Mary,
I can email them to you.
Mark.
For the Millionth time Crescent vs Conley?
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4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Last edited by 4th Gen Martin Fan on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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threelilkids
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:11 pm
- Location: Denham Springs, La
- Martin Colony History: 2014 1 pair 3 hatched 3 fledged
2015 1 pair 5 hatched 5 fledged
2016 1 pair 5 hatched 4 fledged
2017 2 pair 8 hatched 8 fledged
2018 4 pair 15 hatched
K Thanks, In case its not in my file my email is [email protected]. Should be getting Martins in a few weeks, I'm getting soooo nerves 
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Wing entrapment guards can be attached to any type of SREH even when you cover up part of the old hole because that covered part of the entrance is not being used by the martins. Just make sure that they are attached firmly. (it may look strange to cover up part of the entrance but it works)
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Mary,
I made another porch elevator, installed it onto a S&K House with crescent entrance, took 4 self explanatory pictures, and Louise has kindly posted them to the previous post.
I think that these porch elevators are easier to make and are sturdier than the thinner aluminum ones I have made in the past.
From the 4 pictures I emailed, you will be able to see that they are attached with 1/8" X 1/8" long aluminum pop rivets. Be aware that the direction of the pop rivets is important so that the "mushroomed" part of the rivet grabs the aluminum sheet metal. Otherwise the mushroom pulls through the plastic of the S&K door.
Mark.
I made another porch elevator, installed it onto a S&K House with crescent entrance, took 4 self explanatory pictures, and Louise has kindly posted them to the previous post.
I think that these porch elevators are easier to make and are sturdier than the thinner aluminum ones I have made in the past.
From the 4 pictures I emailed, you will be able to see that they are attached with 1/8" X 1/8" long aluminum pop rivets. Be aware that the direction of the pop rivets is important so that the "mushroomed" part of the rivet grabs the aluminum sheet metal. Otherwise the mushroom pulls through the plastic of the S&K door.
Mark.
Last edited by 4th Gen Martin Fan on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
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Mhoover
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:30 am
- Location: Indiana/Monticello - White County
- Martin Colony History: Started with 2 pair in 2014 - 7 eggs -7 fledged
Mark
Have you tried to use a washer on the mushroomed end before you compress the rivet? That will spread the load out over a wider area and help prevent the plastic in the door from being spread out enough for the rivet to pull through.
Have you tried to use a washer on the mushroomed end before you compress the rivet? That will spread the load out over a wider area and help prevent the plastic in the door from being spread out enough for the rivet to pull through.
2017-5 pair
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged
PMCA Member
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged
PMCA Member
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Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
Here is how I post a photo:4th Gen Martin Fan wrote:Mary,
I give up on linking my Photobucket pictures to this post.
I can email them to you.
Mark.
Go to photobucket and select a photo by "double click the left side of the mouse"
On the lower right, "left click on IMG"...Now it should turn the block yellow and say copied
Go to PMCA, log in and start a reply or a post, you can then get ready to attach the photobucket address
"single click the right side, then click on paste (and it should copy the address to your post).
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
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jr 2
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:20 pm
- Location: ohio,proctorville(just across ohio river from huntington,west virginia)
I have had no problem with the pop riviots pulling out of the plastic on the house doors;;I used 1/8 aluminum pop riviots;;jr2
PMCA member; s 2011 2 pair fledged 3; 2012 3 asy pair,4 sy pair,2013 8 asy pair,6 sy pair;2014 19 asy pair,2 sy pair
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Louise Chambers
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6208
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 pm
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Mark, I added the photos to your post. You could not add them in the forum because they were too large - cropping won't help that. You have to use a photo editing program and resize, either to 400 x 400 pixels, to open in the post, or to 800 x 800 pixels, to open as a link.
Last edited by Louise Chambers on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Emil,
Your instructions are crystal clear.
I cropped the pictures in hopes that would solve the problem.
By the way, I would appreciate any suggestions and criticism of my porch elevators for S&K house.
I used about 1/16" clearance from the bottom edge of the crescent to the level of the porch elevator instead of flush so that there will not be any interference with the proper 1 3/16" height of the crescent.
At this point, I have not given up on crescent SREHs. But I have been very careful to keep the entrances height within recommended specifications.
In multiple mentee's houses around town the purple martins are freely accepting the crescent entrances. Even timid SYs in new sites. So far I have not had European starlings breaching my crescents and this community is inundated with European starlings. I am not naive though and am vigilant about possible breaches.
