1. In your experience what is your favorite plastic gourd?
2. I want to mount these gourds with aluminum mounting arms to a wooden PMCA gourd rack. Where can I find these mounting arms?
I just ordered 12 Excluder Gourds with the Excluder II entrance. I am going to hang them on the PMCA gourd rack.
I have four Troyer horizontal gourds I've used in the past that I have been pleased with. I also have used four big bo gourds by S&K and 20 or so natural gourds.
The natural gourds and s&k gourds have been more high maintenance than I have time for so I want to completely transition to Excluder, Troyer Horizontal and Troyer Vertical Gourds.
3. How would you rank the following gourds:
Excluder Gourd
Troyer Horizontal Gourd
Troyer Vertical Gourd
Super Gourd
Naturline Gourd
S&K Bo 11 Plus Gourd
Looking for Opinions on Gourds
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John Miller
- Posts: 4863
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
Evan
It's just not possible to rank them, I assume in terms of which is more likely to attract martins or better yet in terms of which seems to help the martins fledge more young.
Each does have different features making each better suited to different situations.
Weight is the foremost consideration. Excluder gourds are heavy, but I use a lot of them. Troyer's are slightly less weight and have the superior lids, which can be purchased separately.
Yes, naturals are work. I have found nothing other than naturals that I think is light and sturdy enough to hang below some aluminum Trendsetters, but I am going to try two of the 9 inch S&K gourds, with the tunnel, under one Trendsetter this year, and see how it goes.
Heat is other factor and that's one reason I lean toward Excluders - they are big and I think can get more airflow , but you have to add PVC elbow vents, whereas the Troyer gourds have little vent canopies than can be drilled out.
One of the concerns I have is that I don't want my gourds to rock or whip back and forth in the wind, and shallow, light-weight gourds, including naturals, may do this. A gentle swing is fine. On such gourds I use no. 10 solid strand wire and tightly loop around the neck to stabilize...a lot of fiddling with my needle nose pliers, but it's what I do.
Martins look down and say whatever -- they want a very open location, predator guards, and landlords who do nest checks and manage the site pretty closely, especially for mites and of course for house sparrows.
John M
It's just not possible to rank them, I assume in terms of which is more likely to attract martins or better yet in terms of which seems to help the martins fledge more young.
Each does have different features making each better suited to different situations.
Weight is the foremost consideration. Excluder gourds are heavy, but I use a lot of them. Troyer's are slightly less weight and have the superior lids, which can be purchased separately.
Yes, naturals are work. I have found nothing other than naturals that I think is light and sturdy enough to hang below some aluminum Trendsetters, but I am going to try two of the 9 inch S&K gourds, with the tunnel, under one Trendsetter this year, and see how it goes.
Heat is other factor and that's one reason I lean toward Excluders - they are big and I think can get more airflow , but you have to add PVC elbow vents, whereas the Troyer gourds have little vent canopies than can be drilled out.
One of the concerns I have is that I don't want my gourds to rock or whip back and forth in the wind, and shallow, light-weight gourds, including naturals, may do this. A gentle swing is fine. On such gourds I use no. 10 solid strand wire and tightly loop around the neck to stabilize...a lot of fiddling with my needle nose pliers, but it's what I do.
Martins look down and say whatever -- they want a very open location, predator guards, and landlords who do nest checks and manage the site pretty closely, especially for mites and of course for house sparrows.
John M
John,
Thanks for the reply. I am more looking for opinions on which gourd will be the most durable and the lease amount of maintenance over a 10 - 15 year lifespan. I like natural gourds but the amount of maintenance and work they require eliminate them as an option for me at my current stage of life.
I will probably go with a combination of the gourds i listed below.
Here's a question: How do the porches mount to the excluder gourd? I know they come with the hardware but are their pre-drilled holes? Or are the hole locations marked?
Also, any insight on where I can order the hanging arms that will connect the gourd to the rack? I could probably fabricate something from a 3/16" aluminum dowel or have them fabricated. Steve K. had a post on them a while back from where he went from using wire to the fixed, aluminum arm mounts.
