Photos Of Martins Using Vertically Deep Natural Gourds

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Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Photos Of Purple Martins Using Vertically Deep Natural Gourds

I first started using natural gourds for purple martins in the mid-60s when I was just a teenager. One gourd style I used that was well like by martins was a natural gourd with the entrance cut high up near the gourd neck. I call this design a woodpecker gourd because it somewhat replicates the natural vertically deep cavity that woodpeckers excavate and martins nested in such cavities for thousands of years. Martins still nest in woodpecker cavities out west.

Martins have short legs and sharp nails which may have evolved in part due to martins nesting for eons in vertically deep woodpecker cavities. The martin’s short legs and sharp nails are ideal for climbing down into a rustic woodpecker cavity and then climbing out.

The internal substrate of a natural gourd is coarse and martins can easily climb up the surface. Think of a natural gourd as a woodpecker cavity extracted from a tree!

Woodpecker cavities are not large inside. They are vertically deep and woodpeckers do not build any nest. The females lay their eggs on a bed of wood chips. I have measured the insides of old woodpecker cavities of red-bellied and red-headed woodpeckers and flickers. They tend to be oval shaped and vary considerably in size. I have seen some that were around 4 inches wide and 6 inches long and others that were about 5 inches wide and around 7 inches long. The entrance holes may be anywhere from 8 to 12 inches or more from the bottom and the area around the entrance tends to be tubular. A woodpecker cavity can resemble a boot depending on the diameter of the nest tree.

However, my natural gourds were much larger inside than a woodpecker cavity and varied between 9 and 11 inches in diameter. The gourds I selected as a woodpecker gourd tended to be more elongated in shape or have a longer/larger neck area.

There are a number of benefits for using vertically deep cavities. Here are some:

(1) Much safer from predators, particularly from the long legs of barred and great horned owls. When the owl reaches in a vertically deep cavity, his foot for the most part may be grabbing the empty airspace of the open area ABOVE the actual nest site. Of course, this depends on the depth of the cavity. It is more physically difficult for him to twist his leg vertically downward. He has a harder time reaching the actual nest and clutching and pulling nesting material that will greatly frighten adult martins. Deep horizontal cavities still allow the long legs of the owl to reach straight into the nest chamber and grab nesting material, disturbing the martins and eventually hooking terrified adults and their young. However, deep vertical compartments probably would NOT stop adult martins from panicking and trying to fly out the entrance hole, particularly if the owl is hanging on a gourd or house. Probably nothing would. But the babies may be more protected. Also, the inside nest contents in vertically deep cavities are not nearly as visible to the eyes of owls as the nests in horizontally shallow compartment/gourds with a straight line view to the back. Owls use both sight and sound to predate martins.
(2) Would eliminate the chances of eggs accidentally rolling out the entrance hole as the martins exit their nests. This can occur if martins are fighting inside the nest and the eggs are pushed around.
(3) May encourage young martins to remain deeper in their nest cavity as they wait for their parents to bring food; this is particular true of smaller nestlings. This may discourage large well feathered out young from prematurely exiting or reduce the chances of them being pushed out of nest holes by other babies during feeding time. I saw this positive attribute of vertical deep natural gourds/wooden single unit houses in my colonies.
(4) May give any mate hunting female martin a greater sense of security because of the darkness and seclusion of such a deep cavity thereby encouraging her to accept the male that controls the territory.
(5) May be cooler in the summer because hot air rises and would tend to escape out the entrance hole. Woodpecker cavities are excavated where the entrance hole is basically a tight tunnel that gradually enlarges toward the bottom. Such a cavity channels hot air directly from the nest bowl right out the hole. In shallow cavities, the hot air will rise to the top and tends to stay there and circulate inside the cavity unless sufficient air vents are provided.
(6) May provide a better environment for building more secure nest foundations since the entrance hole is farther away from the nest site bottom. Martins could add more nest material that would not partially block the entrance hole and may eliminate the mud dam barrier sometimes seen bordering nests in the shallow house compartments. In my vertically deep natural gourds/single unit wooden houses with entrance holes cut 6 or more inches above the bottom, the nests were typically 2 to 3 inches thick. No mud dams were ever built in such cavities and no nests were built all the way up to the bottom of the entrance hole.
(7) Vertically deep cavities provide protection to small martin nestlings and minimize the chances that SY males can remove them. In my vertically deep gourds, I have never seen SY males succeed in carrying martin nestlings from the nest bottom out the nest entrance.
(8) Deep vertical cavities may activate stored genetic memories from the martin’s ancestral past and thereby function as an attractant. This may be just an extension of the darkness and seclusion factor.

