Should Trying Landlords Have Round Entrances?

[Guest]

I have never researched this but are there any parts of the Country that don't have starlings? I know some landlords report not having a problem with them but are there any states with 0 starlings?

I doubt that there's many areas with zero starlings. Rural areas seem to be less infested, because starlings have adapted so well to being around humans. We have a couple of them here and there on our place. I'm guessing we killed a total of 6 or 7 last summer, and I didn't see another one from early summer until a couple of weeks ago.

[Kathy in VA]

I just eliminated my first European Starling of this season yesterday. A shotgun was faster than waiting for him to bond to a gourd and start nest-building to be trapped. He kindly dropped to the ground to feed so I didn't have to shoot holes in my pretty gourds. According to the range maps on this website http://www.birdzilla.com/birds/European ... ution.html it looks like starlings are pretty much everywhere in the U.S. I cannot sit by the opened window with gun in hand and watch my colony all day every day, and I imagine it only takes a few moments for a starling to come in and kill or throw out the martin nestlings (or kill the parents) and take over a cavity. I use some round entrance holes on horizontal gourds at the beginning of the nesting season to entice any starlings in my area to come and hang out, so I can either trap or shoot them--starlings seem to love my horizontal gourds. (And so did the martins--my one and only martin pair chose a plastic Troyer Horizontal gourd from a vast assortment of plastic and natural gourds with different shapes and different entrance holes.) I use round holes only on the side of my gourd rack that faces my home, so I can see who's going into them and can monitor insert traps. Then I can get rid of at least some of the dreadful villains before the martins arrive (less risk of trapping or shooting a martin at the same time.) If martins choose to nest in a cavity with a round hole, I will change out the entrance to an SREH after the eggs are laid. I did that successfully last year, so the martins could be protected. I made a special Training Tunnel that had a sliding plate that could be lowered gradually from the height of a round hole to the final standard height of a Conley II; after I made the final adjustment to factory spec's of the Conley II, the female popped right in, and the male hesitated, flew off, came back in a couple minutes, and went right in to his eggs. Soon they were zipping thru the SREH with no slowing down at all!
Before the starling started going in and out of the round-holed gourd, I watched him try to enter a Conley II (Starling-Resistant Entrance Hole)--and he could not get in! Hooray!
I feel that if I am going to draw martins to my property to nest here, it is my responsibility to do my best to protect them from harmful, non-native bird species and predators.

[pugsleyhall]

First of all, thank you all so much for the help. I have read the responses over and over (in between remodeling the floors of our house) and I trust all of you more than any book or article I have read on the subject. I have very few starlings but take care of the ones I see. I am going to do as suggested and have two of six gourds round and two of four house round and the rest sreh. I do have porches on the sreh gourds so I think that will help. I must try not to overthink and let them choose me if they wish and pout and sulk if they do not .

Thank you Friends

Melissa

[Matt F.]

That's a good setup you described Melissa.

There were some in this thread, that may have said things about folks that use round holes, that quite frankly, were a little offensive.

There have been many folks that have started colonies with all, starling resistant entrances. That is excellent.
There are also folks that have tried unsuccessfully for years to attract Martins, and are looking for as many options as possible, to attract that first pair. For some, that one option that made the difference, was offering a round hole, or two.
Often times, folks that already have a bustling colony, and have a nice, wide open site, and possibly live in a Martin rich area, forget how hard, stressful, depressing, maddening, etc. it can be, for folks who may have a lot of factors going against them (not many Martins, surrounded by only round hole equipped colonies, bad location (possibly tree encroached, etc)), to attract that first, founding pair.
For some, round holes can be a useful attraction tool.
Round holes, that can quickly be converted to a starling resistant entrance, once a pair has committed, is an especially useful attraction tool.

All that said, in reference to earlier postings in this thread, belittling, or implying that someone who offers round holes, is an irresponsible person, or lives in a haphazardly manner, is uncalled for.

[pugsleyhall]

Thanks everyone, I now have two gourds with round entrances and two house entrances round and will watch very carefully for the bad birds. You guys are right, they either choose your site or they don't. I have learned more from you guys than from any article or book on Martins.