Thanks for the reply. I am more looking for opinions on which gourd will be the most durable and the lease amount of maintenance over a 10 - 15 year lifespan. I like natural gourds but the amount of maintenance and work they require eliminate them as an option for me at my current stage of life.
I will probably go with a combination of the gourds i listed below.
Here's a question: How do the porches mount to the excluder gourd? I know they come with the hardware but are their pre-drilled holes? Or are the hole locations marked?
Also, any insight on where I can order the hanging arms that will connect the gourd to the rack? I could probably fabricate something from a 3/16" aluminum dowel or have them fabricated. Steve K. had a post on them a while back from where he went from using wire to the fixed, aluminum arm mounts.
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John Miller
- Posts: 4863
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
Evan
I have an "opinion" that the excluder gourd line is the most durable. The porches are thick. There are indentations marked to drill the h oles for the porches, but the manufactuer originally thought lower porches were better and so most of us set the porch just above the indentation holes and drill there, resulting in a porch that's one-fourth inch below the opening.
It's difficult to attach the porches as it's hard to reach in with a wrench inside the gourd to get the nut on the screw, feeling your way. I found that if I buy a small bag of no. 10 lock washers and use my fingers to put a washer (tiny with barbs) on the screw inside first, I can then put the nut on and hold it with finger pressure and the screw tightens up well on the outside using a screw driver.
These have recently been purchased by Gold Crest I think in Missouri and they are evaluating how to make it even better, but it is a good gourd that should outlast us, except for the lids.
There is an alternative venting technique to the PVC elbow I have used for excluder gourds. The gourds come with small hanging holes side to side, and you can drill these larger as needed. If you choose to hang with a rod front to back, drilling out new holes front to back, you can then use the side holes as vents (the sides of the gourd are thick because of the seam), drilling out the side holes slightly larger on an upward slant. This venting technique won't work on the front as the gourd is less thick and water would get in. This is just an option to consider.
John
I have an "opinion" that the excluder gourd line is the most durable. The porches are thick. There are indentations marked to drill the h oles for the porches, but the manufactuer originally thought lower porches were better and so most of us set the porch just above the indentation holes and drill there, resulting in a porch that's one-fourth inch below the opening.
It's difficult to attach the porches as it's hard to reach in with a wrench inside the gourd to get the nut on the screw, feeling your way. I found that if I buy a small bag of no. 10 lock washers and use my fingers to put a washer (tiny with barbs) on the screw inside first, I can then put the nut on and hold it with finger pressure and the screw tightens up well on the outside using a screw driver.
These have recently been purchased by Gold Crest I think in Missouri and they are evaluating how to make it even better, but it is a good gourd that should outlast us, except for the lids.
There is an alternative venting technique to the PVC elbow I have used for excluder gourds. The gourds come with small hanging holes side to side, and you can drill these larger as needed. If you choose to hang with a rod front to back, drilling out new holes front to back, you can then use the side holes as vents (the sides of the gourd are thick because of the seam), drilling out the side holes slightly larger on an upward slant. This venting technique won't work on the front as the gourd is less thick and water would get in. This is just an option to consider.
John
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klcretired
- Posts: 2174
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:06 am
- Location: Grand Prairie,Tx
Hello Evan337,
I use many different types of Gourds as well as Pm Housing I have a Lone Star 20 Room Goliad House w/ sreh entrances, Having a Pm Housing along w/ the gourd Rack gives the martins a variety to choose from, just like us the martins have their own individual taste , My Gourds are Mounted on a Gemini Gourd Rack They Range from HZ Troyers w/ Conley entrances , Oblong entrances , Sreh entrance and a couple of Round Hole entrances & Clingers.
also I Use Super Gourds w/ Tunnels with a variety of entrances.
