Why Supplemental Feeding Could Lead to Ealier Arrivals.

[Chuck4]

3. Supplemental feeding is not the cure all to end all. Humans can do only so much for purple martins. Past a certain point, they are on their own as it is with all other of God's creations.

I don't think the original post meant to imply that supplemental feeding was the end all be all, merely that it could lead to consistently earlier arrivals at the colonies which offer supplemental feeding.

[KathyF]

Mike,
Thank you for the detailed accounting of what happened to the landlord in Farmington. The story apparently changed some by the time it got half way across Missouri (I'm not surprised).

But, the question I don't see addressed in your accounting; did he feed his martins?

By the way, I've never experienced that type of cavity-stuffing here....at least, not yet.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

A question that I have: Does cavity stuffing occur if you feed them when they are cold and hungry? I have never seen it here, but I have fed my martins about 6 years ago, and again about 3 years ago. Thats the only time that I fed them (and they were very hungry)

[KathyF]

because of weather. I think they come soon as they can to breed. and I think people should and will feed before finding their birds dead. it does not change birds from hunting finding their own food. but I think we should not rule out that it could play a part of earlier arrivals.

"because of weather". Exactly. They have to get to Missouri through a lot of other "weather" and states first, which means they need food to get here. Which means, the "weather" must be right along the way to have abundant food for their journey.

[KathyF]

One more link on this to a conversation about this a few years ago. I asked it then, and I've asked it now and still no one has answered my question: In March, 2011 my martins returned earlier than ever before and I had *never* supplemental fed them prior to that year. I had to feed them for the first time ever in 2011.

So, what do you suppose was the trigger that caused them to arrive "earlier than usual" that first time? (hint: it's a lot more complicated than, "supplemental feeding", since there was no feeding here prior to 2011).

http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic ... c&&start=0

Speculation is often fun, but I submit that there are a lot more factors than any of us realize (well, the scientists have documented it) that cause migration to happen at certain times.

Good luck everyone.

[John Miller]

I continue to theorize that return rates are linked to fledge dates. *

In 2012, we had the warmest spring ever and martins in Forest Park, St. Louis, fledged mid to late June. In 2013, had earliest arrivals ever -- a pair March 4, but fledge rates were late June to early July. This 2014, no martins until March 20.

John


*Sounds like the guys on Cheers at the bar - ha.

[Louise Chambers]

John Miller is getting warmer... warmer.... article in spring update on geo data has some insights, too.

[Show-Me-Mike]

Kathy,

Regarding your question whether my Farmington, MO super colony buddy fed his martins the year of his large loss of martins: the answer is yes. And still does when the situation requires it.

He's the most diligent landlord I know when it comes to caring for his martins. He is now hosting some 200+ pair of martins each year and delights in every moment of it as you can imagine. And his door is always open for martin enthusiasts if you stop by.

In the Farmington area, simply take Hwy OO south to Hwy F, then east on Hwy F approximately 1.5 miles. You can't miss the lovely combination of houses and gourds and hundreds of martins flying above.

Regarding the factors impacting the annual early/late return of our purple martins, I haven't a clue. I just leave the light on for them when they arrive.

Best wishes to everyone for a successful martin season!

Michael

[Doug Martin - PA]

John wrote : I continue to theorize that return rates are linked to fledge dates.

This was exactly my point! I wrote in my original post : The bottom line is everything may occur a bit earlier as a result, including the fledging of the young, and the departure of the colony for the season.

I am say that feeding may provide earlier and better conditioning. This in turn moves the nesting cycle forward somewhat. This means earlier fledging times.

I am also feeding birds moving north.They are also able to move on sooner during the migration process than they would normally be able to during cold weather.

My bottom line is it has to have an impact somewhere across the board. I do believe that these are positive impacts however and certainly can increase their population dramatically in low population areas in the north.

If they do arrive a little earlier it is no different than having a warm early spring the prior year which also advances the nesting cycle.

