Tree Swallow entrance hole

Dolphins Fan · Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:21 pm

Hello my name is Scott and I'm new to the forum and look forward to talking with everyone.

My first question is about an entrance hole of 7/8" x 2-1/4" that a lady by the name of KathyF posted on here a while back. She claimed that this size hole will allow TS but exclude house sparrows.

I'm wondering if anyone else has used this size hole and had success? I'm a little worried because I live in upstate NY. Can the TS this far north be a little bigger and not be able to fit in this size hole?

Aside from Kathy using this size hole I have never heard of anyone else who uses it and no one makes a box with that size hole. I have read a couple of places that 7/8" is good for Violet-green swallows but recommend a 15/16" hole for TS.

Any information on this would be a great help.

Dave Reynolds · Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:09 am

I'm not sure of the numbers, but myabe I can move this thread back to the top, So KathyF will read it. I'm sure if she reads it she will respond to it

Dave -- in Little Hocking, Ohio

John Miller · Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:20 am

Bernie Nikolai was first to use here, seveal years ago..you can search archives. He's still frozen in the Alberta, I think, and archive articles I found were not conclusive.

Was very encouraging to see Kathy's good success. I put out a few gourds for house and Carolina wrens in my yard and have been using the slot cut from a sentra plate and glued on to the gourd to protect them from house sparrows...working so far.

John M

KathyF · Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:22 am

[Dave - thanks for the heads up!]

Hi Scott - Check out this thread. Bernie Nikolai first posted about the slots and I just picked up the torch from him. I now have 8 boxes with these slots on them. I did have a breach last year by a HOSP in one of my boxes, but when I remeasured the opening, I had gotten it slightly a hair larger than 7/8", so I'll be changing that one out this year. I had some left over siding and used that to cut the holes for my boxes.

Here's the thread - lots of good info here!.

http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewt ... +resistant

Billy Stephens · Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 am

Just curious, I am located near Aiken SC. I have seen Tree Swallows at my place and was hoping to attract some. Is it possible? Will they breed this far south? The maps I have seen show their breeding range further north.
Thanks

Dolphins Fan · Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:34 pm

Thank you everyone for the info. The reason this hole size is so important is keeping out house sparrows because they can and will kill. Two years ago I had a swallow pair and when I got home from work I happened to notice a male house sparrow on top of the swallow box. Without hesitation I went inside got my pellet gun and ended his miserable life. When I opened the box the male swallow was dead inside with his head pecked to death. It was a terrible sight to see and now every chance I get I eliminate house sparrows.

This size hole will be huge for anyone who has house sparrows. It sounds like the hole has to be exact or hosp will enter. Too bad we can't prevent them from entering bluebird or martin houses.

I already made a couple of these entrances I'll be taking some photos.

Dolphins Fan · Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:21 pm

Billy Stephens wrote:Just curious, I am located near Aiken SC. I have seen Tree Swallows at my place and was hoping to attract some. Is it possible? Will they breed this far south? The maps I have seen show their breeding range further north.
Thanks

If I had to guess I would say your too far south for them to breed but I could be wrong. You can always put up some boxes and see what happens.

Linda Reynolds · Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:46 pm

Billy, the tree swallow population is so prolific and successful that their nesting range is changing each year. It is changing too rapidly for field guides to always present the most current information.

We hosted them when we lived on Long Island, NY and enjoyed their company. They are beautiful and delightful birds, but sometimes cause problems for landlords trying to attract martins because they are so territorial and tenacious. They are easier to manage IF you have already established a purple martin colony.

We live in southwestern TN in the town of Adamsville and have offered nest boxes for them for the past 10 years. We have never had any nest in our area, and only once spotted some northern migratory visitors. However, we still offer the extra housing and hope that someday, they will nest in our area.

We have friends in southern, middle and north Alabama that successfully host them. We also have friends in the Nashville *area* that host them. I would assume that your area might already host them, or at least be on their expanded nesting range list of sites. Billy, I would certainly offer some housing and see what happens. If you are not currently hosting martins, however, I might rethink and wait until I had a healthy martin colony in place first.

Billy Stephens · Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

Thanks NJ, Linda, I did have two pair of martins to nest last year, and one pair the year before. I had several that stayed around for a long time. I guess you cant really call that an established colony yet. I think I will try the 7/8" X 2-1/4" slotted hole on a Supergourd that I have hanging from a shepards hook and see what happens. Still waiting for my martins to return. I think I am starting to wear a groove in my floor leading to the kitchen window!!!.

Linda Reynolds · Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:33 pm

(NJDEVILS), Welcome to The Forum, Scott..........sorry if it seems I have semi-hijacked your post. Many years ago, I use to live in Chittenango, NY, just outside of Syracuse. I think if this works for Bernie in Alberta, Canada, it will work in upstate NY. The slotted entry BB house is very interesting and Bernie has posted some good information. I am happy links were shared.

I would, however, like to share this link with some of our newer members. Any landlord that is interested in establishing a tri-habitation (martins, blue birds, and tree swallows) environment, should bookmark or save a copy of this link. It is proven to contain great information that has been helpful to many landlords.

Billy Stephens, I hope you find this of interest:

http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/T ... GENCY.html

Scott, it is great to hear you are pro-active when dealing with house sparrows...........Show no mercy. They kill our native birds.

Good luck to you both.........

Guest · Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:32 pm

Linda Reynolds-TN wrote:We hosted them when we lived on Long Island, NY and enjoyed their company. They are beautiful and delightful birds, but sometimes cause problems for landlords trying to attract martins because they are so territorial and tenacious. They are easier to manage IF you have already established a purple martin colony.