The reason for the Troyers & Super Gourds w/ tunnels is the Martins Like the Depth and feel of security and also a Owl has a Reach of 12" so the predators can't get at the Martins, eggs or Babies, , Oh and only use the round hole entrances if you have no Trash Beaks AKA Sparrows & Starlings
I hope this Helps you decide
I use many different types of Gourds as well as Pm Housing I have a Lone Star 20 Room Goliad House w/ sreh entrances, Having a Pm Housing along w/ the gourd Rack gives the martins a variety to choose from, just like us the martins have their own individual taste , My Gourds are Mounted on a Gemini Gourd Rack They Range from HZ Troyers w/ Conley entrances , Oblong entrances , Sreh entrance and a couple of Round Hole entrances & Clingers.
also I Use Super Gourds w/ Tunnels with a variety of entrances.
The reason for the Troyers & Super Gourds w/ tunnels is the Martins Like the Depth and feel of security and also a Owl has a Reach of 12" so the predators can't get at the Martins, eggs or Babies, , Oh and only use the round hole entrances if you have no Trash Beaks AKA Sparrows & Starlings
I hope this Helps you decide
Last edited by klcretired on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pictures Taken with Canon Rebel XT Digital using a Sigma 50-500 Long Lens.
Wishing everyone a Great Martin Year
Happy Martining for 2022 to everyone,
K.C.
[email protected]
Wishing everyone a Great Martin Year
Happy Martining for 2022 to everyone,
K.C.
[email protected]
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dsonyay
- Posts: 1677
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:10 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Broussard
- Martin Colony History: 2010-2014 located in Slidell LA. Gourd rack with 16 gourds. Max of 2 pairs during this short period in Slidell. Plenty of fledglings.
2014-present.. moved to Broussard LA. Same Gourd Rack but added a 6 room house (modified from a 12 room)
2020: after a long drought of nothing, 4 pairs and 4 nests, 23 eggs total.
6 fledges.
2021: 9 pair, 47 eggs
36 hatchlings
30 fledged
2022: about 12 pairs.. many eggs, all fledged.. only had one hatchling die.. probably because of our schnauzer. :(
2023: 16 pairs. So far about 60 chicks with about a dozen eggs to go.
2024: 13 pair. About 60 eggs
2025: 14 pairs .. 69 eggs.
My only experience is with S&K gourds. The Big Bo gourds are excellent. I added tunnels and did the cooling caps on them. The caps are screw on.
The Bo-9 are well made, but I'm not crazy about the snap on lids. Make sure you hear a snap when putting them on. Mine are tunneled with cooling caps
The bo11 is very big and even bigger inside is you forego the black interior piece. I added tunnels to those as well. Plus cooling caps. The bo11 is noticeably heavier than the big Bo and bo9. Also, they have snap on lids.
If it wasn't for the snap on lids I'd have nothing to complain about.
One piece of advice.. if you go with Bo gourds, put a coat of white plastic paint on the porches (if you don't use tunnels). They are not very durable when it comes to UV rays and get brittle after the second season. Painting the porches would solve that.
The Bo-9 are well made, but I'm not crazy about the snap on lids. Make sure you hear a snap when putting them on. Mine are tunneled with cooling caps
The bo11 is very big and even bigger inside is you forego the black interior piece. I added tunnels to those as well. Plus cooling caps. The bo11 is noticeably heavier than the big Bo and bo9. Also, they have snap on lids.
If it wasn't for the snap on lids I'd have nothing to complain about.
One piece of advice.. if you go with Bo gourds, put a coat of white plastic paint on the porches (if you don't use tunnels). They are not very durable when it comes to UV rays and get brittle after the second season. Painting the porches would solve that.
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tonyg
- Posts: 1520
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 pm
- Location: Olpe, KS
- Martin Colony History: 22 year landlord, 14 at current residence..offering 9 racks and a homemade T-8 for 166 total cavities. 160 Pair in 2018 Racks consist of a Deluxe 12, AAA 16, Starburst 16, 2 K-18 Series, Super 24, 2 Gemini, Multi-purpose/two trio’s/4gourds and a T-8..Great hobby to be involved in..
I have Super gourds, Bo 11's, Bo 9's,(don't like snap on lids), Troyer Horizntals, and Troyer Verticals. If I was to choose my favorite , it would be the Troyer Vertical. As far as maintenance goes, it's the easiest to clean at the end of the year. On the other hand, the martins love them all.. 