Doug

[tonyg]

My two cents worth..since I've been reporting my scout reports on here since 2009, my martins have returned within a week of the year before and I've supplemental fed 3 of those years...my scout report for 2014 should have been March 18...and fed them in 2013 when they showed up March 6.. So IMO it hasn't made a difference here...

[Doug Martin - PA]

Supplemental feeding a few times during a few cold spells would likely not impact them at all. It would only serve to save their lives.

On the other hand I feed daily here. During April it is usually necessary. I have been feeding 4 eggs and about 3-4 oz of freeze dried mealworms in the morning and in the evening. Not to mention have gone through 5000 crickets here too.

This is where i think it may have an impact. I just did a nest check and I already have several nests lined with leaves and ready for eggs. Others are building today as well. The past week the weather has been cold windy and rainy. Little if any insects to eat. Right now it is 61 and sunny and nesting is the main activity at 1:00 PM. Most trees do not have leaves yet here. They found a few that do.

Today I had a photographer come and take pictures. I wanted to get a birds eye photo of a Martin catching a cricket in its mouth. I will share them for sure. My deck is at eye level to the housing and they catch crickets a foot or so from my hand. He took picture of this with a rapid shutter. He was amazed to say the least, of the entire feeding frenzy.

Most all cavities are full here. Migrants are having a very difficult time finding an open spot for the night. I am putting up an extra overnight hotel for them.

Several SY females now but no male yet.

Have a great Martin Season everyone,

Doug

[John Barrow]

It is my opinion that such speculation only serves to diminish the value of the spectacular data that has been and is being accumulated in the geolocator studies promoted by PMCA, York University and collaborators around the continent.

It is a fact, that because of these studies, more is known about the migratory habits of purple martins, than any other migratory songbird in the world. I know that there are a few who have advanced the proposition that supplemental feeding is causing all martins to return earlier, thereby causing multiple deaths to the species. No data is offered to support this theory.

I live in Corpus Christi, TX and have offered extensive supplemental feeding to migrating adults as well as nestlings in drought years. A friend who I collaborate with is Jeff Webster. For at least the last decade we have hosted equal size colonies. We offer the same number of cavities and host about the same number of pairs. We have banded all nestlings at both colonies during several years. We have deployed and recovered geolocators from both colonies. Jeff lives several miles from me, and has does not supplementally feed his martins.
So we have two similar colonies--one that offers supplemental feeding and one that does not. One or the other usually reports the first martin arrival in Corpus Christi in the scout reports. Checking those reports one will note a consistent pattern of the first birds arriving at one colony within a few days of the other. This year it was at Jeff's location reporting a couple of days before my report. At both colonies arrivals were abnormally late this year. The egg laying and fledge timing has always been nearly identical at both colonies. The only difference is a slightly higher fledge rate at the colony where feeding is supplemented.

While I appreciate the many opinions voiced in this thread, I find no basis to support its dramatic title that could imply that supplemental feeding is harming martins.

[DornCounty]

because of weather. I think they come soon as they can to breed. and I think people should and will feed before finding their birds dead. it does not change birds from hunting finding their own food. but I think we should not rule out that it could play a part of earlier arrivals.

"because of weather". Exactly. They have to get to Missouri through a lot of other "weather" and states first, which means they need food to get here. Which means, the "weather" must be right along the way to have abundant food for their journey.

Kathy... geo data has shown that martins often make the last long leg of their jouney in one flight.. almost certainly spending little time to feed. I don't think the weather in the general area has any sort of impact when they arrive.

[Matt F.]

Kathy... geo data has shown that martins often make the last long leg of their jouney in one flight.. almost certainly spending little time to feed. I don't think the weather in the general area has any sort of impact when they arrive.