Though I no longer use any natural gourds in my martin colony, I still remember how successful these gourds were in attracting and raising martins. And I will always like my vertically deep woodpecker gourds and the martins liked them too. I always had 100% occupancy levels in these gourds.

Here are some photos showing martins using a variety of vertically deep woodpecker gourds in my martin colony. These gourds had entrances cut in the necks anywhere from about 8 to 10 or more inches from the bottoms. The gourds were suspended at about a 45 degree angle or less with the entrance pointing slightly downward. The martins entered and then dropped down into the deep nesting chamber. I usually built a pre-nest of pine needles that was about 2 or 3 inches thick depending on the vertical depth. I tried to keep the depth from the entrance to the nest at least 5 inches and preferably more so the martins were not in view from the entrance. The female could be hidden as she incubated her eggs or brooded her small young. On some of the gourds I attached small cane perches just under the entrances and these helped the parent martins to feed their babies when they got larger and climbed up to the entrance to be fed.

Male ASY martin exiting his woodpecker gourd

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Female ASY martin peering out of her woodpecker gourd

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Male ASY martin peering out of his woodpecker gourd

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Male ASY martin peering out of his woodpecker gourd

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Pair of ASY martins at their woodpecker gourd

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Male ASY martin peering out of woodpecker gourd

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Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
Tony
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Iowa/Des Moines-Milford

Cool pics Steve. Thanks for sharing. Those martins were safe from preditors without tunnels.
MDavis
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:03 pm
Location: Washington/Castle Rock

Steve
All your post are very informational and help alot of people out I'm sure.
I especially like this due to the type and orientation of the gourd. Never could it be proven but I had tried for Martins for three years and had visitors
each year but no takers till I had put these up. That's when I got my first pair then the rest is history. Great job on your rebound and best of luck for this year. Keep up the good post.
Out on the west coast wishing for the best !!!!!
Mike Davis
2008: Visitors
2009: Visitors
2010: 3 Active pair, 13 birds total
2011: 10 Active pair, 24 birds total
2012: hoping for 20 pair but they have to get here first.
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Tony,

Vertically deep cavities don't need any type of tunnel unless you want to include one. You can attach tunnels to most any type of cavity to extend the entrance area outward and away from the nesting chamber.

Probably one of the safest nest cavity around relative to owl/hawk predation issues is a woodpecker cavity. The birds are deep down in the cavity and the owl/hawk probably can't see or reach anything.

Steve

Hey Mike,

I am so pleased you are having success out west with purple martins! We don't often hear about successful martin landlords using gourds/houses out west.

Possibly natural gourds with their rustic/secluded interiors most closely approximate a woodpecker cavity and western martins may be more inclined to nest in them. Then once you get martins nesting in natural gourds, you can introduce other cavity types such as plastic gourds and houses.

I am glad my postings have been informational and helpful.

I hope you have a great martin season and please keep us updated on the Forum.

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
Guest

Hey Steve,

Great post. I have been researching natural gourds and this set up seems to come up a lot and every one says it is popular with PMs.
I have some natural gourds that I grew last year and would like to use this set up.
What size hole did you use? ...........read different info from 2' to 2.5"
Also I see some have cane porch and some don't..........do the PMs have a preference?
Also how far below entrance should they be?

Tom
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Tom,

There are many ways to work with natural gourds! You can cut holes on the fronts and create a traditional vertical gourd. You can cut holes in the neck of elongated types, turn the gourd sideways and create a horizontal design with an offset hole. You can cut the neck off gourds with longer necks and create a funnel type gourd where the martins enter an entrance hole cut at the end of the neck. And you can add all kinds of tunnels to naturals.

I mainly used a two inch diameter hole in my natural gourds and that worked just fine. All martins can easily enter such a hole.

I really didn't notice any preference between gourds with or without a perch. The perch mainly helped the parent martins deliver food to their larger young at the entrance hole. Also the martins could sit in front of their entrances and guard their nest and look out for winged predators.

I placed my perches around two or three inches below the hole, but this varied some depending on the curvature of the gourd. I used Lexel adhesive to "glue" the perches in the holes.

Though I don't use the naturals anymore, I must confess they are still my favorite martin cavity. I just got tired of cleaning and maintaining them. I guess I got a little lazy, too!

I hope you will post some photos of your natural gourds once you have them ready.

Good luck with your martin colony in 2012.