22 year landlord..9 Rack Systems for 2018 and my home built T-8 for a total of 166 cavities..160 pair in 2018 ..SUPER COLONY!!! Love You Bev... Fan of those St. Louis Cardinals!!!!!
Thanks for all of the replies.
I had 35-40 active and successful nesting attempts last year so I am hoping the addition of the excluder gourds will help my colony grow. I have strong occupancy levels in all my housing except for an 8 compartment coates watersedge house and trio mussleman that this gourd rack will be replacing.
I had 35-40 active and successful nesting attempts last year so I am hoping the addition of the excluder gourds will help my colony grow. I have strong occupancy levels in all my housing except for an 8 compartment coates watersedge house and trio mussleman that this gourd rack will be replacing.
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Chriscreole
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am
- Location: Texas, Hutto
I have a z super system 24 with all troyers w/ Connelly entrances with tunnels and they seem to be magnets for Martins my rack is always 100% occupied.
PMCA Member since 2010
Super System 24, All Troyer W/Conley 2 entrances.
I have some of all brands. And last year we had a lot of rain and the troyers had rain inside the long tunnels. Nest got wet it turned black and nasty fast. I pick s&k gourds Bo 11 with tunnels. They get picked first and are always good and dry. Second I would pick my super gourds. But I do love having some of all. Giving them options and I enjoy to see what gets picked first and fought over. Hi have s&k doubles on every rack and those always are first to go. But they are big and a pain for me. I have had some pick nines. They all have different opinions like us. It is kind of cool.
2008 1 pair
2009 3 pair
2010 7 pair
2011 20 pair
2012 44 pair 280 eggs 210 fledged
2013 67 pair.
2014 67pair
2015-2022 67 pair
2009 3 pair
2010 7 pair
2011 20 pair
2012 44 pair 280 eggs 210 fledged
2013 67 pair.
2014 67pair
2015-2022 67 pair
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Chriscreole
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am
- Location: Texas, Hutto
we've had pretty heavy rains here and my Troyers never got water inside to where the nest was wet.
PMCA Member since 2010
Super System 24, All Troyer W/Conley 2 entrances.
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baileysambone
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:38 pm
- Location: Louisiana/Baton Rouge
Evan
I use excluder gourds underneath both of my aluminum houses. Like John said the porches should be placed higher up than where the pre drilled holes are.
The gourds are very sturdy and attaching the inside and outside porch is not a big deal.
I live in BR, if you want to come by and see them private message me and I'll give you directions.
Yvonne
I use excluder gourds underneath both of my aluminum houses. Like John said the porches should be placed higher up than where the pre drilled holes are.
The gourds are very sturdy and attaching the inside and outside porch is not a big deal.
I live in BR, if you want to come by and see them private message me and I'll give you directions.
Yvonne
2011 visitors
2012 1 pair ASY male, SY female 9 eggs, 8 hatched, fledged 5
2013 5 pair fledged 8
2014 4 pair fledged 15
2015 7 pair fledged 25
2016 10 pair fledged 31
2017 17 pair fledged 69
2018 18 pair fledged 69
2019 21 pair fledged 52 (biting gnats lost babies)
2020 17 pair fledged 53
2021 16 pair fledged 62 ( hard freeze in Feb for days. Lost 39 birds. My oldest and wisest)
2022 11 pair fledged 43
2012 1 pair ASY male, SY female 9 eggs, 8 hatched, fledged 5
2013 5 pair fledged 8
2014 4 pair fledged 15
2015 7 pair fledged 25
2016 10 pair fledged 31
2017 17 pair fledged 69
2018 18 pair fledged 69
2019 21 pair fledged 52 (biting gnats lost babies)
2020 17 pair fledged 53
2021 16 pair fledged 62 ( hard freeze in Feb for days. Lost 39 birds. My oldest and wisest)
2022 11 pair fledged 43
I think mine got wet because I do not have the hole drilled out in the tunnel for water to drain. I need to do that then maybe they will do good.