Linda, I'm curious, did you also host Purple Martins (along with the Tree Swallows), while you were on LI? If so, did you wait a few years until after your PM colony was established before you offered housing for the Tree Swallows?

(NJDevils) Scott- sorry for taking this off-topic.....that's what happens when you're a Bruins fan!

Linda Reynolds · Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:40 pm

Scott, unfortunately, we tried for many years, but did NOT ever host martins when living on Long Island. In retrospect, our flyways were not as open as needed. We had a lot to learn.

We certainly loved those tree swallows, and they *kind of* made up for not hosting martins. They are delightful little, spirited, birds..........

You should contact Ray Marr. He is the New England expert on martins, and hosts/manages most of the colonies that are thriving.

(LOVE the Bruins).........

D'Nese · Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:49 pm

We have hosted TS's for the past 5 years, we moved here in 2007 from up north. They actually invaded out BB boxes at first and then my husband built the recommended sized house and they STILL invade the BB boxes. They just figure out who's boss of that box and I've been fledging babies ever since. I try to plug the TS houses until I see them in the area. Last year I had one pair lay 7 eggs, but unfortunately only 6 survived. Ironically one egg hatched a few day's later than the rest and perished because of his small size. Every year there are more. I've always wanted to try the modified entrance. It's on the "honey do" list.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i32 ... e8a34a.jpg
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i32 ... 83d90e.jpg
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i32 ... 7d9652.jpg

The last pic is of the odd ball baby that I lost. He never really stood a chance, I was very sad, but overjoyed once all of his brothers and sisters fledged. It was a very crowded box.

Linda Reynolds · Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:09 pm

So close, yet so far.........We would love to host them now that we have a very populated martin and bluebird colony. They are the last to be added to our tri-habitation goal.

D"Nese, I did not know, or perhaps forgot that you hosted them. Again..........so close, yet so far. We have only seen them one year when they were migrating north. We have plenty of housing available, but they are not as yet nesting in our area.

Oh gosh..............MAJOR apologies to NJDevils for hijacking his post.........

Guest · Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:13 pm

Linda Reynolds-TN wrote:Scott, unfortunately, we tried for many years, but did NOT ever host martins when living on Long Island. In retrospect, our flyways were not as open as needed. We had a lot to learn.

We certainly loved those tree swallows, and they *kind of* made up for not hosting martins. They are delightful little, spirited, birds..........

You should contact Ray Marr. He is the New England expert on martins, and hosts/manages most of the colonies that are thriving.

(LOVE the Bruins).........

Hi Linda, thank you so much for providing Ray Marr's name! I've been trying to locate someone in the New England area who might be willing to help me out with Martin info specific to this area. I'll search through the PMCA Directory and hopefully find some contact info for him.

My plan is to follow Dr. Drew's advice (the link that you referenced earlier), in that I was going to wait a few weeks until after the Tree Swallows and Blue Birds have established their nesting boxes, before I erect the PM gourds and play the dawn-song, etc. Our BB boxes are in the front of our house, a good distance from the TS and PM gourds, so I'm not too worried about them being pushed around by the TS's. Truth be told, I know it's a long-shot regarding being able to attract PM's, so I guess you would say that I am cautiously optimistic. With that said, I'd really rather prefer not to 'miss out' on the TS's. But like you've suggested, the best approach is to follow Dr. Drew's guidelines.

Thank you, once again for your help!
BTW, I'm very happy to hear that you're a B's fan! The Predators are playing well though!

D'Nese, Those are great photo's of your TS's! Sorry to hear that you lost one, but it still sounds like they had a very successful year. I'm going to try some gourds this year with a TS specific entrance plate (round hole 1 7/8 inch opening). I've also attached a small porch to the front.

Linda Reynolds · Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:21 pm

Scott, Ray Marr is an an abosolutely fabulous mentor and advisor. He knows New England, New England martins, and New England colonies like the back of his hand.

He has helped to establish and maintain many colonies in an area in which there were NONE..........

I hope you can make contact, and I hope he can assist. His passion and commitment is great.

Dolphins Fan · Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:43 pm

Linda no worries! I love hearing new information and I thank you for all your help. That link you gave is great and I think anyone like me that already has tree swallows and is looking into putting up a martin house should read this.

25-35 foot spacing seems to be critical. Too close and the tree swallows may chase away the martins and too far away the tree swallows may not defend the martin house from other tree swallows this is great information.

Too many darn Bruins fans in here though!

Dave Reynolds · Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:43 am

NJDEVILS --

Check out this web site.. http://www.drugfreeworkplace.com/~Dan/T ... GENCY.html

Dave

DAVE · Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:51 pm

I went to link that Kathy Posted,good pics. I didn't see Porches on the Houses. I have a few T.S here and I put porches on their boxes, of witch they seem to prefer. Can porches be used with this convigeration and if so how far below the hole should they be.
Thanks Dave

D'Nese · Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:07 pm

I have a few old gourds that I would like to offer to my TS's. We have 3 boxes they typically use but I've got these gourds so might as well use them. We have martins and had 2 pairs nest in the gourds I had offered on sheppards hooks. My concern is that the TS will favor the gourds and try to nest in the gourds we will have hanging under the T14. Advice or thoughts please.

Also, will TS use the entrances that are normally used by martins???? Really conflicted but want to attract more TS's. We have more and more each year and I love them almost as much as the martins.