Mites in Bo11

[~Ray~Gingerich]

The Bo11 seems to be an excellent gourd for ventilation purposes and the martins like them but I'm having some second thoughts on this gourd. Last season I noticed a problem with mite infestations in those gourds even though I used sevin dust under the nesting materials. I think the double walls provides a place of saftey away from the sevin dust . I had to do several nest changes and it was always the Bo11s most heavily infested. Did anyone else notice this or find a way to prevent it.

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

I would think that a natural gourd also provides a perfect place for mites to hide. However, I seldom need to apply a 2nd application of Sevin. So a couple questions: Did the sevin get wet, which makes it ineffective within about 10 days, and second, is the sevin possibly bad and too old which doesn't seem likely, as I have used some real old sevin and it worked fine. I have never found mites in the BO11s that I am using.

It seems to me that sparrows sometimes bring mites back to a colony, as I have found mites near the gourds that the sparrows tried to use. If no sparrows show up, then usually no mites show up

[Wendell Hansen-IA]

Same here, one of the main reason I got rid of mine. Also one of my landlords has replaced all 16 of his with super gourds. to meany places for mites to hide in the Bo11.

I tried them for two years the other landlord has tried them ever since they came on the market. Both of us got tired of fighting mites in this type of gourd. Only had to treat for mites one or two times on a one pice gourd, but the Bo11 was over and over.

[blanchar40]

I concur. The area between the liner is a collection are for all kinds of varmits. Bats & roaches while in storage. Small bees use them as hives while they are occupied. You can add spray foam but you must pay close attention to your rack arms(extra weight) if you have added tunnels and insulation. I had 8 BO11's and now I have none. I consider them to be the sorriest over hyped Purple Martin investment I ever made. By the time you make a BO11 useable you could have spent the some money on a top of the line gourd.

[~Ray~Gingerich]

Emil, the sevin was dry and worked fine in my other gourds and houses. It just seemed the bo11s had the worst problems even after changing all the nesting materials and applying a good dose of sevin underneath, I think that 1/2" space between the inner and outer walls provides a perfect zone of safety for the mites to hide in. I've been thinking about cutting a small access port on the outer wall so that area can be treated as well, don't know if that would work because it would only treat the bottom floor area of the air space.

[Louise Chambers]

eek, bats? I know lots of folks like them though - bo 11s, AND bats, that is

we have found black widows wintering in our gourds, now I check with a flashlight before reaching in - the webs are easy to spot. gloves a good idea too.

[Peggy Riley]

I certainly see what you are saying but I have never had a problem with
any of the double walled gourds. I have more than 50 of them.

I spray the diluted liquid in the compartment when I add nesting material
for the season. (Dec or Jan). Rarely do I have to treat any of my housing again during the season.

Peggy

[Virgil McCoy]

I found mites in my B011's as well when taking them down from storage a few weeks ago, however, I'm not going to get rid of them. They've been treated with liquid Seven which was blown into the bottom drain holes while the gourd was inverted. This should kill the existing critters and as the season begins I plan on putting powdered Seven under the nest material probably twice.

[Tim Stover]

take the vent cap off let sevin slide down the neck on the inside between the white part and the inner black piece and shake! shake! shake! shake your gordy mine still has it in it from last year

[Bill Pec]

Ray,

Good post.

My first choice for dealing with a mite infestation in a double walled gourd, or any gourd, containing baby birds is to remove the infested gourd and replace it with a clean gourd. This can be accomplished by keeping an extra gourd, of the same type, on hand. The extra gourd is prepared with clean nesting material and treated with Sevin dust so it can be quickly exchanged. This method of dealing with mites enables me to quickly solve the problem without endangering the baby birds and enables me to take my time and do a better job of disinfecting the affected gourd. The mite infested gourd is then submerged in a solution of bleach and hot water. After rinsing and drying the disinfected gourd can be used to replace another gourd. As long as the babies are not too old to be handled, this is my preferred method of dealing with mites. Rubber gloves and alcohol wipes help reduce the number of mites that get onto me during the process. I would be interested to hear how others deal with mite infestations when the baby birds are too old to handle.
Another methods to help prevent mites in double walled gourds is to place Sevin dust on the bottom of the empty nest cavity and then shake and swirl the gourd so the dust sifts down through the drain holes and into the space between the two walls. The inner walls of the nest cavity are then cleaned and the Sevin dust in the bottom of the nest cavity is replenished before adding clean nesting material.
For what it is worth, if the Bo11 has a cooling cap, access to the space between the walls can be accomplished by removing the cooling cap and looking down the chimney.

Bill

[Linda Reynolds]

Bill, first of all, by what you describe, you are doing a simple nest replacement, not treating mites. Nest replacement is already a recommended method of treatment.

Doubled walled gourds are a separate issue. They and their problems need to be addressed independently.

I respect your decision to do a nest replacement, but since you are already putting Sevin into nests, why are you not cutting to the chase and simply applying a 1/4 or 1/2 tsp inside the entry of the infested nest? Most everyone that uses it in this manner, reports mites are gone the next day.

Your process seems like an exercise in futility to me, and not only adds a lot of unnecessary work, and stress to nestlings, than when a dose of Sevin will do the trick. Most folks that do nest replacements do NOT use Sevin.

You are changing out gourds, interrupting nesting activity, and are accomplishing the same as you would by simply adding some Sevin to the existing nest.


Double walled gourds (that contain air space) are a completely other issue and needs to be addressed independently from a simple nest check mite infestation inside a single cavity gourd or house. This post was specifically asking about double walled gourds that provided an air space in which mites might (mite) grow.