2008 1 pair
2009 3 pair
2010 7 pair
2011 20 pair
2012 44 pair 280 eggs 210 fledged
2013 67 pair.
2014 67pair
2015-2022 67 pair
2009 3 pair
2010 7 pair
2011 20 pair
2012 44 pair 280 eggs 210 fledged
2013 67 pair.
2014 67pair
2015-2022 67 pair
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Chriscreole
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am
- Location: Texas, Hutto
Yeah Ok, I have holes drilled all through the bottoms, I also made the stock holes a little bigger so they drain better. Have a great season everyone!
PMCA Member since 2010
Super System 24, All Troyer W/Conley 2 entrances.
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Billy Stephens
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: South Carolina/New Ellenton
This is only my fifth year of hosting martins, but out of the twenty four gourds I have, Most are SuperGourds, and I like them alot but, I only have two Troyer Horizontals (w/cling plates), and they are always the first to get occupied. Wish I had more!
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Greg
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:15 pm
- Location: Fuquay-Varina, NC
- Martin Colony History: As a child I managed a purple martin colony consisting of 3 houses on a tidal tributary of the Chesapeake Bay. I started my own colony at my house in Holly Springs, NC as an adult that grew to 27 pairs one year. In 2016 I moved and started a new colony in the spring of 2017 at my new home, which is about 7 miles south of my old colony. I successfully attracted my first ASY male in April of 2017. He quickly attracted a mate, followed by 7 more pairs. Grateful to have been able to start a new colony so quickly!
I think you will find its a matter of opinion and personal preference. I think the one thing we can all agree on is that purple martins LOVE big gourds and seem to prefer them in many places within their breeding range.
At my site I use Excluders, naturals, and Supergourds. The martins seem to first choose my excluders, but that may be because they have porches where my other gourds options do not. However, I have a small site and maxed out last year in all my gourds.
Excluders are my personal favorite because they are sturdy, realistic in appearance, easy to access, have great porches, and the martins love them. I raise my porches to about 1/4 in below the entrance hole because I was finding that starlings were sometimes able to breach the SREH holes when I placed the porches at their pre-drilled location.
At my site I use Excluders, naturals, and Supergourds. The martins seem to first choose my excluders, but that may be because they have porches where my other gourds options do not. However, I have a small site and maxed out last year in all my gourds.
Excluders are my personal favorite because they are sturdy, realistic in appearance, easy to access, have great porches, and the martins love them. I raise my porches to about 1/4 in below the entrance hole because I was finding that starlings were sometimes able to breach the SREH holes when I placed the porches at their pre-drilled location.
Greg H.
Holly Springs, NC
2011 - 2 pairs, 7 eggs, 7 hatch, 7 fledge
2012 - 13 pairs, 63 eggs, 52 hatched, 50 fledged
2013 - 21 pairs
2014 - 25 pairs
2015 - 27 pairs
2016 - 23 pairs removed 4 gourds this year.
2017 - moved and started a new colony which attracted 8 Pairs
2018 - first arrivals have come back....anticipating!
Holly Springs, NC
2011 - 2 pairs, 7 eggs, 7 hatch, 7 fledge
2012 - 13 pairs, 63 eggs, 52 hatched, 50 fledged
2013 - 21 pairs
2014 - 25 pairs
2015 - 27 pairs
2016 - 23 pairs removed 4 gourds this year.
2017 - moved and started a new colony which attracted 8 Pairs
2018 - first arrivals have come back....anticipating!
Thanks for all of the responses. The box arrive on Thursday with 12 Excluder Gourds. The Excluders are very nice, big, good looking gourds. I am very pleased with the size a quality of this gourd.
Attaching the porches is a little annoying but not bad. I do wish they would give a second set of drill marks that would set the porch at 1/4" below the bottom of the entrance instead of having to measure and mark to drill. Even better would be if there was a production mold for the Excluders with porches where the porches were part of the gourd mold. That way the gourd and porches would be one solid piece.
