Venting Troyer Horizontal Gourds

Welcome to the internet's gathering place for Purple Martin enthusiasts
Post Reply
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Venting Troyer Horizontal Gourds

The Troyer Horizontal is one of my favorite and most successful commercial plastic gourds. This gourd is opaque (non-translucent) and provides a deep safe cavity for purple martins. I use Troyer Horizontals with cling plates and ones with add-on tunnels/porches and raise many martins in them each season.

Horizontal gourds need venting, particularly in the Deep South where our high temperatures and humidity can create potential problems for martin nestlings. Though Troyer gourds are opaque and white, heat can still be an issue under extreme conditions.

Troyer Horizontals can be easily vented in several ways. The easiest way for me is to drill two vent holes in the upper back indention bumps which are there for that purpose. I use ¼ and 3/8 inch diameter holes and you can use holes up to ½ inch. If you use larger holes, then you may have a rainwater problem. However, this can be mitigated by using extended rain canopies over the vents just like you can do over a gourd entrance hole. Aluminum canopies could be installed over the vent holes using adhesive.

The Troyer Horizontal gourd indentions are located in the upper back of the gourd to help vent rising hot airflow out and possibly reduce humidity build up inside. Also, the entrance hole and the vents are at opposite directions of the gourd and this may help to create a cross ventilation effect relative to airflow movement.

You can also install PVC elbows in the upper backs on Troyer gourds for venting. These elbows come in various diameters I believe. The elbows could be attached with adhesive. The downward pointing elbow would help prevent rainwater intrusion into the gourd. I have not used the elbow approach yet.

I have included two photos of one of the backs of my Troyer Horizontal gourds showing how I drill the vent holes in the two upper indentions. In these photos, I am using 3/8 inch diameter holes that are drilled directly under the indention bumps. The bumps function somewhat as a canopy. I also am using ¼ inch holes in other gourds. Both diameters seem to work well though I probably get a little better airflow with the 3/8 inch size. You need to drill your holes at a slight downward angle at the lower edge of the indented middle of the bump so that the slope of the bump will help to provide protection from rainwater. Also create a channel that will allow any rainwater to run downward rather than inside the vent hole. You do this by holding the drill down at an angle toward the back of the gourd as you create the vent hole. My pictures show the channel. It can be difficult to hold the drill in place while drilling on slick plastic.

The upper indentions on the Troyer Horizontal gourds seem to work well in minimizing rainwater inflow into the gourds from the vent holes. Of course, if there is a deluge with winds, then possibly rainwater could be blown under the sloping indention and overcome the downward rain channel. All my Troyer Horizontals have adequate drainage holes in the bottoms and I build thick pre-nests from pine needles. Pine needles tend to shed water well. As mentioned previously, you could attach small rain canopies with adhesive over the vent holes and have them extend out maybe an inch. The canopies could be made from aluminum and that would probably keep nearly all water from entering.

This photo shows the back of a tunneled/porched Troyer Horizontal gourd with two 3/8 inch diameter vent holes cut under the indention bumps.

Image

This photo shows a close-up of the vent holes. You can see how the holes are at a slight downward angle just under the indention bumps.

Image

Steve
Guest

Thanks Steve,

I live in Okla. and it gets hot and humid here. I'm going to use the PVC elbow system on my Troyer HG's this year. Need to move as much air as I can.
Guest

Steve this is not a challenge but I ran the numbers on the area in square inches that two 3/8 diameter holes provides and it is .0703125 sqin as compared to a 1/2 inch elbows which is .19625 sqin ,indicating that the one elbow is twice the area of two 3/8 inch diameter holes

The larger area of course would vent more air and have less rim resistance to air flow......don't you just love a SA on Thanksgiving Morning.

I'm really not trying to be, but IMO 1/2 elbow is the way to go.

dick
Tim Mangan-Kansas
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:25 am
Location: Kansas, Pittsburg
Martin Colony History: 2016 - 22 Pair

Steve:

I am glad you made a post on the subject of venting martin housing as heat build-up within a nest can have serious consequences. I hope you don't mind me adding some pictures of the PVC elbow vents which you mentioned as an option for venting. Hopefully this post can be a place of referral for next year when any newcomers to the forum have questions or concerns regarding venting.

I had several nestlings that jumped from their nest this season due to heat build-up. After the season ended this year, I added PVC elbow vents to all of my houses. Here is a picture showing the PVC vents.

Image

A couple years ago, I did a temperature study on my Troyer horizontal gourds. I plugged the hole in the PVC elbow vent in one gourd not allowing any air flow. The second gourd, I again plugged the PVC vent and then drilled holes in the back dimples as you do at your colony. The third gourd had a PVC elbow vent. All three gourds had active nests with nestlings in them for the study. I found the gourd with the plugged hole not allowing any air flow had temperatures running five to six degrees hotter than the other two gourds, one with drilled holes and the one with the PVC elbow vent. It did not matter whether the venting was done by drilled holes or the use of a PVC vent; the temperature reading was the same.

Here is a picture of the three gourds used for the test and showing the position I use for placement of the PVC vent. (You can't see it clearly in the picture but the black electricians tape around the PVC elbow is holding screed door mesh in place to keep wasps from entering through the hole in the PVC vent.)

