Weather stripping for wing entrapment

[M.Stephens]

I don't want to open a can of worms, but is the weather stripping that John Miller recommends a waist of time? Does it need to be 1/2 or 3/4" thick in order to work properly and will it come off and block the entrance? I have purchased the one he recommended in one of his earlier posts it is 5/16" thick x 1/2"wide. I don't want to recommend anything to people that will think they have to have this in order to have martins . We need to keep the hobby simple and not discourage newcomers. I love this hobby and want to keep it "fun". I have never had wing entrapment at my site. How many out there have had wing entrapment across the country?

[dsonyay]

I think I'd prefer to use the plastic material instead of the weatherstripping.

PMCA also sells a plastic entrapment guard too. I remember seeing it on the website and it wasn't expensive.

[Terry]

M. Stephen's, I have had 4 wing entrapment's and lost 2 before i seen them. Fortunately i caught the other two before it was to late.
The solution has been tried and tested here 3 year's and i have not had one since i installed 1" guard's i cut and installed in all my gourd's.
Super gourd's, THG's, and Bo 11's.
I host 80 plus pair and i know other's who have installed them sucessfully as well.
Iv'e used 3" pvc cut at 1" wide and in half. I make sure the follow at or slightly above the radias of the SREH. Then seal any gaps with caulk or lexal.
It's really a simple fix and it work's. I would not hesatate in recommending to anyone to install them.
Losing just one to wing entrapment is heartbreaking and disturbing.
Anyone who has just the SREH plates or entrances for the sake fo their bird's should install the guard's.
Some worry about them being able to get in with the guard there. If they want in they will with ease when their ready.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Terry, I made about 30 about the way that you describe

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

dp,,,,sorry

[John Miller]

The weather stripping will reduce risk, but probably not eliminate entirely because it's not thick enough. Thicker could get rubbed off, or in some housing will interfer with nest trays or doors closing. I have had one case of entrapment using "home" weather stripping, which is very soft and spongy. So far, the automotive weather stripping, which is more firm, has prevented entrapment for me, but I'd prefer to use the arch plastic, as show, where feasible.

Emil puts his on the outside, which may work. I've always put guards on the inside, but was thinking this season of trying both in and out, but birds arriving before I could get it done, and human tentants calling with stopped up toilets - ha -, have precluded me from fiddling further this year .

[M.Stephens]

Terry,Emil , John thanks for you replies. I have as one of my setups a 24 deluxe gourd rack with WDC entrances that have the better type of automotive weather stripping in them. I didnt install these myself. I had bought the rack from another landlord who had installed them in the THG tunnels. Earlier this year I added a different automotive weatherstripping in some of my crescent trio doors. It hasn't held up well. I found a few pieces lying under the racks.I suppose I should wait till next year to add any guards . My birds are in nest building stage and probably further along than I think.

[jr 2]

i am assuming that the 3 inch pvc is the thin wall;i am thinking about makeing some for the outside of my trio houses cresent entrances;;would this work for me?????jr2

[Peggy Riley]

Malcolm, wing entrapment has haunted me for years. Since I installed the guards it has not happened.

There are only 6 compartments without them. This year a starling actually broke the bottom of 2 WDC entrance plates (probably heat stressed). I used the Clinger entrances I had cut out from 2 Bo9's. I turned the guard to the outside and glued them to the existing WDC plates. It worked like a charm. He squawked for a good hour trying to get back in! I think the guards offer more protection than just wing entrapment.

I never throw any bird supplies away.

Peggy

[Dave Duit]

A few years back I had serious wing entrapment troubles. After that terrible year I switched all gourds and entrances with anti wing entrapments.

[Terry]

Thank's for posting the photo's Emil. Mine are on the inside, but either way i believe will work.

JR2, I used sch.40, it's what i had laying around. Either will work. The sch. 20 might get brittle from the sun on the outside and not hold up as well unless you paint it.
Just be sure you can open the door's for nest check's and cleanout's.

Actually if a MFG. is giving the material to you. it might work better than pvc pipe. Something to consider.