Or possibly feeding like they normally do - on the wing, without stopping.
I know the geo data shows trans-Gulf crossings being made in 24 hours.
I would think a Martin, in active migration and constant flying, could not go much more than 24 hours without feeding.
One thing that I'd be willing to bet is brutal on not only Martins, but any of the other, trans-Gulf migrants, is to make it all the way across the without feeding, only to show up right when a nasty cold front is hitting the coast, so they're welcomed to a cold shore arrival, void of any flying insects.
That another big reason why coastal feeding stations like John B. and Louise provide, are extra important in providing food when the Martins arrive, and they're energy reserves are at an emergency level.

[Doug Martin - PA]

My initial post on this topic was to create discussion which it has. It was not meant to serve as a caution against feeding. Only that it was possible that an entire colony being fed on a daily basis as mine is....and others in my area do, could produce an earlier time table than nature itself may provide. At worst by a week or two.

Even daily feeding of large volumes (as I am doing) would only produce (in my opinion) the same potential arrival time of the colony if it had a warmer spring the prior season with a high availability of natural food.

Clearly there is no harm in that. Read my initial post.

We are all in this hobby together and this is why we come to the forum. Does anyone else here get up every morning and prepare breakfast for their martins? I do. I can't remember the last time I didn't. The weather has been awful. It makes a huge difference in their health, and I believe advances the nesting cycle from what the weather itself would have provided. (which may ultimately have been death)

They would 100% undoubtedly return earlier than the ones that starve to death... that is a fact. So would they not also potentially return earlier than the ones that almost starved to death too?

In a perfect year of weather beginning April 1st in PA in which eggs are laid early, and fledging occurs early, might they also return earlier the following spring? Now, if this also happens in successive years in a row? What is the logical result.

I am not pretending to know all the answers.... just sharing my personal observations and a thought that occurs to me. In fact it does worry me a little. Will I be feeding even more birds next March? It is quite a commitment. But an enjoyable one at that. I really care for my birds in more ways than one.

Having a Martin colony is everything I ever asked for and more. To say I enjoy them is an understatement. But there is a lot we don't know about them, and about supplemental feeding them on a daily basis. But if I didn't feed them I may not have any Martins at all.

I am artificially supporting a very large number of birds, for a long period of time.
It's kind of scary. Is the overall impact on them nothing.... or zero? I think not.

Once again I do not believe supplemental feeding a few times can do anything negative to them or change their arrival times. But it sure will help you build a healthy colony faster. Especially in the north. I also believe the Indians fed them too.( Sure wish I could prove that.) I do know a few of the old Amish colonies up here did too. Many years ago.

Someone asked if when feeding them do they still pile into cavities with tails sticking out during long cold spells? The answer is no. I have never seen it here. They are fine when you feed them. That is their last resort prior to death. I did see it back in 1985 when the 40 pair colony not far from me was totally wiped out that year. Fifteen Martins in one 6x6 compartment..... No he did not feed. Didn't think you had to. Always had them for years and they returned on the 15th of April like clockwork. He has not had them since.

I know one thing, mine are coming back earlier than his. They still aren't back yet and it's been 30 years..

Doug

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Someone asked if when feeding them do they still pile into cavities with tails sticking out during long cold spells? The answer is no. I have never seen it here. They are fine when you feed them. That is their last resort prior to death. I did see it back in 1985 when the 40 pair colony not far from me was totally wiped out that year. Fifteen Martins in one 6x6 compartment..... No he did not feed. Didn't think you had to. Always had them for years and they returned on the 15th of April like clockwork. He has not had them since.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I did not think that they would do that if they are being fed

[taxidermy lady]

Ok I drive my round two times a week and watch the martins at the sites in town. When it was cold and low temps. not a martin to be found. Unless they were in the houses?? Will martins fly so far where bugs are. I am sure none of these landlords do not feed their martins, can't keep sparrows and starlings out!! Did a drive today all back doing their thing. it was cold and rainy here for 4 days!!! These martins went somewhere to eat.