AGAINST LOW ENTRY HOLES.

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BumBee
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:47 am
Location: Sugar Land, Texas

If I were to redo my PM housing I would make it what is suggested by Steve Kroenke.
I like the idea of deep nest cavity. Entrance can be made to where it will be difficult
for starlings to crawl in. When it comes to feeding the young, I think the parents can
feed all of them equally instead of the strongest hatchling blocks the weaker from
getting fed. The only drawback I can see with the deep cavity is keeping the nest
dry.
This is why my housing was made to have the entrance half an inch above the main
Floor and the nest insert an inch above the floor. I have to remove my own version
of SRE to expose a large slot opening that can accommodate three to four young PM
to stick their heads out at the same time. The trouble with this is if there are five or
more young PMs , mostly likely the weaker do not survive.
My Tunnel SRE:
Image
Scott D.- La
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Louisiana

Well Now...... Since a 600lb gorilla was mentioned...... I thought I would bust out some numbers from 09 season straight from my Martinwatch sheets. You never mentioned which gourds you are referring to as there are several cheap gourds on the market. I have seen pics of some real cheap plastic gourds however, the gourds I use can perform with any of them. By your profile, you may have some of these.


Super Gourds/16/+/1/ Excluder Gourd
Eggs Layed/66/ Hatched/63/ Fledge/57

S&K Combo Plus Gourds/16/
Eggs Layed/74/ Hatched 70/ Fledge/68

Troyer Horizontals/18
Eggs Layed/69/ Hatched/62/ Fledge/55

S&K Bo-11/15/+ 1 S&K Bo-9
Eggs Layed/67/ Hatched 66/ Fledge/63

S&K Bo Villa/5
Eggs Layed/14/ Hatched/9 Fledge/9

Wood House (homemade) 6 cavities
Eggs Layed/21/ Hatched/20/ Fledge/20

Coates Aluminum/6 cavities
Eggs Layed/26/ Hatched/25/ Fledge/24

Totals/337 Eggs/Hatched 315/ Fledged 296/

I am a stickler for accuracy, and you can see the fledge rates which are all pretty close. The landlord clearly makes the difference. The best gourds in the world are crap without a good landlord watching over them. The point is, you need to be clear and accurate about what you say on these forums as things can get out of hand real quick with misunderstandings. These numbers would be much different if I did not guard them from the Hawks as well. Hope this was educational for you blanchar 40 as many birds can be fledged with all sorts of equipment. I have absolutely no financial stake in S&K and always try to play neutral and fair. I am also a PMCA member.
blanchar40
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:13 am
Location: alabama/ozark

Emil Pampell-Tx wrote:John, I use longer tunnels on all of my gourds, and I never have a problem with fallouts. Even when my gourds were on wires, I never had a fallout problem, and I never did hang my gourds swinging from front to back since I started to use tunnels about 8 years ago. Now all of my gourds are stationary. I suppose that fallouts are a function of how the equipment and gourd racks are made and how the gourds are hung.

It just doesn't appeal to me to hang gourds by wires where there are higher winds, that seems like the wrong way to hang them.

I will again emphasise that martins love tunnels and porches, and then mounting the gourds stationary solves all the negatives that have been posted. There are better ways to do things, and then there are ways that are not so good. Along this line, there is no uniformity in hanging gourds among the manufacturing companies. There are some gourd racks available where the gourds and poles match each other. This is a desirable way to purchase equipment.

Basically now there are so many mismatches, and I feel sorry for the people that are not handy with tools, most of the equipment made and sold leads to mismatches. I can modify it to make it work, but there again, I have the tools and equipment to do so. By mismatches, I mean that its difficult to modify them so that the gourds do not swing, so that the gourds do not hang at an angle, often the arms sag after the gourds are hung, and the tunnels are not easy to mount on the gourds. It is especially a problem with new landlords

About the fallouts, at my place, most of the fallouts should not be called fallouts, they are PULLED OUT or KNOCKED OFF by other martins. When the babies fledge, the first one flies, and the second is sitting outside or near the entrance, then other young martins go there and try to encourage them to fly, they pull on them, and try to knock them off the porches.
Emil