[Scott D.- La]

The solution has been tried, tested, proven relatively safe, and is being manufactured by S&K and Troyer. I am confident wing entrapment will be eliminated for the most part, aside from a occasional wedging.
People can make and install anything they desire for their equipment as they see fit.
I would suggest getting a full understanding of Entrapment through those with experience with it, as a lot of information has been posted over the last couple year's. Look at the Anatomy of a Bird's Wing and understand Entrapment can happen in several way's, and is not limited to any "one" scenario. Preconceived notion's, can put your Bird's at risk!
Search old posting and familiarize yourself with what has been posted in the past and what is being posted now.
Many times throughout Martin season, you may get the opportunity to catch a Martin. Gently, examine it's wing, see where the catch point's are and how it has the ability to rotate at each joint. If you happen to get a dead one, you can really see the ability of the wing to contort and is very important in understanding Entrapment.
As for as I am concerned, the Entrapment issue has been addressed thoroughly and I will not argue the point's of it anymore with anyone!

[Peggy Riley]

I agree with Scott. Manufacturers are sometimes slow to get with the program, Trio is an example of that. While we wait on them we must address our existing housing.

I thought I would never get finished adding my guards but I had to get them on. I was experiencing entrapment 3-4 times a season. I'm glad Scott and others devised a fix. Hats off to S&K and Troyer for quick action! And to PMCA for providing guards in the store.

[John Miller]

Stephen

Just notes...think you said you tried the automotive weather stripping in a plastic tunnel...wasn't clear to me. Also that some came off aluminum doors. I don't think it sticks well to plastic and recommend it be limited to aluminum housing, and the aluminum must be very clean...I even sanded some before appling, or acetone wipe may help. Again, a plastic or PVC arch snug against the hole, I prefer inside, probably is more effective, but may interfere with the door opening in some housing. Happy to review how to make PVC arches, and Scott has several threads on how to make guards for Troyer tunnels from flat bar aluminum. Right now though I smell supper burning.. John M

[ljd-kc]

First of all anything John recommends, to help our martins, I do not believe to be a "waste of time". It's real and and heartbreaking, if you haven't had it yet you will. One loss to wing entrapment is too many in my opinion. I would like to think we all do what we can to prevent it. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Jack

[M.Stephens]

Well the weather stripping didn't work today in my case and it was stuck on real good inside the THG with the modified excluder troyer tunnel. Luckily I didn't lose the 2 ASY males, which could have easily happened...... and I'm not so sure if the entrapped bird did make it?
Please read my story in this other thread:
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22224

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I never did like the idea of using tape to fix martin housing. Now that we have metal and plastic ways to fix wing entrapment, in my opinion, we should no longer recommend tape. In the beginning it was a preliminary fix, but now its outdated.

[Jeff Robinson]

First of all anything John recommends, to help our martins, I do not believe to be a "waste of time". It's real and and heartbreaking, if you haven't had it yet you will. One loss to wing entrapment is too many in my opinion. I would like to think we all do what we can to prevent it. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
Jack

I agree with Jack, from beginning to end. Many good points throughout this thread, but I believe John's recommendations to those who're asking to be that "ounce" of cure for many who maybe can't afford other options and do this as a "temp" fix. I used the weather stripping last year and it held up well, then I added the PMCA Wing Guards this winter. So far they're working well thru many fights inside the housing, all the way to the ground.

Malcom, sorry to hear of your entrapment - hope he got his wings back under him and that he's fine now.

[John Miller]

Emil wrote:
"I never did like the idea of using tape to fix martin housing."

Tape? Automotive weather stripping is quality rubber and runs $10 a role.

I further recommended it for aluminum housing, not plastic gourd tunnels. On aluminum, it will greatly reduce risk, probably as well as the PMCA guard, but folks who want a factory guard can use the latter.

Those of us who have experienced a lot of wing entrapment have worked hard at coming up with options to fix the problem, in both aluminum housing and gourds, and I believe have essentially solved it. I recommend folks follow those solutions: the PMCA wing protectors for aluminum, the new Troyer tunnel with the guard, or the S&K version, and see Scott D's theads about making your own "internal" gourd tunnel guards from flat bar aluminum, or my threads on how to do it with PVC. Rounding corners and making guards on the outside of tunnels, as Emil suggests, may help, but probably do not address entrapment directly. So we may disagree.

John Miller

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

John, seems like we disagree on many things, but as landlords, we all will follow our own likes and dislikes, but I will continue to disagree on tape. A few posts above this, Malcolm just reported that he had entrapment because of the tape, that is why I don't like it. Its fixing one problem, and creating the same problem another way by fixing the first problem.