Image

The main point is, I totally agree with what you are saying; venting, whether via drilling holes or use of PVC vents, does make a difference is releasing hot air from the nesting chamber.

Tim
Last edited by Tim Mangan-Kansas on Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Licensed Bander
2015 - 14 Pair - fledged 68
2014 - Moved to Kansas - 7 Pair, 35 eggs, 28 fledged in first year
2010 Thru 2013 - Moved-Tried to start new colony
2009 - 46 pair, 217 eggs, 178 fledged
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Another way to vent is to drill upward pointing holes in the top area and then cover the vent holes with a rain canopy. I have done this with some of my natural horizontal gourds and it worked well. It could probably be done with any type of gourd.

Tim, thanks for sharing your data about elbows and vent holes. Both systems worked about the same for you. I may try out some PVC elbows on my Super Gourds and Excluders. I will probably stay with the vent hole approach in the indention bumps with my Troyer gourds for now since this system may work just as well as the elbow. I have so many of them and it is easy for the most part to drill holes.

The key is to provide some kind of venting, particularly in the Deep South with our hot temperatures and high humidity.

Steve
Flopass
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: Tennessee, White Pine

Anyone care to comment on the benefits vs. drawbacks to drilling 3/8 as compared to 1/4? I understand it will obviously generate more airflow and potentially cooler temps, but I want to be able to plug the holes if needed with the widely available plastic plugs too. The plugs say they fit 1/4 holes. My fear is that 3/8 could be too big and won't allow them to be shut back up if needed. Should I just drill the bigger holes since I won't plug them up as often? Any advice is welcome!
Chriscreole
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am
Location: Texas, Hutto

Mine vent real well and are 1/2" threaded, check out the photos of the way I did mine, My Martins loved them, no jumpers the year I added the vents so I know it worked.


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 312&type=3
Image
PMCA Member since 2010
Super System 24, All Troyer W/Conley 2 entrances.
Flopass
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: Tennessee, White Pine

Chris, Thanks for pictures! I know I don't have the time/ability to put in PVC piping, but are you saying the holes you've drilled for venting (without PVC) are 1/2 inch? I'm sure that will provide a ton of air moving through, but I'd worry about soggy nests too! You're saying 1/2 inch worked for you?
Chriscreole
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am
Location: Texas, Hutto

mine stayed dry all year and it rained real hard quite a few times last year high winds every time I checked they were all a bone dry
Image
PMCA Member since 2010
Super System 24, All Troyer W/Conley 2 entrances.
Flopass
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: Tennessee, White Pine

Thanks Chris!
Martin man RI
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:04 pm
Location: MA/RI area

I vented all my troyer gourds in last season when the muggy air set in
once vented the birds seemed alot more comfortable and cooler not that big
of a issue here but we do get hot spells. The trio houses are well vented
so must be the troyer gourds. To keep the colony healthy. With no vents
there was condensation and muddy chicks. Will see how this first season with all vented gourds go. Cannot wait till first returns. ---Ray
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Tim,
In this topic, you had pictures of your Troyer Horizontal Gourds with PVC Elbows.
Is it possible to post those pictures again so that my sister can see what she is supposed to do to her 18 THGs?

She finished the traction tape in the inside of her gourds. Your pictures and Ray Gingerich's pictures from this morning were very helpful to her.
I know why pictures are removed, but some pictures are so helpful to the topic.
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Chris,
I copied and sent some of your pictures from Facebook to my sister.
I unknowingly have passed through Hutto, TX several times when I was on the TX 130 Toll Road going back and forth from Temple between Seguin.
My sister who will benefit from your pictures is in Seguin. As I have mentioned before, her colony is about 1/4 mile from super landlord, Tony Frederickson.

What size hole saw did you use to cut the holes for your 1/2" PVC elbows?
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
taxidermy lady
Posts: 2988
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:21 am
Location: IL/Ellis Grove
Martin Colony History: Started trying to attract purple martins in 2012! It's finally happened in 2017! 5 years!!! ASY male and SY female came May 1st, fledged 5 babies!

Mark, I used a dremel with a round sanding bit. It works great for a nice tight fit. Then caulk around it. Just insert the round sanding bit and rotate it until your pvc pipe fits snug. Careful to not go to big, just keep checking you hole with your pipe! Hope this helps, it is super easy with the dremel. Tell your sister good luck and you toooo!
Sharon from southern Illinois
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Sharon,
I completely agree with your approach. I use my Black & Decker RTX-B 3 speed rotary tool all the time for all kind of projects. The B&D rotary tool is basically a Dremel tool on steroids. The chuck to hold the tool bits is the same as the Dremel. I got tired of the lack of power and short life of the Dremel rotary tools.
I use a hole saw to cut the hole slightly undersized and then I finish to size with my B&D rotary tool.
I chose to use the threaded elbows and then seal the edge between the house or gourd and the PVC elbow.

