Weather stripping for wing entrapment

[John Miller]

Emil

again, the automotive weather stripping is recommended for aluminum housing, and will add, not only because it may not stick to plastic or PVC, but even if it stays stuck, it's generally not an appropriate guard inside a tunnel. With the Troyer tunnels, you still have the small "foyer" tunnel, and so a guard that is more substantial is needed. the risk also more compliated that "just tunnels." The Troyer tunnels have different design from those made from 3 inch PVC pipe. There is a lot of space above the entrance on the inside in the Troyer tunnels, so a substantial guard inside is needed....if there is a lot of fighting (not all colonies experience) and seems to be more common when the Troyer tunnel is used in horizontal gourds...maybe less in verticals. all this is not as complicated as sounds, but I've learned here to be cautious with simple answers, and to go ahead and try to put in all the disclaimers...above all that I do not "charge" for my advice. (ha).

John Miller

[James Strickland FL]

Do you need to put the weather stripping if you have the Excluder openings?

[John Miller]

James

again, if you are using the aluminum housing, such as Trendsetters or Trio, I'd say yes...when you get a busy colony with fighting. the PMCA wing protectors should fit excluders too. Some aluminum housing in the field is hard to get clean enough for the weather stripping to stick well...so with the wing protectors you'd know they are permanent attached.

John M

[James Strickland FL]

Thanks John for your reply I will install them also.

[Matt F.]

James

again, if you are using the aluminum housing, such as Trendsetters or Trio, I'd say yes...when you get a busy colony with fighting. the PMCA wing protectors should fit excluders too. Some aluminum housing in the field is hard to get clean enough for the weather stripping to stick well...so with the wing protectors you'd know they are permanent attached.

John M

Hi John,
I just wanted to verify. I had thought the PMCA wing protectors would work on the Excluder II variant, but not the wider original Excluder?

[Louise Chambers]

Info from PMCA shop: Works on most aluminum and plastic houses as well as most plastic gourds with crescent, Excluder 2. and Clinger openings. (Does not work on Natureline or Troyer Gourds)

So they do not fit the original Excluder, but do fit Excluder II

[M.Stephens]

I like Emil am not recommending any weather stripping to metal or plastic. I only had this one entrapment but that's all I need to convince me.

[Dennis D]

It would be nice if you all quit arguing about it. Seems like some, one in particular, want to make wing entrapment into this huge issue. I (hope I don't jinx myself) have had martins for years and not had one issue. We need to keep in mind that this Forum is used by many people that may want to get into hosting martins or are new landlords. No need to make this hobby harder than it is. Lets not give them too many things to worry about before they get their first pair. You don't need to always be modifying this or modifying that to be a successful martineer. Many people do not have the time to piddle with their housing all the time. I don't want to scare off potential landlords with all the bickering about an issue that when you look at big picture, does not keep a landlord from being successful.

I know John personally and if he says automotive tape works, I believe him. It's used to hold on vent visors and bug guards on vehicles traveling 70 MPH so I think it will stick to housing. And he hosts martins in two states so I think he's qualified. When you start taking this stuff personally you defeat the purpose of the Forum.

[Scott D.- La]

Well the way I see it, people tend to gravitate toward the stripping. I know John, mentioned it cause it's easy for people to work with.
Perhaps, I did not provide good enough instruction's on how to make my aluminum guard's, as it's quite simple. If you can read a tape measure, you can make the guard's. I wish folk's would at least try. If you fell you just cannot make them, Plastic strip's will suffice and so will pvc strip's. I even noticed where one manufacturer is now giving the plastic strip's away for free, You gotta take the the Bull by the horn's and get it done. I will alway's help anyone needing assistance so, there is no excuse. I will try and provide better instruction's on how to make the aluminum guard's, it's child's play, I can assure you

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Scott, my wife threw away some aluminum cookie sheets. I may cut them up and use the aluminum strips and mold them to match what you do. I think that this would work.

[M.Stephens]

It would be nice if you all quit arguing about it. Seems like some, one in particular, want to make wing entrapment into this huge issue. I (hope I don't jinx myself) have had martins for years and not had one issue. We need to keep in mind that this Forum is used by many people that may want to get into hosting martins or are new landlords. No need to make this hobby harder than it is. Lets not give them too many things to worry about before they get their first pair. You don't need to always be modifying this or modifying that to be a successful martineer. Many people do not have the time to piddle with their housing all the time. I don't want to scare off potential landlords with all the bickering about an issue that when you look at big picture, does not keep a landlord from being successful.