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
Guest

Thanks Steve,

I started out building a T14 (2 sections) and then added two Troyer horizontal gourds which is where my my first two pair (ASY) of PMs nested.
So I want to add a gourd rack this year and have some natural gourds to try with different entrances on the gourds but really like everything I've read about this types of entrance.
On the smaller gourds (about 8" to 9") I was going to use them horizontal with tunnels but on the larger ones (10" to 11") was going to try this woodpecker entrances.

I will post pictures when completed. Still have lots of time since the martins don't return here till April.
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Tom,

Here are a two more photos of natural gourds with different kinds of hanging styles. I have a photo of one of my horizontals with an offset entrance and a photo of a funnel gourd with the entrance cut on the end of the neck.

This photo shows a horizontal natural gourd with the offset entrance cut in the neck and the gourd suspended “on its side”. The martins enter the entrance, hang a 90 degree turn, and then walk down into the deepening nesting chamber. The martins are out of view and reach of most winged predators. Elongated gourds can make good horizontal nesting cavities. Some folks call these types of gourds, “penguin gourds”. I placed a small cane perch under the entrance and also have a rain canopy over it. An ASY male martin is on the perch and you can just see his mate inside the entrance.

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This photo shows a “funnel natural gourd” where the entrance is cut at the end of the neck. The entrance area is more of a funnel than tunnel as it gradually widens until reaching the nesting chamber. I also attached a double wire perch on the inside of the neck area and had it protrude out about four inches. The perch made it much easier for the martins to enter this type of gourd entrance though I have used these gourds without any perches and the martins did fine in them. Also the parent martins could easily sit on the perch and feed any large nestling that may be at the entrance. In this photo you can see an ASY male martin peering out the entrance to his funnel gourd. This type of gourd is well protected from winged predators like owls.

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Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
tonyg
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: Olpe, KS
Martin Colony History: 22 year landlord, 14 at current residence..offering 9 racks and a homemade T-8 for 166 total cavities. 160 Pair in 2018 Racks consist of a Deluxe 12, AAA 16, Starburst 16, 2 K-18 Series, Super 24, 2 Gemini, Multi-purpose/two trio’s/4gourds and a T-8..Great hobby to be involved in..

Steve that last pic reminds me of the Troyer horizontal with the clinger entrance.. :) I can maybe see how the troyers got the idea for the plastic mold...lol
22 year landlord..9 Rack Systems for 2018 and my home built T-8 for a total of 166 cavities..160 pair in 2018 ..SUPER COLONY!!! Love You Bev... Fan of those St. Louis Cardinals!!!!!
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Tony,

I remember seeing these natural gourds with entrances cut on the ends of the necks at Victor Stoll's huge martin colony when I attended Martin Fest a long time ago. So I know that Victor had used them for many years.

I tried the woodpecker gourds and horizontals types a long time ago. But I mainly used the traditional natural gourd with the hole cut on the front.

These horizontal style natural gourds with entrances cut on the necks to create a tunnel/funnel may have influenced Andy Troyer when he designed his plastic horizontal gourd. If so, I am glad it did! The Troyer Horizontal Gourd is one of the best commercial gourds on the market.

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
James Strickland FL
Posts: 2249
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:04 pm
Location: Reidsville NC
Martin Colony History: 2017 Had a lot visitors no Matins nesting, hoping 2018 will be different.
2018 Had 1 pair
2019 had 30 pair

Steve what did you do with your old real gourds?
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey James,

I gave many of the old naturals to several local folks to use in their colonies.

We used some of the naturals for bluebird and great crested flycatcher cavities and placed them around some of the nearby pastures/woodlots. The bluebirds used them but we didn't see any flycatchers. The crested flycatchers are not that common over here.

Many of my naturals were really getting old, but a good number were still functional.

So my old naturals are still being used in other places!

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
James Strickland FL
Posts: 2249
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:04 pm
Location: Reidsville NC
Martin Colony History: 2017 Had a lot visitors no Matins nesting, hoping 2018 will be different.
2018 Had 1 pair
2019 had 30 pair

Thanks Steve.
bigwill1767
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:42 am
Location: Fruitdale, Al

Hey Steve,
Thanks for all this information. I am upgrading my gourd rack this weekend and will use this information to convert some of my gourds from tradition vertical to various types as you described. I will make the old 2" entrances into the newly added access ports and add new access ports to the necks or end to make a funnel entrance.
SEMPER FI
2014- 20 pair
2013- 9 pair
2012- 6 pair
2011- 3 pair
2010- 1 Pair
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Bigwill,

What I like about natural gourds a lot is that you can do all kinds of interesting things with them! You can have horizontals, vertically deep, funnels, and add PVC tunnels to them. And naturals come in all kinds of shapes.

