Help Please !!!!!

[baileysambone]

I changed to SREH today because last week a starling raided a SY pairs nest with a possibility of 6 young. This happened Sat. I had done a nest check Thursday and had one HD old and 5 eggs.
I have an 8 room house with 2 SY pairs at present. The pair that got raided are still together and using their same hole. The other pair has not layed eggs yet.
I left 2 holes that are not being used with round holes. Today after trying, the males are just sitting on their porches and it's dark now. One female went in one of the round holes. I don't know where the other female is.
My founding ASY male is in a gourd hanging under the house, with a cresent entrance with 4 12 day old babies.
I'm worried about the 2 males sitting on the porches after dark.
What do I do
Yvonne

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

You must learn to trust advice from experienced landlords so that you will not have such problems. Why the round holes if there is a possibility of starlings? I think that practically everyone recommends SREH, so if you would have used them, then you probably would not have a problem.. This may offend you, and maybe it will not, but that is not my intention. Please use SREH if there is the slightest chance of a starling showing up at your place. The martins will learn to use them. The problem with round holes and starlings is that you will attract more and more starlings, they will kill and evict the martins eventually.

My suggestion is to remove the round holes, put 100% SREH, the martins will learn to use them, the starlings will leave. That is what usually happens. There may be some rare exceptions. You have what sometimes is called SREH anxiety, you are afraid to use the SREH.

The males may be sitting on the porches, what else is there to do. There successful nest has been raided by starlings. They are thoroughly disappointed. DO NOT ALLOW STARLINGS AND SPARROWS TO EVEN STAY FOR ONE DAY, this is very difficult, but that is the goal.

Also, nearly is important, trap or shoot every sparrow that shows up at your place, they too will chase away any martins. They can enter any hole that a martin can enter, so they really are worse than starlings.

Again, my suggestion is to make all the holes SREH, don't look at your housing for a few days, you most likely will be pleasantly surprised. Please do not be offended by my language, I am only trying to help you.

I am now wishing you the best of luck

[baileysambone]

Emil,
I have not seen a starling in my yard since Jan. The ones I do see, I shoot. As well as the sparrows. I don't get them all, but most of them.
No starling has tried to nest in my house since one breeched a cresent gourd I had up. That was 2011.
The starling came out of no where. I'm not making excuses, but I have read that when you are first getting established, use round holes.
Last year I had one pair. They choose a round hole. And I didn't have a problem.
My concern right this minute is that I have 2 SY males on the porches, not able to get in, and it's after dark.
As far as your comments, You are like that with everyone, so I'm used to it, but that doesn't help me right this moment.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I can see that you didn't like my reply so I do apologize. I do wish that you would accept that the martins can enter SREH when they do decide to enter. They must learn to enter, and its best if you start with SREH. I agree with you that many people recommend that you start with round holes, but as far as I am concerned, that is a bunch of BS. So take your choice of the advice, I am not trying to offend you. I also firmly think that the martins would NOT leave if you go to 100% SREH.

By the way, my brother lives in Baton Rouge, and he is a diehard LSU fan, and I once lived in Belle Chasse for about 10 years, I too like LSU...smile

[DebA]

Hi Yvonne,
I too have stressed out watching males struggle to enter. It breaks your heart to watch them remain outside after dark. They WILL figure it out and have more incentive now for sure. Remember they live outside in Brazil and spend the nights outside when migrating. They will manage. I am sure of it so try to relax and have faith. We all try our best and do different things.
Deb

[bwenger]

Yvonne,

Hang in there, the martins will learn to use the SREH's. Probably by tomorrow evening, they will be going in and out of them without any problems.

A lot of landlords have written about this very same subject, and most of them have come back the next day or so and said that the martins are using them with no problems.

Good luck with your birds.

Thanks,for being a concerned landlord!

Bill Wenger

[Gary W]

I started my colony with SREH's 9 years ago. Martins are exposed to deadly starling attacks when using round holes. Ten years ago I found out about the invention of the SREH, and that's the only reason I decided to start a colony. I remember when I was a kid trying to keep starlings out of my Dad's Martin house using either a BB or Pellet gun. It was an unending battle, that I would not want to deal with again. But now with the SREH, we can be free from this burden. I strongly suggest that you install SREH's as soon as possible! Martin numbers have been rebounding with this invention!

Gary

[MM]

I too started my colony with round holes, and had a starling kill the female and destroy the six eggs she was sitting on, we then started changing to crescent openings, I was nervous just like you, worried they would not like them or couldn't get in. I can truthfully say now it was the best move we made. This year we are doubling our pair, from 6 pr last yr to 12 or more this year. I reminds me that they feel more secure here. most of the other landlords in the area do not control S&S. most of them slip in like greased lighting. wishing you the best of luck.

[Bob Buskas]

I agree totaly with Emils comments regarding SREH, especially with the young Sy's. They will enter easily when they decide to. If they are not entering it is only because they are scared to death of the Starling that raided the nest earlier. Had you gone totally SREH this would not have happened. Round holes are just an invitation to Starlings and the Martins suffer the loss. No need to apologize Emil, you are correct and you have away of explaining things so well, much better than I could.

[AvianStewardess]

See, Yvonne? Told you! Everybody's in chorus: "Don't do it, Yvonne." Just kidding.