I have empathy for Mary and her concerns about the crescents. I just hope that she does not completely give up on them yet.
Mark.
Your instructions are crystal clear.
I cropped the pictures in hopes that would solve the problem.
By the way, I would appreciate any suggestions and criticism of my porch elevators for S&K house.
I used about 1/16" clearance from the bottom edge of the crescent to the level of the porch elevator instead of flush so that there will not be any interference with the proper 1 3/16" height of the crescent.
At this point, I have not given up on crescent SREHs. But I have been very careful to keep the entrances height within recommended specifications.
In multiple mentee's houses around town the purple martins are freely accepting the crescent entrances. Even timid SYs in new sites. So far I have not had European starlings breaching my crescents and this community is inundated with European starlings. I am not naive though and am vigilant about possible breaches.
I have empathy for Mary and her concerns about the crescents. I just hope that she does not completely give up on them yet.
Mark.
Last edited by 4th Gen Martin Fan on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
-
4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Mhoover,
I agree that the porch level does not have to be exactly flush to the bottom edge of the crescent. I use about 1/16"-1/8" now.
I agree that washers can strengthen the rivet's hold and are important if the mushroom part is on the plastic side. I use them on light aluminum like drip edge flashing or thin sheet aluminum.
The thicker aluminum sheet that I use from the awards store is twice as thick and holds the rivets very well.
jr 2,
I am glad that your plastic held the pop rivets. Whatever works for you.
I am not so lucky and have had them pull through. I like the head on the plastic side and the mushroom on the aluminum side.
Mhoover's idea of washers makes the pop rivet hold even better.
I agree that the porch level does not have to be exactly flush to the bottom edge of the crescent. I use about 1/16"-1/8" now.
I agree that washers can strengthen the rivet's hold and are important if the mushroom part is on the plastic side. I use them on light aluminum like drip edge flashing or thin sheet aluminum.
The thicker aluminum sheet that I use from the awards store is twice as thick and holds the rivets very well.
jr 2,
I am glad that your plastic held the pop rivets. Whatever works for you.
I am not so lucky and have had them pull through. I like the head on the plastic side and the mushroom on the aluminum side.
Mhoover's idea of washers makes the pop rivet hold even better.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
-
Mhoover
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:30 am
- Location: Indiana/Monticello - White County
- Martin Colony History: Started with 2 pair in 2014 - 7 eggs -7 fledged
Mark
I had some porches almost level with the bottom of the entrance. The martins that showed up at the end of the season seemed to have more of a problem entering them than the ones that were lowered to 1/8th of an inch below the entrance. I have reworked the flush entrances to make them lower for this year just to see if that will take care of the situation.
I had some porches almost level with the bottom of the entrance. The martins that showed up at the end of the season seemed to have more of a problem entering them than the ones that were lowered to 1/8th of an inch below the entrance. I have reworked the flush entrances to make them lower for this year just to see if that will take care of the situation.
2017-5 pair
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged
PMCA Member
2016-4 pair- 18 hatched-18 fledged
2015-1 pair -Both ASY- 6 eggs-5 fledged
2014-2 pair- 1 ASY-M/SY-F-1 ASY pair - 7 eggs-7 fledged
PMCA Member
-
4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Mary,
I do not want to lose sight of your original question.
Crescent vs. Conley II is a complicated question. I suspect that most experts have discussed this question to death.
My sister in Seguin, TX has Troyer Horizontal Gourds which were originally Conley II entrances. She immediately had problems with European starlings breaching the Conley IIs. All of her worries were solved by the Lewis SREH modification of the Conley II entrances.
If you apply Conley II plates to your S&K house it will be very difficult but not impossible to fix the Conley IIs so that starlings cannot breach them.
I was worried about the new SREHs when I returned to purple martin landlording in 2013. I have no qualms about the martins accepting crescents now as long as the height of the crescent is verified and correct. Purple martins can enter in when they are ready.
If martins came to visit your site and left, then they were not committed or ready to nest in your house.
The most important thing for this year is get your house ready.
Mark.
I do not want to lose sight of your original question.
Crescent vs. Conley II is a complicated question. I suspect that most experts have discussed this question to death.
My sister in Seguin, TX has Troyer Horizontal Gourds which were originally Conley II entrances. She immediately had problems with European starlings breaching the Conley IIs. All of her worries were solved by the Lewis SREH modification of the Conley II entrances.
If you apply Conley II plates to your S&K house it will be very difficult but not impossible to fix the Conley IIs so that starlings cannot breach them.
