crescent without a porch!

We had several other cases where starlings nested in Trios with crescents and in one case we must have thrown out over a dozen eggs over a period of time! The female starling finally abandoned the cavity sometime in June. It was interesting that there were 11 pairs of martins nesting in two Trios with crescents on a multi-purpose pole and that one pair of starlings. The martins and starlings ignored each other! Bob shot the male starling.

Bob and I appreciate all your help in managing the Keithville satellite martin colony! Because of the distance, we can't check on that colony as much as we would like.

Steve