I'll say it, again: it made me feel cruel and it made me feel helpless, but I have to admit, they DID figure out the entrances. Yours will, too. Now, I know this is going to sound absolutely cruel but it was the only thing that got me through those few evenings after I did everything I could: don't watch the birds. It stunk not watching their antics but it was worse to watch their struggles.

Look forward to your "Ta Da" post, letting us know you saw one swoop right in!

[DebA]

I also agree with Emil's thoughts of SREH. His delivery was strong and hit me when I'm down kinda mean. I don't think that was necessary. But Yvonne handled that.
Deb

[EGunterTX]

If the experts all agree-- as they seem to, that round holes are bad for PMs, I have to ask why manufacturers (to include PMCA) keep selling these PM death traps?

In it just for the profit?

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

If the experts all agree-- as they seem to, that round holes are bad for PMs, I have to ask why manufacturers (to include PMCA) keep selling these PM death traps?

In it just for the profit?

Just for the profit, they sell better

or

probably about 3/4 of the people with houses that don't belong to the forums and know nothing about SREH like the round holes better. They seem to think that martins cannot enter the SREH.

or

they are saying that they control the starlings

[Matt F.]

Let's please not turn this into a round hole/round hole users bashing thread.
Round holes have there place.
There are folks that would not have been able to get that first pair, without the lure of a round hole offered.
We hear time and time again "if they want in, they'll get it, and happily accept the SREHs".
IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT FOR FOLKS THAT MAY BE TRYING TO START A COLONY, IN FAR FROM IDEAL CONDITIONs (MANY TREES CLOSE BY, ETC.)
Let's also try to be a bit more respectful, towards other experienced landlords that may have opinions that differ from your own, and refrain from calling their opinions "BS".
Everyone agrees that starling-resistant entrances are safer for Martins.
But there are situations, where round holes prove useful, and helpful.

[jr 2]

i started with round holes but starlings kept running the pm off so i switched too sreh 3 years ago and now have martins and my colony seems too be growing;;the sreh that i would recomend is cresent and clinger with tunnels and wing entrapment; my martins are learning the sreh easily and don't have a problem;;;jr2

[John Miller]

Your concern as I understand it centers on switching to SREH on martin nests that are in progress, or have just been distrupted. I have never liked changing to SREH at this time because it causes the martins stress. I did it once on house that was suddenly overrun with starlings, but was early in the season and martins didn't have eggs yet.

Make sure your SREH you applied is the right size, and maybe add traction tape to the floor inside and out to help them enter. But I also have used a gradual or "step down" SREH for these situations. You can attach a crescent that you have opened very very slightly and a day after the martins are entering, switch it to a spec plate. This is not at all saying to do this in general. I only offer it as an option for cases where a martin nest is already active, such as with eggs or young and there may be less time for the adults to learn to enter without risking loosing the nest, or in your case the martins may re-nest.

John

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Let's please not turn this into a round hole/round hole users bashing thread.
Round holes have there place.
There are folks that would not have been able to get that first pair, without the lure of a round hole offered.
We hear time and time again "if they want in, they'll get it, and happily accept the SREHs".
IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT FOR FOLKS THAT MAY BE TRYING TO START A COLONY, IN FAR FROM IDEAL CONDITIONs (MANY TREES CLOSE BY, ETC.)
Let's also try to be a bit more respectful, towards other experienced landlords that may have opinions that differ from your own, and refrain from calling their opinions "BS".
Everyone agrees that starling-resistant entrances are safer for Martins.
But there are situations, where round holes prove useful, and helpful.

I know that offended the round hole believers, so I am sorry, I may be too pragmatic for your liking....but I tell it like it is..DON'T read my posts if you don't like my language.

[Matt F.]

I know that offended the round hole believers, so I am sorry, I may be too pragmatic for your liking....but I tell it like it is..DON'T read my posts if you don't like my language.

I appreciate you saying that.
Your knowledge and experience is a huge asset to all of us.
I know I may be too sensitive at times.

[Louise Chambers]

Before people get more worked up, please remember that courtesy and respect for others' opinions are important on this forum.

There are plenty of good landlords who prefer using round entrances, and there are plenty of good landlords who prefer using SREHs. To safely use round entrances, either the site must have very few starlings, which are trapped & shot, or the landlord may be home full-time, and have time to control the starlings.

Locations can vary quite a bit in the number of starlings or house sparrows they have to deal with. Landlords vary in the amount of time they can spend caring for their birds. Most of the people on this forum are exceptional, and take very good care of their martins, too, so let's tone down the emotions and respect everyone's right to their own opinions, and the choices they make at their colony sites.

Yvonne, I think you'll be okay, those SY males will learn to get inside, and sleeping out at night - that's what they do most of the year. Wait till they have a female they want to court - they'll be in like they are greased!

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Louise, it bothers me a lot when I keep hearing that starlings killed babies, that starlings threw out eggs, that starlings even kill adult martins, all of that happening when there are effective entrances readily available. I just cannot understand the real reason for not using SREH, and often think that maybe they simply like round holes better, and will never switch to SREH.

I am done answering questions when round holes are used, I will let the round hole lovers take charge of answering such questions.

Sorry for disrupting this forum...it does a lot of good