[Virgil McCoy]

Does anyone know the life of Seven powder (potency) if it doesn't get wet ?

[Emil Pampell-Tx]

Virgil, I have used the same box for about 6 years, and it still worked good. I had to start a new box this year.

[Virgil McCoy]

Thanks Emil

[Carlton]

I am sorry to hear of this problem as the double wall construction seems like a great idea and many people seem to love that gourd design. I have never owned any of those gourds but always thought the insulated walls sounded very innovative.

[Bill Pec]

Ray,

First, let me apologize to you. I feel bad that your thread has been taken off course. I hope others will attempt to answer you question.

Linda,

If you carefully read my post you will discover that I did address Ray's question for dealing with mites in double walled gourds and am doing more than a simple nest replacement. I recommended the mite infestation be treated with Sevin, and the infested gourd be removed, sterilized and replaced with a clean gourd of the same type.
I'm sorry you feel my effort is an act of futility. I can assure you that the method described is the most effective method I have used to control mites in double walled gourds. It does take more work and don't worry about the process being unnecessary work for me. Much of what we do for the martins can be considered as unnecessary work by others. Just ask some of our neighbors and family members. For many of us it is not work but just another way to enjoy our hobby and an attempt to better manage and protect our martin colony. Just think of the many management practices we conduct that could be be considered work and an interruption to nesting activities and stressful for the martins. Does that mean we should give these practices up? Bottom line, this extra effort and management practices help save the lives of martins.
As for your concern about my process being more stressful on the baby martins than a traditional nest replacement this method is less stressful and requires less time than a traditional nest replacement. The traditional nest replacement requires the baby birds to be handle twice and to be placed in a container while their gourd is cleaned out and new nest materials added. Using the method I suggested the baby birds are handled only once and can be transferred directly into the new gourd and the gourd returned to the original location in less time then a traditional nest exchange takes, probably in less than a minute. This because the replacement gourd was already cleaned out and nest materials added in advance. This also makes the process less stressful for the martins waiting for me to raise the gourd rack and leave the area. Therefore, the process is less stressful on me too.
And finally, you advised me to add a half teaspoon of Sevin to the floor of the entrance to control mites in a double walled gourd. This is a practice I choose not to follow for two reasons. I have not been told it is an effective method for dealing with mites in double walled gourds. As others have mentioned, there are too many places for mites to hide in a double walled gourd. And I am against a method that advocates that insecticide should to be applied directly to the bird's feet and feathers because they are forced to come in direct contact with chemical. I prefer to sterilize the gourd and use Sevin under the nest materials, thereby reducing the risk of a direct application of pesticides to the birds. For those who are against the application of pesticides, the method of gourd replacement and sterilization might be more effective than the traditional nest replacement method in double walled gourds.
Is the method I provided for dealing with mite infestations in double walled gourds unconventional and not for everyone? Yes. Should the method be considered when searching for another effective way of dealing with mites in a double walled gourd? Yes. Does this method for dealing with mites in a double walled gourd deserves more than just criticism? ---!
Enjoy the open exchange of ideas and enjoy the passion,
Bill

[Keith]

The Bo-11 is the most Martin-friendly gourd I use because it seems to have the desirable features already designed into it that we are constantly trying to add to our Martin housing. I can certainly see however that the problem with mites could be a bigger issue with this gourd if mite treatment is ignored. It should not be that difficult to stay on top of the mite problem with treatment as this is what we would want to do with any housing I would think.
Keith

[Doug Martin - PA]

Ray,

I share your second thoughts on this particular gourd. I am glad you made this post. Personally IMO I also think a gourd with more vertical depth from the entrance to floor for a deeper bowl is more desirable to the Martins.

I would agree that sevin between the layers would probably work best. Problem is with a nest full of young the gourd would need to be removed from the rack and the neck cap pulled off. So Bill's gourd swap would make sense after the fact. I have quickly done identical gourd swaps successfully in the past for nest changes and it is easy. The one time however the distance from porch to entry was slighly different and it did create undo stress to the parents. I think any nest change does create some degree of stress.

I put up 4 of these gourds in great locations. None were used by the 17 pair that nested. We will see this year. I was also getting rain water trapped between the 2 layers somehow. I had to tilt the gourd to empty them out so I think another hole or two will be needed. I may need to seal the neck holes better as well.

Overall I thought this was a very well designed gourd initially. Just wish it was vertically deeper. Thanks for the heads up on mites as I was also worried about parasites living in the gap between.

Up here mites are only one problem, blowfly are a whole nother story that needs to be addressed even more. Sevin does not eliminate blowfly from taking over and that should be understood by northerners. Nest changes are the only effective way to deal with them right now. Sometimes 2 need done during the development of the young. They can quickly cause weak young and even death if not removed.

If blowfly larvae can also get between the layers, as they might... that will perhaps be another concern. I sure don't want to be too negative however on what appears to be a well thought out, and well designed product.

[Bill Pec]

Doug,

Thanks for the information about blowflies. I did not know Sevin would not control them. We have both blowflies and nest mites here in the southern part of Virginia. Poor birds.

Bill

[~Ray~Gingerich]

I'm not knocking the Bo11, I think it's well ventilated and very effect on hot days. I used them for 3 years without any problems at all until last season for some reason the mite population went crazy in some of them, the smaller mites were even crawling out of the outside wall seams, I wiped inside and outside with alcohol, changed out nest material, applied a heavy dose of sevin under the nests, they looked good for a few days but then had to do it all over again a week later.