I know John personally and if he says automotive tape works, I believe him. It's used to hold on vent visors and bug guards on vehicles traveling 70 MPH so I think it will stick to housing. And he hosts martins in two states so I think he's qualified. When you start taking this stuff personally you defeat the purpose of the Forum.

Dennis when I started this thread I had you and John in mind when I said I didn't want to open a can of worms and that I wanted to keep the hobby fun and not discourage newcomers! I want everyone to know I am just stating my opinion and there is no anger against you or John. I am glad that we can state our opinion and still be friends. Even though I don't know you or John personally I think in general all of us landlords should have a bond with each other and try to help one another. I thank you for your opinion. I had my first wing entrapment while this thread was active using the weather stripping and it did'nt work for me and I hope you don't have entrapment either. : )

[Matt F.]

I know John personally and if he says automotive tape works, I believe him. It's used to hold on vent visors and bug guards on vehicles traveling 70 MPH so I think it will stick to housing. And he hosts martins in two states so I think he's qualified.

I agree with you 100% Dennis.
John was integral in the research, and developement of the PMCA Wing Entrapment Protectors, and their effectiveness on aluminum housing. For those that may have a wing entrapment problem with their aluminum house, either using the PMCA protectors, or, having the weather stripping in place, will no doubt help out immensely.

[M.Stephens]

I am an open minded person and am no expert by any means. : )I might experiment with the weather stripping on my trio crescent and Lonestar Alamo crescent doors since I have 3 of the 10 ft. Rolls. The wing entrapment I had was on the plastic Troyer tunnel and as I stated it was stuck on there real good. I will definitely not recommend it on the troyer tunnels though.

[John Miller]

Here's my take. first, remember, we're all still learning. That's the most important a St. Louis county super colony landlord told me years ago.

anyway, I had a case of entrapment discovered this morning on a Trendsetter...a homemade guard on the inside made of blocks at the sides and over the top, about one half inch thick. So don' t have this solved.

The automotive weather stripping..have not had failure or failure with the PMCA wing protectors, in aluminum housing, but I suspect these, like my blocks on the inside, "reduce" but probably do not eliminate risk. To eliminate, and still discussing aluminum housing, one may need to create a mini tunnel of 3/4 inch to 1 inch thickness on the inside, out of PVC or much the same as Scott does with flat bar aluminum in Troyer tunnels. This would require significant modification of nest trays in Trendsetters -- may not work at all on Trio doors.

Re: Troyer tunnels. The weather stripping is not appropriate for the Troyer tunnels. it may not stick, and does not provide a thick enough bumper guard, because fighting there is intensified by the two martins being inside the tunnel -- what I think of as a foyer. The factory guard Troyer is now making should work, as will Scott's. The S&K guards..arches like I make for some gourds from 3 inch thin wall PVC, should work well.

We're all still learning, but I believe have about got the wing entrapment thing solved...only issue for me is if I beef up my guards further in the Trendsetters, I will have to eliminate or modify nest trays. If I could monitor daily, I might find the "reduced" risk of the PMCA wing guards to be adequate.

Need to take a break from the Forum for personal work reasons for two to three weeks now...not pouting..after all these years here I'm beyond that...but ya'll keeping looking up!

John Miller

[Matt F.]

You did good reporting it Malcolm.
Based on your report, there appear to be some factors with the tunneled gourds, that the weather-stripping just may not address.
Like you mentioned, I think adding the stripping to your crescent-equipped, aluminum houses, is a great call, and should make them safer.

[Louise Chambers]

I don't think weatherstripping was ever tested on or recommended for anything OTHER than metal houses. There have been no failures there that I can recall hearing about. So I would not say weatherstripping has failed for that use.

Oops, had not seen John's post above - thanks for adding that info.

[Matt F.]

Need to take a break from the Forum for personal work reasons for two to three weeks now...not pouting..after all these years here I'm beyond that...but ya'll keeping looking up!

Don't take off too long John!
We need you here!

[DornCounty]

The great thing is we all love the martins and want the best for them.