Melissa

[Kathy in VA]

Melissa, hang in there and don't give up on trying to get martins to move in at your site. I don't want to discourage you, but I had to try for 11 years before I finally got them! But it was worth every penny of money and every hour of time and mental energy I spent, in order to finally have the thrill of watching martins carry pine needles into the gourd they chose to nest in. And wow, the elation of seeing that first egg! (Yes, of course I have pictures!) If you are getting martin visitors (I see you had some lookers last year), that is a good sign. There are tons of other things we can do that may help us increase our chances of getting the birds to stay, so if you aren't familiar with those things from reading the PMCA's wonderful website, magazine, and the Forum, just let us know and we can share some ideas. I have a 12-gourd rack and I offered them a big variety: different gourd materials--natural and plastic; assorted shapes--SuperGourd, Troyer Horizontal, Troyer Vertical; various entrance holes--round, Conley II, obround, crescent, some with porches and tunnels and some without...trying to please any martin that dropped by! Despite the fact that I had some natural gourds on the rack, my first martin pair chose a plastic gourd--a Troyer Horizontal with a round-holed tunnel and porch. There is a large Amish community not too far from where I live, and almost all of their housing has round holes. Of course, I was hoping the martins would know that the SREH's were safer from starlings and choose one of them, but they did not. But perhaps they DO know that the horizontally deeper gourd is safer from the reach of predators, and maybe they chose that gourd because of it. But I wanted to offer a large variety to increase my odds. You might want to try swapping out one of your gourds for a Troyer Horizontal, since it looks like from your profile that all your gourds are of one style--Bo-11 Plus. I started out with 12 matching gourds but I just keep buying and swapping out with new types, to offer them many choices. I think I'm up to almost enough gourds to stock 2 gourd racks, with all the spares in the garage! I love symmetry and wanted them all to look alike, but soon decided I wanted martins more than symmetry in my gourd rack! So I have a hodge-podge now--it's ugly, but I have martins! I am dying for my martins to come back (south central VA.) There are already 6 scout arrivals reported in VA, so my birds must be teasing me! But just keep on trying. We're cheering for you!

[pugsleyhall]

Kathy,

I need to add some variety to my gourds, I understand exactly what you mean and I can do that. Thanks for the help.

Melissa

[Kathy in VA]

You're very welcome! Maybe that will get even more visitors and perhaps some martins will move in for you!

[Carolyn C]

I started my PM house last year with all SREH entrances and didn't have any problems. Same this year. It just seems safer.

[Guest]

I believe in an area where martins are numerous or at the very least, common, you can and should use SREH entrances. I also believe that in areas where martins are rare or at least uncommon, a person should use round entrances to entice martins (SY's) to stay. And then, after your colony is established you start the gradual switch over to all SREH's. Just my belief without anything but anecdotal evidence and my own personal experience.

[pugsleyhall]

Yes, thank goodness the South is rich in Purple Martins. I have several active martin landlords only a few miles "as the crow flies" from me with both houses and gourds and all have round holes, they also have starlings, tree swallows and some sparrows. I don't want anything to happen to any birds I have so I am trying to do all I can to help them. I appreciate all the input and reassurance, you guys are all awesome!


Melissa

[Guest]

I started my PM house last year with all SREH entrances and didn't have any problems. Same this year. It just seems safer.

There is abolutely no doubt it is safer, and if I had any hopes that it would work here, and if there had been even an inkling of interest by the martins that visited last year, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Kathy in VA]

Liz,
What kind of SREH's did you try? I've heard some styles of SREH are easier for martins to negotiate than others, when they have never used them before. I'm sorry about the loss of your colony. I hope you will be able to get re-established soon. Based on your profile, if you still have only wooden housing, you really might want to try hanging a few gourds below the houses. I'd suggest some naturals or plastic Troyer Horizontals or SuperGourds. Sometimes, variety may be what draws in some birds. From what I've read and experienced, it appears there may be so much more to martin attraction than just the entrance hole--gourds vs. wooden box vs. metal box, natural vs. plastic gourd, tunnels vs. no tunnels, porches vs. no porches, additional perching space, pre-nests, availability of nesting materials nearby, Dawnsong use, decoys, mud around entrances, control of starlings and house sparrows, keeping other native birds from nesting in or dominating martin housing, what type of housing is available nearby and if that is filled to capacity, etc, etc. Best wishes!