My Site will now include:
1 - T-14
4 - Troyer Gourds
3- Trio Grandpas with enlarged Compartments
12 Excluder Gourds
Total of 48 Cavities
I will probably add another four plastic gourds to complete the PMCA Gourd Rack.
I have the materials to build a couple more T-14s it's just finding the time to do the work. I also have two more Trio Grandpas that need modifying and a Trio Castle that needs work. Lots of projects to get to work on.
Attaching the porches is a little annoying but not bad. I do wish they would give a second set of drill marks that would set the porch at 1/4" below the bottom of the entrance instead of having to measure and mark to drill. Even better would be if there was a production mold for the Excluders with porches where the porches were part of the gourd mold. That way the gourd and porches would be one solid piece.
My Site will now include:
1 - T-14
4 - Troyer Gourds
3- Trio Grandpas with enlarged Compartments
12 Excluder Gourds
Total of 48 Cavities
I will probably add another four plastic gourds to complete the PMCA Gourd Rack.
I have the materials to build a couple more T-14s it's just finding the time to do the work. I also have two more Trio Grandpas that need modifying and a Trio Castle that needs work. Lots of projects to get to work on.
Regarding S&K gourds (Bo-9, Bo-11) with snap-on lids, is everyone aware that the lids stay on better if you snap them on upside-down? That is, attach each lid with the tab on the top. The S&K logo will appear upside down, but the lid stays on much better that way. I cannot take credit for this idea; I read about it a couple years ago, possibly here on the PMCA forum.
PMCA member
2011 - 1 SY pair w/ 2 HY fledged
2012 - 5 breeding pairs
2013 - 14 nesting pairs and several singles
2014 - 8 nesting pairs
2015 - 5 nesting prs w/mostly ASY parents
2011 - 1 SY pair w/ 2 HY fledged
2012 - 5 breeding pairs
2013 - 14 nesting pairs and several singles
2014 - 8 nesting pairs
2015 - 5 nesting prs w/mostly ASY parents
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MamaBruff
- Posts: 1466
- Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:21 pm
- Location: SW Missouri
- Martin Colony History: 2013-2016 Unsuccessful at starting a PM colony. Health problems.
Rehomed all my PM stuff. Good Luck and Best Wishes to All.
Please educate me about drilling out drainage holes in the THGs tunnels... I didn't know about this!
I'd found out about them needing ventilation holes drilled until the end of 2013 season, so there is a bit of a learning curve with these gourds, for me, anyhow! :-) I've added the non skid strips inside, and packed in the pine straw pre nests, so thought I was all ready...
Thanks a bunch,
I'd found out about them needing ventilation holes drilled until the end of 2013 season, so there is a bit of a learning curve with these gourds, for me, anyhow! :-) I've added the non skid strips inside, and packed in the pine straw pre nests, so thought I was all ready...
Thanks a bunch,
~Mary B~
Lifelong PM Admirer and Nature Enthusiast.
Ruthless trapper of S&S year round.
2013-2016 Unsuccessful at starting a PM colony. Health problems.
Rehomed all my PM stuff. Good Luck and Best Wishes to All.
Lifelong PM Admirer and Nature Enthusiast.
Ruthless trapper of S&S year round.
2013-2016 Unsuccessful at starting a PM colony. Health problems.
Rehomed all my PM stuff. Good Luck and Best Wishes to All.
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John Miller
- Posts: 4863
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:11 pm
- Location: St. Louis, MO
Mary
Some of the Troyer gourds retain a bit of a lip -- that sounds like sarcasm -- ha - in the inside bowl around the drain holes. Check yours. If the lip is there, some water might pool a tiny bit. I tried drilling out larger, but thought I got the holes too big. An alternative would be to just drill about two additional drain holes in the bottom bowl area I think to assure good drainage.
John M
Some of the Troyer gourds retain a bit of a lip -- that sounds like sarcasm -- ha - in the inside bowl around the drain holes. Check yours. If the lip is there, some water might pool a tiny bit. I tried drilling out larger, but thought I got the holes too big. An alternative would be to just drill about two additional drain holes in the bottom bowl area I think to assure good drainage.
John M