I hope you have good success with your naturals this season. Once you get all your housing up, I hope you will post photos if possible. I know we would enjoy seeing your colony site.

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
bigwill1767
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:42 am
Location: Fruitdale, Al

Took me awhile but I finally got the new gourd rack up. Its not finished but more of a works in progress. I will plant gourds this year so I can add more next year. Right now I have 12 gourds on the rack and 4 gourds under the T14. The purple martins definitely prefer the gourds over the T14. I have only seen them stick their head in the T14 a couple times but they wont go in. The T14 has the SREH Plates and the gourds are all round holes. I have not had any problems with pests thus far.
I have 8 purple martins that stay at night and during the day it will be about another 6 - 8 over visiting from my neighbors. Also, from the pictures linked below, you can see my setup, the purple martins and the baby blue birds. Not very good pictures of the baby bluebirds but I was in a hurry since they were flying back and forth feeding. Since I followed the advice given here, the bluebirds took to their own box (no choice haha) and no more problems between them and the PM.

http://s368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/BigWill1767/
SEMPER FI
2014- 20 pair
2013- 9 pair
2012- 6 pair
2011- 3 pair
2010- 1 Pair
Glynn B - LA
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Louisiana West Monroe

I do wish one of the companys would sale a gourd without the access and entry already dictated. Who knows what creation might come from it?



Steve I really enjoy your post, especially the ones with photo's. Together they are great teachers for a beginner like me. Never a boring read.



bigwill is that a gourd rack of your makings? Either way, it's a fine lookin one.



Glynn
2019 26 pair 116 fledged
2018 20 pair 76 fledged
2017 19 pair 82 fledged
2016 13 pair 48 fledged
2015 3 pair 13 fledged
2014 1 pair 4 fledged
2013 2 pair 6 fledged
2012 0 pair
2011 0 pair

I don’t have the perfect site. One open flyway with trees within 80 ft. I do have a small pond they utilize during the heat of Summer. (2017) HEAVY HAWK PREDATION
Steve Kroenke
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:49 pm
Location: Louisiana/Logansport

Hey Bigwill,

Thanks for posting the link to photos of your martin gourd rack and T-14! Your housing looks good!

I like the way you have your gourds suspended on the rack. Though martins nest "together", they still like some territorial privacy between each other. Having gourds facing different directions or spread a good distance from each other helps to minimize competition conflict between martins.

I believe in some parts of the Deep South martins possibly prefer gourds over multi-compartment houses. So perhaps you are seeing that preference with gourds over the T-14 in your colony. After the gourds "fill up", then maybe new martins will move into the T-14.

Though I don't use the natural gourds anymore, I still like them a lot! I hope you have great success with naturals.

Good luck in 2012.

Steve

Hey Glynn,

It seems every company has its own unique style of access port/cap! I prefer access port caps that screw on.

The new Troyer access port cap does fit all Troyer Gourds, Super Gourds and Excluder Gourds. This access cap is thick, opaque, and should last a LONG time. As my old access caps need to be replaced, I plan to use the new Troyer access port cap. You can get these Troyer caps through the PMCA.

I am glad my posting was helpful to you. I try to add photos when I can to illustrate design concepts and show martins using various housing.

I hope you have a great purple martin season.

Steve
PMCA Member
300+ pairs of martins each season
bigwill1767
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:42 am
Location: Fruitdale, Al

Hey Glynn,
I made the rack myself. Used oilfield drill stem pipe and ordered the aluminum online which was much cheaper than buying from the local box stores. I based my rack from the pictures that Steve posted. Mine dont look as professional as Steve's but I made the best I could. I noticed on Steve's the arm's where the gourds attach look like they were fabricated at a machine shop. I couldnt do that so I just cut the round bar and stuck in a hole I cut in a angle piece and bent them the best I could. Not perfect but I dont think they will mind too much :lol:
I still have room to add another layer at the bottom and add more arms and gourds but I will wait until end of the year to make anymore adjustments. I have a aluminum plate to put at the bottom which will replace the wooden support/wire guide attachment.

Hey Steve,
Thanks for all. You really helped me put this together since I could get ideas from your pictures. I really waited too late to properly prepare the gourds. I like working with the naturals since like you mentioned, you can make them in so many different ways. I will plant lots of gourds this year so I can properly prepare them next winter. I only made 3 with access ports this year but intend to add more for next year and will probably include some type of SREH.
SEMPER FI
2014- 20 pair
2013- 9 pair
2012- 6 pair
2011- 3 pair
2010- 1 Pair
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