[tcg]

Round holes, that can quickly be converted to a starling resistant entrance, once a pair has committed, is an especially useful attraction tool.

I was wondering about that. I've got 6 Bo-11 gourds that have both round and SREH entrances. The round entrances are plugged right now. Last year I watched as my visiting martins tried over and over to get in the SREHs and finally gave up and left. That's so frustrating. I had wondered about opening one or two of the round ones to see if I could attract a pair. If so, then plug the rounds and open the SREH. Will that work without causing the Martins to abandon the site?

[Carolyn C]

Mine just automatically go into the SREH's. I guess the little "half holels" is what you refer to as an SREH? I have not seen a problem.

[Kathy in VA]

tcg,
I don't have any Bo-11's, so I don't know exactly how they are made and how the fronts interchange (and can't tell from a web photo), and I don't know what shape SREH yours have, but whatever you do, don't plug up a gourd that martins have selected and are guarding, or trying to attract a mate from it, or are sleeping in it at night! It is my understanding that they bond to the location of the gourd and the compass direction that the hole faces; so if you are asking if you can plug up that gourd that has a round hole (that they are interested in), hoping they will move to another gourd that has an SREH hole--I wouldn't do that. They may abandon altogether. Although it's not 100% guaranteed, I have swapped out a tunnel on a horizontal gourd, changing from round hole with porch, to SREH (Conley II) hole with porch, but only after the eggs were laid--the martins are more committed to the gourd by that time. Can't say it will always work, but it did for me, the one time I tried it. I was leaving town last summer, and just couldn't bear to leave the martins--my very first--and only--pair of martins, and their eggs vulnerable to attacks by starlings, since I couldn't be here to protect them (with the gun.) I would keep things as similar as possible. I have read that the Conley II's are easier for inexperienced martins to enter than some of the other shapes of SREH's like crescents or excluders (bat-shaped). Some say that martins can get into any of the SREH's if they want to badly enough, but it can always be risky, since we can't make them want to! You might try adding some gourds with another style/shape SREH and see if they can get into them any easier, or are more attracted to try. If you are planning to use those round-holed gourds, I would go ahead and open them up now in hopes of attracting some martins. Just be sure to control starlings and house sparrows. Just maybe your martins would choose an SREH, but you will have options of attempting to swap to an SREH on their chosen gourd later if they don't. If the Bo-11 doesn't come with any shape of SREH besides a crescent, you could cut out the face plate to make a big opening, and mount a Conley II tunnel to the front of it. Just cut the inner opening completely out so that there is no foyer/lobby just inside the outer hole--or you may have entrapment problems. Or cut out the crescent and add a Conley II entrance plate over the hole. Also, check the dimensions on your crescents; sometimes factory-made openings are not precise and may truly be too small for the martins to get into. They must be 1 3/16" (one and three-sixteenths inches) high. Go to the PMCA home page and type Crescent Dimensions into the search box at the bottom and you will find lots of info on easy ways to accurately measure the opening.

[tcg]

tcg,
It is my understanding that they bond to the location of the gourd and the compass direction that the hole faces; so if you are asking if you can plug up that gourd that has a round hole (that they are interested in), hoping they will move to another gourd that has an SREH hole--I wouldn't do that.

Hi Kathy. No that's not exactly what I'm asking. I have the S&K Bo-11s with tunnels and porches. The tunnel actually has two entrance holes. One crescent and one round.

So I was wondering if you could attract the martins using the round hole and then plug it and force them to use the crescent hole that is just below it. Thanks for your reply!