I was worried about the new SREHs when I returned to purple martin landlording in 2013. I have no qualms about the martins accepting crescents now as long as the height of the crescent is verified and correct. Purple martins can enter in when they are ready.
If martins came to visit your site and left, then they were not committed or ready to nest in your house.
The most important thing for this year is get your house ready.
Mark.
- Attachments
-
- S&K Porched Crescent, Side View
- S&K Porched Crescent, Side View.jpg (89.6 KiB) Viewed 4566 times
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
-
4th Gen Martin Fan
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
- Location: TN/Collierville
- Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.
Mhoover,
I would like to hear from your experiences at the end of this season.
If the purple martins liked the 1/8" difference and if starlings were able to breach.
You definitely have good things going on at your colony. 2 pair for 2014. Congratulations.
I know it feels good after the hard work and wait of your 2008-2013 seasons.
Mark.
I would like to hear from your experiences at the end of this season.
If the purple martins liked the 1/8" difference and if starlings were able to breach.
You definitely have good things going on at your colony. 2 pair for 2014. Congratulations.
I know it feels good after the hard work and wait of your 2008-2013 seasons.
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
-
Emil Pampell-Tx
- Posts: 6743
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
- Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
- Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas
My opinion is that all SREH work if:
1)they are the correct size = 1-3/16 inch tall
2)they are mounted with the correct distance to the porch
3)wing entrapment guards make them harder to learn to use and more starling resistant
Lets look at #2:
Flush to the porch is the most resistant but the hardest for a martin to learn
1/8in distance is very good but slightly easier for a martin to learn
1/4in distance is the easiest to learn but very small starlings may enter (in general, the harder it is for a martin to learn to enter, the more starling resistant it is)
The martins also choose an entrance by its location on the pole. They prefer quick easy exits to flyways. Just because they use a certain entrance may not make it the most preferable to the martins. This is especially true if you have hawk pressure, they want to quickly escape.
There may be many other minor reasons for them choosing a certain entrance such as sun direction, cavity direction, height of cavity on the pole, pressure from other martins or sparrows, etc. I do not think that anybody has all the answers yet, so we all learn daily what they like the most. I think it is mostly the landlords choice as to which to use. Wishing all the best of luck
1)they are the correct size = 1-3/16 inch tall
2)they are mounted with the correct distance to the porch
3)wing entrapment guards make them harder to learn to use and more starling resistant
Lets look at #2:
Flush to the porch is the most resistant but the hardest for a martin to learn
1/8in distance is very good but slightly easier for a martin to learn
1/4in distance is the easiest to learn but very small starlings may enter (in general, the harder it is for a martin to learn to enter, the more starling resistant it is)
The martins also choose an entrance by its location on the pole. They prefer quick easy exits to flyways. Just because they use a certain entrance may not make it the most preferable to the martins. This is especially true if you have hawk pressure, they want to quickly escape.
There may be many other minor reasons for them choosing a certain entrance such as sun direction, cavity direction, height of cavity on the pole, pressure from other martins or sparrows, etc. I do not think that anybody has all the answers yet, so we all learn daily what they like the most. I think it is mostly the landlords choice as to which to use. Wishing all the best of luck
Last edited by Emil Pampell-Tx on Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
-
threelilkids
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:11 pm
- Location: Denham Springs, La
- Martin Colony History: 2014 1 pair 3 hatched 3 fledged
2015 1 pair 5 hatched 5 fledged
2016 1 pair 5 hatched 4 fledged
2017 2 pair 8 hatched 8 fledged
2018 4 pair 15 hatched
Thanks to all of you for all your help, Mark the pics were great, thanks. I think I got it 
. I am going to use both conley and crescents. I have conleys on all my gourds however one house will have crescents and the other will have conleys, and I'll see how this goes, I will also watch for starling breaches although the starling like going to a trap on my house(I live in ). My guy got me a square pole with a winch, I was using a telescoping pole. I got everything together and have been playing with the winch, up and down 
and have been loving it. Now all I need is the martins . Can't wait, Good Luck to all this year 
. I am going to use both conley and crescents. I have conleys on all my gourds however one house will have crescents and the other will have conleys, and I'll see how this goes, I will also watch for starling breaches although the starling like going to a trap on my house(I live in ). My guy got me a square pole with a winch, I was using a telescoping pole. I got everything together and have been playing with the winch, up and down and have been loving it. Now all I need is the martins . Can't wait, Good Luck to all this year