I have not put the screens for wasp but will probably regret it one day.
I get a severe local reaction to a wasp or bee sting with a lot of swelling and itching in that extremity. If stung on one finger, all of my fingers, hand, forearm, and mid arm will be swollen where I cannot bend them. As many times as I have stung, I have thankfully never had anaphylaxis.
I need to remember that "Prevention is the Best Medicine."
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
CraigM
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: IN/Richland

Hi All, New to posting on the forum but have been reading forum posts for years. I just added (2) 3/4" PVC vents to each of my original 12 Super Gourds and 4 new Excluder gourds I just bought. I will lay a small bead of silicone caulk around the elbows, but seriously doubt they need it since it was a good tight fit when threading the elbows into the gourds.

I do have a question......any suggestions on what to use as inexpensive plugs for the vents? I've read some folks use a corks on the inside of the gourds and another landlord made plugs from a swimming pool noodle.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Started with Trio houses and converting to Super Gourds. Adding another gourd rack this year.
Tim Mangan-Kansas
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:25 am
Location: Kansas, Pittsburg
Martin Colony History: 2016 - 22 Pair

Mark:

Thanks to Craig making a post on this thread, I was able to re-post the pictures you earlier asked about. (Last month I created new folders in my photobucket account and moving all my pictures to the appropriate folder. When I did this, I lost all links to where I already had posted pictures.)

Craig:
You can see in the above picture, I use cork to plug my PVC vents. Purchased the exact size needed at Lowes.

Tim
Licensed Bander
2015 - 14 Pair - fledged 68
2014 - Moved to Kansas - 7 Pair, 35 eggs, 28 fledged in first year
2010 Thru 2013 - Moved-Tried to start new colony
2009 - 46 pair, 217 eggs, 178 fledged
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Tim,
Thank you for re-posting those pictures.
Posts with pictures by Steve Kroenke and you were the defining moment when I decided to advise my sister in Seguin, TX to go with the Troyer Horizontal Gourds for her K-series 18 Gourd Rack system.
Even though the original topic was November, 2009, it is still poignant today.

Tony Frederickson will probably vouch that it can get very hot in Seguin, TX.
I remember seeing pictures of his Lonestar houses that were vented in the original article about his super colony. I remember from that article that Tony was an integral part of the idea and design of the Lonestar houses. I believe that they were originally made in Seguin, TX.
Your venting data verified the benefits in the THGs.

Although this next point is not related to venting THGs, I will mention that the Lewis SREH modification to the Conley II entrances of the THGs saved my sister's colony from being overtaken by European Starlings. The starlings were easily entering and exiting the original Conley II entrances. The martins immediately accepted the Lewis SREH and the starlings were blocked out.
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
EKLow
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:37 am
Location: VA/Lynchburg
Martin Colony History: PM landlord for 3 years and still learning. We started with a PMCA set-up of 6 horizontal Troyer gourds, and last year expanded to 12.

4th Gen Martin Fan wrote:Sharon,
I completely agree with your approach. I use my Black & Decker RTX-B 3 speed rotary tool all the time for all kind of projects. The B&D rotary tool is basically a Dremel tool on steroids. The chuck to hold the tool bits is the same as the Dremel. I got tired of the lack of power and short life of the Dremel rotary tools.
I use a hole saw to cut the hole slightly undersized and then I finish to size with my B&D rotary tool.
I chose to use the threaded elbows and then seal the edge between the house or gourd and the PVC elbow.

I have not put the screens for wasp but will probably regret it one day.
I get a severe local reaction to a wasp or bee sting with a lot of swelling and itching in that extremity. If stung on one finger, all of my fingers, hand, forearm, and mid arm will be swollen where I cannot bend them. As many times as I have stung, I have thankfully never had anaphylaxis.
I need to remember that "Prevention is the Best Medicine."
Mark.
Mark,
What kind of attachment do you use to finish the hole for the elbows? We used a 1" drill bit to create the holes, but a couple of the holes did not result in smooth round openings and I need to smooth or trim the edges. Thanks...
Kate
4th Gen Martin Fan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: TN/Collierville
Martin Colony History: I have been exposed to purple martin sounds in utero when my mother went out to get my father away from his martin colony.
I played around the martin colony every summer and watched as my father maintained his colony. In the late 50's until the 70's he did not notice European Starlings in south Texas.
When old enough, I helped maintain his colony. My primary task was eliminating English House Sparrows with a 1956 Benjamin 317 .177 air rifle.
When I settled into my own home, I started my first colony with an original Trio Castle and Trio Grandpa. When I moved again, I did not put up any martin houses. Frustration with European Starlings in the Southeast US was overwhelming.
Found PMCA Forum and learned about modern enlarged compartments and SREHs.
Inherited my father's last martin house, a Trio Grandma, modified it to modern specifications and have had good results since then.

Kate,
The rotary tool attachment is called a drum sanding band and mandrel. I generally select a 1/2" diameter x 1/2" sanding band in either 80 or 240 grit depending upon how quickly I need to cut (80) or how smooth (240).
Mark.
Mark.
Firm believer in HOSP/EUST Control, Enlarged Compartments, SREHs, Pole Predator Guards, Owl/Hawk Guards, Mite/Parasite Control, Housing Insulation, and Vents for Compartment Cooling.
PMCA Member.
Post Reply