[Kathy in VA]

tcg,
Ohhhhhhhhhhh...now I see what you mean. So sorry I did not understand what you meant. Thanks for the great picture...big help. That's an interesting device! I've never seen that kind of a tunnel. So it looks like by it's shape that the face-plate cannot be inverted--you just keep that front piece of plastic in the same position and either put the round plug into the round hole, or the crescent plug into the crescent hole and the martins would kind of have to jump up to get into the round hole, when the crescent is blocked off. Did it come with any instructions? You might try calling the manufacturer and see if that is part of their intent (starting with round and changing to crescent once the martins have bonded to the gourd), and if they have proven it will work. I would think you could plug the crescent hole til martins nest in the gourd (entering thru the round hole) and then unplug the crescent hole and plug up the round hole (after their eggs are laid), and hopefully they would get the idea, squat down, and struggle on inside the gourd thru the crescent hole, to reach their eggs. But I have no experience with that, so I couldn't say for sure. Maybe some other landlords have used that device and can tell us if it will work the way you propose. Good thing they put the crescent on the bottom, instead of the top, since part of the starling deterrence is in having the bottom of the entrance hole being almost flush with the porch, since starlings can't squat down on their long legs, as easily as martins can. I'd still recommend adding a couple other shapes of gourds, which also have other shapes of starling-resistance entrances besides crescent, to your gourd rack (just take down and store a couple of the gourds you have, and put other new gourds in their spots) to get your best chances of interest in the gourds, since you said martins weren't interested in these last year. When I had all crescent holes, trying to start a colony, I didn't have much interest shown by the martins, either. But some folks use strictly crescents and fill up an empty gourd rack with martins. Still, be sure to measure the crescents. Some people may get martins going in them easily without a struggle, because the holes can sometimes be too big--which means starlings are also going to be more likely to get thru them. Even at the correct dimension, they are only starling-resistant---not starling-proof. I sat and watched a starling get thru a crescent (fortunately there was not a martin nest in that gourd)...but he struggled for quite a while. I had thought I was going to get a big laugh watching him try to get inside and not be able to...however I wasn't laughing when I saw him finally get inside. Actually, I was really angry. How dare he do such a thing?! I started thinking that if it took him that long to get in, maybe it would take him a long time to get OUT! So I ran outside, grabbing a towel on the way out, lowered the gourd rack really fast, stuffed the towel in the entrance hole, and trapped him inside the gourd! And that was the end of that starling that was small enough to breach my SREH's. No more reproducing small starling genes by that bird! The porch on that gourd was 1/2" below the bottom of the crescent, and I have since learned from reading the Forum that many landlords feel it will deter starlings better if the porch is almost flush to no more than 1/4" below the bottom of the hole. So I am going to add some porch inserts to raise the level of those porches, since I think re-bending the metal mounting ridge would probably break it off. Keep us posted on what you do and how it works.

[Kathy in VA]

Ooops, tcg...sorry; I got it mixed up...it was Liz, in a previous post, that said her martins didn't show any interest in her housing with SREH's last year. You said you had lots of martins showing interest in yours but watched and they couldn't get thru. Sorry for my bad memory. You probably can ignore my suggestion of adding more variety to your housing, if you're already getting lots of visitors that are wanting to get into your gourds. Just try some variety in the SREH style.

[tcg]

That's an interesting device! I've never seen that kind of a tunnel. So it looks like by it's shape that the face-plate cannot be inverted--you just keep that front piece of plastic in the same position and either put the round plug into the round hole, or the crescent plug into the crescent hole and the martins would kind of have to jump up to get into the round hole, when the crescent is blocked off.

Correct. Lots of people have good things to say about the Bo-11 gourd. Not sure about the opinions on this tunnel though. It actually just occurred to me a few days ago to try the round hole. Last year I was dead-set on using SREH only and kind of forgot that the round hole was even on the tunnel. As I was putting them up this year I realized that I had the choice and then started wondering about whether I could start with one hole and then switch to the other.

I don't recall there being any instructions except some basic assembly instructions.

interest in the gourds, since you said martins weren't interested in these last year.

I'm not sure it was really lack of interest. I had multiple martins try to get in for several days straight. They'd stick their heads in and about half their bodies and then back out. I did measure the entrances with a caliper and also with a film canister and they seem fine. Since last year was my first year to try to get martins, it was exciting to see them come to my place at all but extremely frustrating to see them give up and leave.