I totally agree with everything in this statement. Would you make a gourd recommendation for a disabled farmer that I have convinced to go convert to SREH plastic? Just to get him started it has to be simple and hang by wire. I can snug the wire up so there will be minimal swinging.
Emil Pampell-Tx
Posts: 6743
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:26 pm
Location: Tx, Richmond (SW of Houston)
Martin Colony History: First started in Gretna, La in 1969 with a small homemade house, have had martins ever since at 2 different homes in Texas

No recommendations, I will quit on this thread.....Its difficult to make recommendations without stepping on someones toes...
PMCA Member, 250 gourds, 6 poles, 2traps
Scully
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Texas/San Antonio

I haven't seen any consistent differences of results with gourd styles either, and we even set up our gourds for comparisons that way for a number of years.

We started with Carrols (8", round hole), have compared them to crescent SREH Naturelines, crescent porched SREH Big Bos, same thing in a Big Bo with tunnels, Modified Excluder Supergourds, Natural gourds with S&K crescent porched tunnels, little rectangular Bo gourds with crescent porched tunnels, S&K Combo Gourds, and even a monster Whistle Gourd.

Never saw a consistent difference with any.

With the exception of the cheapest Heath offerings it is hard to go wrong with most gourds today.

We run our Modified Excluder Supergourds and our Crescent Naturelines without porches.

I will say the Modified Excluder entrance is about the easiest SREH I have seen for a martin to enter.

I hear great things about Troyer Horizontals though we have never used them.

So.... recommendations....


I don't believe you can go wrong with Supergourds, they set an early standard of excellence that hasn't dimmed with time.

Cost effectiveness..... the Big Bo gourd. Inexpensive but carefully designed (I believe Chuck Abare had a hand in the design).

YMMV

Mike Scully
blanchar40
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:13 am
Location: alabama/ozark

Scully wrote:I haven't seen any consistent differences of results with gourd styles either, and we even set up our gourds for comparisons that way for a number of years.

We started with Carrols (8", round hole), have compared them to crescent SREH Naturelines, crescent porched SREH Big Bos, same thing in a Big Bo with tunnels, Modified Excluder Supergourds, Natural gourds with S&K crescent porched tunnels, little rectangular Bo gourds with crescent porched tunnels, S&K Combo Gourds, and even a monster Whistle Gourd.

Never saw a consistent difference with any.

With the exception of the cheapest Heath offerings it is hard to go wrong with most gourds today.

We run our Modified Excluder Supergourds and our Crescent Naturelines without porches.

I will say the Modified Excluder entrance is about the easiest SREH I have seen for a martin to enter.

I hear great things about Troyer Horizontals though we have never used them.

So.... recommendations....


I don't believe you can go wrong with Supergourds, they set an early standard of excellence that hasn't dimmed with time.

Cost effectiveness..... the Big Bo gourd. Inexpensive but carefully designed (I believe Chuck Abare had a hand in the design).

YMMV

Mike Scully
Thanks

I have both the supergourd & exluder w/crescent in my colony & I like them both. I will have convince the old man to spend a little more.
Scott D.- La
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Louisiana

I think since the individual is disabled, the rack should be given a lot of thought so it can be handled easily by him. The gourds are not as important as long as they are mounted properly to solve the problems you are experiencing. Wire mounting if done improperly can cause excessive sway, tilt, and allow water to easily enter the gourd. Some gourds have 3/8 square holes intended to be mounted on a square rod. This keeps them level and stationary. I have worked with 3/8 square rod and it's easily bent with a 1/2 EMT bender and easily adaptable to homemade rack's and could be adapted to commercial racks I suspect. I have sucessfully used a combination of 1/2in. EMT and 3/8 square rod on my TV antenna rack. In the past, I have used allthread and 2in. conduit clamps to mount gourds properly. I am sure we could figure a solution if you are willing to share the type racks that are to be used. I would be happy to email some pics to you Blanchar40 if you desire some ideas.
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